[RD] Love

[dusters]

Its antonym - apathy says much

How much care do we invest into our loved ones to make them feel loved?

Has anyone ever told you: "Thanks for loving me!" ?


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How many people greet you on your birthday? How many people know your birthday's date and namesday's date by heart?

How many people know your phone number by heart?

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So much is being untold due to neglect.

If you have something nice to say to those you love, say it!

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Thread inspired by

"Love" by Hanne Orstavik

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/35210752-love?from_search=true&qid=2mxy1Oei1b&rank=1

A book where mom forgets about her son.

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Discussion -

How do we make people feel loved? How to love your parents, significant other, children? What do you especially do due to love? Not because you feel like you MUST do it, but because you think it would make them feel good.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

I feel like that it is a bad expectation to require unconditional love for or from family and close friends. I'm not saying it is a bad thing but you shouldn't expect it.

 

[dusters]

I agree, expectations can lead to pain and other emotions which can be stressful.

However, even with conditional love, how do we define

1 what is taken for granted? (mom providing food for her infant),

2 what is extra (sacrificing your own time to provide something for other),

3 what is the medium (sacrificing only a bit, because while being a parent, you are still an individual instead of being mom/dad 24/7)

Same can apply to romantic or platonic love with corresponding examples.

 

[Narz]

On the subject of love I'll add my two cents : Twining one's most potent loving energy to ONLY (or mostly) sexual partners causes untold amounts of suffering. Try to love your friends equally (or nearly equally) to your "lovers", if your lover can't handle this philosophy find a better one.

I think the glorification of romantic love is done on purpose by those in power because the bonds between sex-partners is so fragile and much less threatening to the system than brotherly(sisterly) love.

How many people say "I just want someone to love me" when they already have friends. What they mean perhaps is an individual who will tend to their physical, sexual and co-dependency needs.

Not to discount the power of such cravings, I have them strongly, I feel it's such a waste of tenderness & fine flesh for me to be celibate but like any craving the wanting part of my brain lies to me about how much satisfaction I'll receive (to realize wanting & liking are seperate parts of the brain is a big part of wisdom)

 

[civvver]

in this day and age why would anyone remember a phone number or a birthday when it's all in our phones and digital calendars?

 

[dusters]

Because if you use something very often and you celebrate that birthday every year you start to remember it. It holds enough emotions to be held in long term memory. There are few/several friends whose birthday dates I know by heart. Usually the ones I have known for at least 5 years.

 

[civvver]

I still disagree. Some people just aren't good with dates, that's why we write stuff down. I don't think it implies any more or less love towards a person. As long as you look in your calendar and don't miss their birthday.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I'm not convinced truly-by-definition-unconditional love exists in present form. There are memories with friends/family members I will always cherish, but I can at least envision some things they could physically do in principle that would leave any fond consideration of them permanently in history. I expect if I were to turn into a monster who commits horrible acts overnight that their opinion would similarly change. But if I accept that possibility despite that I don't anticipate it ever happening, this in principle rules out "unconditional".

Past love is unconditional, but that's true of most things in the past...

However, even with conditional love, how do we define

1 what is taken for granted? (mom providing food for her infant),

2 what is extra (sacrificing your own time to provide something for other),

3 what is the medium (sacrificing only a bit, because while being a parent, you are still an individual instead of being mom/dad 24/7)

Same can apply to romantic or platonic love with corresponding examples.

These are good questions, and we answer them with how we choose to live.

 

[Commodore]

in this day and age why would anyone remember a phone number or a birthday when it's all in our phones and digital calendars?

What happens when you don't have your phone on you and you need to make a call? For example: You're stuck on the side of the road somewhere, you forgot your phone or it's dead, and you are using a helpful stranger's phone to call a friend to pick you up. The helpful stranger isn't going to have the person you need to call in their contacts list so you are going to have to remember what number to dial.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

I'm not convinced truly-by-definition-unconditional love exists in present form. There are memories with friends/family members I will always cherish, but I can at least envision some things they could physically do in principle that would leave any fond consideration of them permanently in history. I expect if I were to turn into a monster who commits horrible acts overnight that their opinion would similarly change. But if I accept that possibility despite that I don't anticipate it ever happening, this in principle rules out "unconditional".

And yet serial killers can be loved by their moms who will never believe they did anything wrong, evidence be damned. I agree with you that I personally don't think I could experience that level of unconditional with my love but it can and does happen to others.

 

[Synobun]

And yet serial killers can be loved by their moms who will never believe they did anything wrong, evidence be damned. I agree with you that I personally don't think I could experience that level of unconditional with my love but it can and does happen to others.

That's not love. That's stupidity.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

I really liked the first and second seasons of Love but the third was just this saccharine-sweet suckfest that I couldn't get into. That season ruined the show for me and it came out of my rotation entirely. T

 

[TheMeInTeam]

And yet serial killers can be loved by their moms who will never believe they did anything wrong, evidence be damned. I agree with you that I personally don't think I could experience that level of unconditional with my love but it can and does happen to others.

This is one of those things that's tough to argue, because none of us can ever really verify precisely how another person feels outside our own perspective.

