[GS] Māori Discussion Thread

[Eagle Pursuit]

Uh. If the Maori conquer a city with an Amphitheater with Great Works of Writing in the slots and the Amphitheater becomes a Marae, where do the Great Works of Writing go?

 

[Tiger Genocide]

They feel like civ V Spain, only less gamey, in the sense that you've got time to find a good spot to settle and get population and worker as catch up. I imagine the ideal with Maori would be to rapid expand early game to get as many feature rich areas and natural wonders as you can, they will probably be very good at sniping coastal CS with natural wonders.

I imagine a better idea with them than just straight up domination would be to play the diplomatic game, Maori will surely have a foothold in every continents and a navy to back it, you could go around the world liberating CS and civs to rank up those diplo favor and use them to control the late game in your favor.

The Diplomatic Victory remains to be seen. We have no idea how efficient that is. Domination is still the most efficient way to play Civ6, especially early game on hard difficulties.

Don't be surprised that if you can still wipe out an entire 8 player map on any difficulty before any World Congress can sanction you into economic hell causing you to disband your army or restart the whole game.

Either way The Maori has both fast/efficient methods to win and slow immersion/role playing ways to win.

 

[Siptah]

Uh. If the Maori conquer a city with an Amphitheater with Great Works of Writing in the slots and the Amphitheater becomes a Marae, where do the Great Works of Writing go?

Poof?

would be nice if you could at least get a prompt to store one in your palace.

 

[Giskler]

So the Maori will never have environmentalist as their secret agenda then one hopes!

lol, Kupe will really hate choppers then

 

[MrRadar]

I hope they won't stay the only civ that comes with techs researched at the beginning. I think Egypt could easily be buffed when giving them pottery and irrigation for example.

Yes, bring back different starting techs for all of them! That was such a nice feature to add distinctiveness to civs, and getting rid of them was another sin committed in Civ V.

 

[Siptah]

By the way, it clearly says "starts on an ocean tile", so no inland sea, except for on the inland sea maps, where the inland sea has ocean tiles.

 

[Turrdy]

Not being able to chop is a very hard drawback which in a way justifies the bonuses they get, imo.
btw: does "Ressources can not be harvested" include terrain features like forests, jungle, swamps and the such?

 

[nzcamel]

Not being able to chop is a very hard drawback which in a way justifies the bonuses they get, imo.
btw: does "Ressources can not be harvested" include terrain features like forests, jungle, swamps and the such?

No.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Not being able to chop is a very hard drawback which in a way justifies the bonuses they get, imo.
btw: does "Ressources can not be harvested" include terrain features like forests, jungle, swamps and the such?

No, it only includes bonus resources like stone and rice.

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

I sense some power creep going on...

Power creep is always an issue, and gets worse the more expansions get added.

That said, for the most part, it looks to me like the dev team took care to balance the Maori's bonuses with offsetting disadvantages, and vice versa.

• Start in the ocean: get a grab bag of offsetting bonuses to jump start your first city and make it viable (through the Palace buff) no matter where you make landfall.
• Potentially dependent on ocean travel: embarked units have faster movement and +5 combat so pirates aren't as much of a threat
  
• No harvesting resources: boost to forests and rainforests (so you have less incentive to chop them, too)
• No Great Writers: big Tourism boost after Flight

It'll take a while to figure out how much of the above is a buff versus a nerf versus neutral (and that may vary from game to game). When you strip away the pluses and minuses, you're left with the following as their pure bonuses, to be compared to the bonuses received by other civs:

• Two free starting techs (that you would rarely research early, so really this is a mid-game boost, saves you a few turns of science production catching up on this part of the tech tree)
• +1 Food from fishing boats (the least useful yield as of R&F, but we'll see if this changes in GS; always good for your first city anyway)
• Culture bomb from fishing boats (this will most often grab sea tiles, possibly even ocean tiles, so situationally useful)
• Unique building provides extra Culture (always valuable) and Faith (a good currency for a lot of different things), but how much it provides is map dependent
• Unique unit: this looks god tier, but we haven't seen the production cost yet.

