[GS] Māori Discussion Thread

[bite]

Okay time for me to sleep, please don't find any game shattering detail that we missed while I am gone

 

[nzcamel]

I rather get them as center building from ancient tech, on cities near a body of water or coast, than from turn 1 just for settled.

Well, that ability isn't new to Civ - as soon as you have your first ship it can sail through your city centre. It's just seeing a nicely carved out channel is unimmersive.

According to Ed:

So the Maori will never have environmentalist as their secret agenda then one hopes!

 

[ferretbacon]

Expectations: Please Firaxis give me Canals. I've never wanted anything so much.

Reality: I take it back, those graphics are horrible and wouldn't look that way. This isn't immersive at all.

Me: Well those canal cities literally are one now.

I think this could be fixed by making the city canal a building that you have to construct, like the monument or granary. It could be placed at an appropriate point in the tech tree.

 

[DeepKing]

My understanding is that Maori can't chop wood or harvest wheat. Of course, they can still build districts on forest tiles for example. It would be ridiculous if they could not.

It seems far more likely that they cant harvest wheat, rice, stone, copper, fish, crabs, and deer (I might be missing one), but can chop woods and jungle tiles.

 

[Stringer1313]

Wow, I hope these OP abilities (which are very welcome!) portend an overhaul of existing Civs' abilities, some of which are lackluster.

 

[WillowBrook]

Also, it has to be said … another culture bomb? seriously?

I like this one - I see it (along with the extra food from the fishing boats) as getting food from the tiles adjacent to the sea resource that other civs can't get, so the Maori get to claim those tiles for themselves.

My understanding is that Maori can't chop wood or harvest wheat. Of course, they can still build districts on forest tiles for example. It would be ridiculous if they could not.

Chopping is different from harvesting - the bulldozer vs the scythe in the UI. So you can't harvest bonus resources as the Maori, but I'm pretty sure you'll still be able to take out forest and rainforest.

I'm thinking that with the coastal bias and incentive to keep forests (at least for a while?) there's a good chance Maori lands will have high appeal and be ripe for seaside resorts and national parks.

Now, will we be able to create national parks that include water tiles? How about a different orientation besides diamond?

Also oasis, hills and floodplains.

Not hills.

 

[Tiger Genocide]

My first impression is that they are likely a Tier 2 civ. T3 might be appropriate as well, once all the other leaders are released, but these guys are only situationally strong. On a fractal or islands map, they will be a beast. The amount of food they can grow with fisheries is very powerful like someone else mentioned. You would have to turn off the Improved Sea Resources mod if you want to play with them or against them. They may also be quite strong on a Continents or even Pangaea map if they start on a corner off the coast.

They will be good for early game domination. Their strong start is alot like taking the game difficulty down a notch. A deity game is going to feel like an Immortal or Emperor game. With those extra hammers, you could rush those warriors out and some archers and swallow the closest neighbor with more breathing room than usual. If they take the forge pantheon, it will be even nastier. A real pain train indeed like Sumeria.

They might be geared towards culture victory, but that will be a slow one with no writing. I think you can forget about a Turn ~200 culture victory with no writing. Culture victories need accumulated tourism as early as you can get it. One reason why Kongo and Russia are so good at culture victory is because they get writers very fast and often. The Maori extra tourism modifier of +2 comes only at flight. That's too late to be worth the lack of great writings. I suppose you could go to war at take other people's writings but you can do that with all other civs.

 

[Guandao]

I understand not being able to harvest resources, and I agree that is a steep yet balancing penalty. However I don't understand why they can't have great writers? I mean, beyond just trying to balance the civ. Is there any cultural reason the Maori can't have great writers? Beyond the fact they never wrote anything before the arrival of europeans? But if that is the only reason that could apply to most Native Americans too right? But they are able to get great writers? Just a little confused.

Same goes for the Kongo, they never wrote before the Europeans arrived. Yet they get increased GW generation.....

Native Americans did have forms of writing before the arrival of the Europeans though, didn't they?

Nope, only in Mesoamerica did true writing systems existed.