And while "serial killer" is a pretty reasonable condition, if we're operating on the assumption of a non-rational/coherent person it's one possible condition in a sea of possible things that might influence love. Which is itself difficult to detect/verify/separate from alternative forms of attachment using independent observations of objective criteria. So do we *really* know that mother still loves her serial killer son? I'd say you're probably correct in at least some of these cases, but I think we're stuck saying "probably", and certainly haven't exhausted all potential love-cessation conditions!

It's actually kind of annoying to try to define love in the first place. I can define it for my own purposes, and you for yours, but I suspect if we were to do that for everyone we'd get different answers pretty often. Pretty rough starting point for attempting to pin something down.

Fortunately we don't need that to enjoy other peoples' company.

 

[dusters]

It's actually kind of annoying to try to define love in the first place. I can define it for my own purposes, and you for yours, but I suspect if we were to do that for everyone we'd get different answers pretty often. Pretty rough starting point for attempting to pin something down.

Fortunately we don't need that to enjoy other peoples' company.

I mean that is one of the reasons why I created this topic.

Say, for example, one person feels unloved, but the other person insists that she does actually love the first person. Their definitions are totally different so they have a conflict and they split up their romantic relationship. How do we use rational arguments in situations like this?

 

[Moriarte]

in this day and age why would anyone remember a phone number or a birthday when it's all in our phones and digital calendars?

I keep all the numbers pinned in my head. Helped me more than once in situations, like Commodore is describing. Also, a few people on my path interpreted this as a sign of affection/extra attention when they found out I know their number by heart. As would I, I suppose. It’s a nice touch... in this day and age.

 

[Hygro]

I mean that is one of the reasons why I created this topic.

Say, for example, one person feels unloved, but the other person insists that she does actually love the first person. Their definitions are totally different so they have a conflict and they split up their romantic relationship. How do we use rational arguments in situations like this?

I had a girlfriend who didn’t feel loved regardless of how much she was loved and there wasn’t much for everyone to do except keep loving her despite her internal pain.

 

[dusters]

I had a girlfriend who didn’t feel loved regardless of how much she was loved and there wasn’t much for everyone to do except keep loving her despite her internal pain.

You could have asked what would make her feel loved.

 

[MaryKB]

I feel like that it is a bad expectation to require unconditional love for or from family and close friends. I'm not saying it is a bad thing but you shouldn't expect it.

I don't feel that conditional love is real love. I can't imagine thinking "I will love you, so long as you ... " and whatever. Love is love, it's independent of your approval of someone's actions.

Really, I feel you should love everyone unconditionally. Even people like the Donald. You can be very angry with them, or their actions, or whatever, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't love them. When someone's hurting another, it's because that person is hurting and feeling pain, and ultimately the only way you can help them is through love. Sometimes our bonds are stronger, and it's easier for a mother to love her murderer son than it is to love the man who murdered her son. But I feel if you can't love everyone, then you really can't truly love anyone.

And your love is shown by your actions, not your declarations. So you can tell your partner you love her, but if you don't show her love then you can't expect her to feel that from you.

But of course there's a difference between "love" and "in love." You will fall in and out of love, that's natural, and yes you can really be heels-over-head for someone who then later hurts you so badly that you can't be in love with him anymore.

I don't know why you'd ask about using "rational arguments" ... love is emotional, not intellectual.

 

[dusters]

I don't feel that conditional love is real love. I can't imagine thinking "I will love you, so long as you ... " and whatever. Love is love, it's independent of your approval of someone's actions.

Really, I feel you should love everyone unconditionally. Even people like the Donald. You can be very angry with them, or their actions, or whatever, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't love them. When someone's hurting another, it's because that person is hurting and feeling pain, and ultimately the only way you can help them is through love. Sometimes our bonds are stronger, and it's easier for a mother to love her murderer son than it is to love the man who murdered her son. But I feel if you can't love everyone, then you really can't truly love anyone.

And your love is shown by your actions, not your declarations. So you can tell your partner you love her, but if you don't show her love then you can't expect her to feel that from you.

But of course there's a difference between "love" and "in love." You will fall in and out of love, that's natural, and yes you can really be heels-over-head for someone who then later hurts you so badly that you can't be in love with him anymore.

I don't know why you'd ask about using "rational arguments" ... love is emotional, not intellectual.

I agree with what you said here. All of it actually. But the idea is that we have to understand when we feel that emotion of love. How it comes and how it stays.

For example, there are some times I realise I could get a gift for my gf across the town (gift is across the town, gf lives with me), travelling maybe 2-3 hours just to see her smile for 10 minutes. Rational mind might say that the "profit" is little, but heart tells me that I'm in love and that's a normal thing to do. Even if I may dislike using public transport for 2 hours.

 

[MaryKB]

Ewwwww ... the "profit" *shudders*

Yes, that's what I mean about love being emotional and not intellectual I've met so many people who think love means "I'll give you this if you give me that," but in my mind that's the farthest thing from love.

I try my best, but sometimes it's really hard with people who've hurt me. You don't have to trust them, or want to spend time with them, but still be there to help when they're hurting, if I'm making sense?