My initial impression is that the most powerful use of the Maori will be as what we typically associate with Vikings: a fast moving fleet of unstoppable warriors who will storm your shores and capture your cities. The initial wave will fortify to hold off your reinforcements while the second wave follows up to overwhelm you. (EDIT: in particular, the Vikings they most resemble are the Normans, who captured large parts of coastal Europe from the north to the Mediterranean.)

 

[Gedemo]

I can imagine my face when I'll see their settlers arriving on a beach near my capital

 

[Harlequeen]

Hide in the corner of the map to prevent a domination victory.

 

[Sostratus]

Unique unit: this looks god tier, but we haven't seen the production cost yet.

I noticed the Toa have 40 base strength. They build a special fort. They are legionaries riding varu elephants. And they said Maori wasn't a cultural blob civ!
Especially with Pa healing, why give them the extra base strength? Did they really need it? Effectively +9 swordsman is lunacy no matter how you slice it. Beating knights outright at oligarchy.

I love the woods and fish boosts. That's really clever. I think the Unique Amphi is way OP though. No way those bonuses shouldn't get halved immediately. +1 prod and +2culture and +2 faith for having a woods +Amphitheatre in the classical era is just crazy.
Can't wait to see the Chichen/Marae screencaps though. Oh boy!

That said, they seem to have a very neat opening. I'm glad they are willing to experiment!

 

[UWHabs]

Although on the flipside, how many games will they die before settling their first city? Could see them go try to land, only to see a barbarian next door and wipe them out.

 

[pgm123]

Same goes for the Kongo, they never wrote before the Europeans arrived. Yet they get increased GW generation.....

Nope, only in Mesoamerica did true writing systems existed.

Only Mesoamerica had writing. The Eastern Woodlands of North America conveyed information through wampum, but that was generally restricted to diplomatic contexts. (Simple painted patterns would ask for peace and friendship, while more complicated patterns would describe alliances and enemies and the familiar relationships between the various parties.) In the Andes, they used patterns of knots. I assume this was also used in diplomatic contexts, but I'm not sure. It was definitely used for messengers. I don't believe either were used for literature. The closest might be a wampum belt that represented a the story of Hiawatha, but a storyteller would still have to know the story through oral tradition.

 

[Scaramanga]

Uh. If the Maori conquer a city with an Amphitheater with Great Works of Writing in the slots and the Amphitheater becomes a Marae, where do the Great Works of Writing go?

They would still exist. No Great Writer points just means the person can't spawn in Maori-land.

 

[pgm123]

I noticed the Toa have 40 base strength. They build a special fort. They are legionaries riding varu elephants. And they said Maori wasn't a cultural blob civ!
Especially with Pa healing, why give them the extra base strength? Did they really need it? Effectively +9 swordsman is lunacy no matter how you slice it. Beating knights outright at oligarchy.

I love the woods and fish boosts. That's really clever. I think the Unique Amphi is way OP though. No way those bonuses shouldn't get halved immediately. +1 prod and +2culture and +2 faith for having a woods +Amphitheatre in the classical era is just crazy.
Can't wait to see the Chichen/Marae screencaps though. Oh boy!

That said, they seem to have a very neat opening. I'm glad they are willing to experiment!

I have to imagine the Toa will get nerfed at some point, possibly before release. It seems so strong that it's going to pop on play testing.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

They would still exist. No Great Writer points just means the person can't spawn in Maori-land.

I'm talking about Great Works that have already been generated by a Great Writer.

 

[Siptah]

They would still exist. No Great Writer points just means the person can't spawn in Maori-land.

But so far, you cannot have GWoA that aren't placed anywhere. Artifacts are placed as soon as you decide from whom it is and all others are placed on creation. I can't imagine you have GWoW sitting around but not stored in a building somewhere. How would you even access it to place it later when you might have the Apadana or Bolshoi?

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I hope they won't stay the only civ that comes with techs researched at the beginning. I think Egypt could easily be buffed when giving them pottery and irrigation for example.

I'm calling that the Inca will get Irrigation at the beginning and can build their terrace farms from the start.