 

[ehecatzin]

My first impression is that they are likely a Tier 2 civ. T3 might be appropriate as well, once all the other leaders are released, but these guys are only situationally strong. On a fractal or islands map, they will be a beast. The amount of food they can grow with fisheries is very powerful like someone else mentioned. You would have to turn off the Improved Sea Resources mod if you want to play with them or against them. They may also be quite strong on a Continents or even Pangaea map if they start on a corner off the coast.

They will be good for early game domination. Their strong start is alot like taking the game difficulty down a notch. A deity game is going to feel like an Immortal or Emperor game. With those extra hammers, you could rush those warriors out and some archers and swallow the closest neighbor with more breathing room than usual. If they take the forge pantheon, it will be even nastier. A real pain train indeed like Sumeria.

They might be geared towards culture victory, but that will be a slow one with no writing. I think you can forget about a Turn ~200 culture victory with no writing. Culture victories need accumulated tourism as early as you can get it. One reason why Kongo and Russia are so good at culture victory is because they get writers very fast and often. The Maori extra tourism modifier of +2 comes only at flight. That's too late to be worth the lack of great writings. I suppose you could go to war at take other people's writings but you can do that with all other civs.

They feel like civ V Spain, only less gamey, in the sense that you've got time to find a good spot to settle and get population and worker as catch up. I imagine the ideal with Maori would be to rapid expand early game to get as many feature rich areas and natural wonders as you can, they will probably be very good at sniping coastal CS with natural wonders.

I imagine a better idea with them than just straight up domination would be to play the diplomatic game, Maori will surely have a foothold in every continents and a navy to back it, you could go around the world liberating CS and civs to rank up those diplo favor and use them to control the late game in your favor.

 

[Jewelrunna]

I think they mentioned Egypt is getting bonus fertility from floods? (needed and it suits them). Maybe Norway could get increased efficency from Sea trade?

Wait, that’s their solution? That seems like their bonuses are really gonna contradict each other. You get bonus yields from rivers, but you want to build things that negate tile yields? Hopefully they improve the percentages on the ability as well...

Back on subject for the Maōri though, man oh man am I excited! Polynesia was my favorite Civ to play in Civ V, and this just seems like a more fleshed out version of that Civ. Scotland is my current favorite in VI, but that seems subject to change.

 

[Kjimmet]

Okay time for me to sleep, please don't find any game shattering detail that we missed while I am gone

Oh, we will - I mean - we WON'T find anything

 

[Josephias]

Love that they start the game in the ocean. That is super unique and quite unlike anything else in the game so far.

Unles you count Colonization as part of the series

 

[Siptah]

I hope they won't stay the only civ that comes with techs researched at the beginning. I think Egypt could easily be buffed when giving them pottery and irrigation for example.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

I hope they won't stay the only civ that comes with techs researched at the beginning. I think Egypt could easily be buffed when giving them pottery and irrigation for example.

It could be a fairly easy way to balance some civs.

 

[Ivan Hunger]

Would be funny if they started in an inland sea on a pangea map.

You ever play as Indonesia on an inland sea map? Some of the craziest starts I've ever gotten.

 

[ehecatzin]

I hope they won't stay the only civ that comes with techs researched at the beginning. I think Egypt could easily be buffed when giving them pottery and irrigation for example.

Or being able to work floodtiles even if it has a wonder on it.

 

[nzcamel]

It could be a fairly easy way to balance some civs.

It would be an easy fix; but I hope they don't leap at that.

 

[Ivan Hunger]

So the Maori will never have environmentalist as their secret agenda then one hopes!

The game already works this way. Leaders have a blacklist of secret agendas that they can never get. Specifically ones that are either the same as their historical agenda or the exact opposite.

 

[Bechhold]

You ever play as Indonesia on an inland sea map? Some of the craziest starts I've ever gotten.

Also one of the dumbest Firaxis attempts at a resource feature ever implemented.

 

[BarbarianHunter]

I saw this Chichen Itza image post on Reddit and it got me thinking...

Spoiler :

I wonder if the Maori can scour the ocean looking for the perfect spot, build a Marae, beat the AI to guilds and build the Chichen Itza. Now those would be some yields!