[GS] Māori Discussion Thread

[Siptah]

I'm calling that the Inca will get Irrigation at the beginning and can build their terrace farms from the start.

But... why?

 

[nzcamel]

I can imagine my face when I'll see their settlers arriving on a beach near my capital

I can think of several four letter words that might be uttered... lol

They would still exist. No Great Writer points just means the person can't spawn in Maori-land.

No, not great writers - great works.

Edit: Ninja'd by E.P.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

But so far, you cannot have GWoA that aren't placed anywhere. Artifacts are placed as soon as you decide from whom it is and all others are placed on creation. I can't imagine you have GWoW sitting around but not stored in a building somewhere. How would you even access it to place it later when you might have the Apadana or Bolshoi?

One time I had a relic in my palace and no other relic slots and I conquered the capital of a civ that also had a relic in their palace. Their relic was destroyed. So I guess the Maori are book burners.

 

[Pistol90]

I dont think this Civ is OP , no more than Australia let say ....

If everything is in place for them they are in top 5 Civs in the game , but they are really, really big gamble. I think you will restart game with this Civ more than with any other - and those restarts count as defeat --- and that one time when you find good spot for settling -> than things will start become easy. But still they dont have any Science uniqe thing (most important in the game), they have production true - but their cities will be on coast in most of the time, so they wont have too much of those rainforest or trees

 

[Scaramanga]

I can think of several four letter words that might be uttered... lol



No, not great writers - great works.

Edit: Ninja'd by E.P.

The text says Great Writers can't be earned. So Great Works of Writing can still be traded and captured.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

The text says Great Writers can't be earned. So Great Works of Writing can still be traded and captured.

Unless you don't have a slot for them. In which case they burn.

 

[slyone14]

OMG, this has to be one of my favorite civs so far. Question, if you cant improve resources, what would you guys do with the builder?

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

I noticed the Toa have 40 base strength. They build a special fort. They are legionaries riding varu elephants. And they said Maori wasn't a cultural blob civ!
Especially with Pa healing, why give them the extra base strength? Did they really need it? Effectively +9 swordsman is lunacy no matter how you slice it. Beating knights outright at oligarchy.

I have to imagine the Toa will get nerfed at some point, possibly before release. It seems so strong that it's going to pop on play testing.

My guess is the design motivation was to create a unit that you would stick with through the gunpowder era, bypassing Musketmen. Similar to the Civ 5 Impi.

 

[Siptah]

The text says Great Writers can't be earned. So Great Works of Writing can still be traded and captured.

Yes, but you need space for storage. The Marae has none.

 

[Victoria]

Love the music.

It's like being back at school again, but in a nice way.

Woods, rainforests, reefs, marsh

... yes marsh... get that +1 prod for lady of the reeds pantheon and your marshes are +3/+2 defensive beasties.... any way we can flood more land?

Finding that initial capital location could take some serious time.

4 Movement... friggin FOUR MP over ocean from turn 0.... yes it is going to take you a minimum of a coupl of turns to settle but your choice should be good and that Toa and Marae mix is pretty nasty for a civ to face off the bat. Why would you want to hide from a 1 pop 10 strength enemy city?

Pas were a permanent fortification

Not when the pakeha came. They have taken a little artistic licence but this is what Gate pa was -

I think you can forget about a Turn ~200 culture victory with no writing.

I have got pure science based culture victories well before that. IF they can chop forests they will be mighty nasty by flight, sod the culture. I suspect they may not be able to.

 

[Zelda1983]

If the Maori conquer a city with an Amphitheater with Great Works of Writing in the slots and the Amphitheater becomes a Marae, where do the Great Works of Writing go?

I think the Amphitheater does not become a Marae.

 

[MrRadar]

• Two free starting techs (that you would rarely research early, so really this is a mid-game boost, saves you a few turns of science production catching up on this part of the tech tree)

Oh, there's so much more than just a few saved research turns. Don't forget about ability to enter ocean tiles. This opens up access to them to the whole map on turn 0. While others sit landlocked or coastal shipping only, Maori can zoom across the whole world meeting people first, getting those first envoys and further buffs from CSs, trading stuff earlier with more people too far to bother conquering, getting those remote goodie huts and barb camp gold, and receiving all this much much earlier than everybody else when that matters more. That's pretty major, ihmo.

 

[Siptah]

This is complaining on a high level, but I wish the unique city set would have come with a different monument as well.

I think the Amphitheater does not become a Marae.

Why? Other normal buildings turn into uniques.

 

[PhilBowles]

Well, that explains how they'll survive on a TSL map but the naval focus seems more appropriate for Polynesia so I'm not sure why they chose to make Maori a civ instead, especially since it required them to resort to a mythical leader to find a naval connection.

The amphitheater replacement seems very strong - not sure having what seems to be a duplicate Roman Legionnaire adds much and the idea of the hakka as a unit ability is just embarrassing. Kupe's animations are absurdly caricatured, too.

Overall, looks like a civ with some good ideas but lacking the coherence of Hungary and I'd really much rather they'd just reused Polynesia than reskinned them as the Maori simply to get a hakka reference in.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

But... why?

I know that the Egyptians were the first to do substantial irrigation, but it wouldn't necessarily fit their playstyle as much as the Incas and the Andes were home to the first irrigation systems in the New World.

Yes, but you need space for storage. The Marae has none.

The palace, Great Library, Oxford, Bolshoi Theater, Broadway. There are options but few.

 

[nzcamel]

OMG, this has to be one of my favorite civs so far. Question, if you cant improve resources, what would you guys do with the builder?

You can improve resources; but you don't want to build lumber mills immediately.

Not when the pakeha came. They have taken a little artistic licence but this is what Gate pa was - View attachment 511078

There is still no comparison between the Roman armies building and taking down of forts and Maori Pa's. Maybe that one was thrown together in a bit of a hurry; but surely every army all around the world has tried that at one time or another.

 

[TheSpaceCowboy]

This is phenomenal civilization design! I like how they cannot harvest resources or earn Great Writers. Taking a handicap in areas where they didn't flourish historically allows them to emphasis their areas of specialization all the more, creating a highly unique flavor for the Maori. I hope more civilizations receive similar tradeoffs going forward.

 

[Equilin]

I guess they created this gimmick while revisiting the old civ question of "settle immediately or move and settle a bit later", then someone say "how about forcing to move and settle later?".

 

[Brutus2]

Sorry, how is this not a better version of the legion?

Combat strength: Same.
Can build a fort: Both yes.
Enemy gets -5 combat strength: Only Toa.

Legion can repair improvements unlimited number of times (until they build a fort). Using the policy that doubles yields from pillaging and having your Legions pillage every improvement you can before capturing a city then repairing everything in one turn is a pretty powerful strategy.

 

[nzcamel]

The amphitheater replacement seems very strong - not sure having what seems to be a duplicate Roman Legionnaire adds much and the idea of the hakka as a unit ability is just embarrassing.

Agree re the Pas.
Do not agree re the Haka. The British are on the record as saying they met no fiercer hand to hand fighters than the Maori anywhere. You're in your trench the early morning before a battle, it's cold & wet; and then you hear the haka start up from somewhere near by. It would send shivers down your spine (especially if the wahine parts were included). Morale is a huge deal in warfare; and the haka signalled to you that you were about to face someone who had no care for their own safety.
Field Marshall Erwin Rommel said in WWII quote" Give me the Maori Battalion and I'll conquer the world".

The palace, Great Library, Oxford, Bolshoi Theater, Broadway. There are options but few.

Maybe if you have a slot, you should get the option to transfer it.