Mafia/NOTW Statistics

[choxorn]

Alright then.

Town (14): Camikaze, civplayah, dcmort93, choxorn, Dumanios, DaveShack, Robbiecon, Zack, GamezRule (MusicLord), Takhisis, Snerk, Jarrema, Lord OST, TheBake

Mafia (5): Darth Caesar, Catharsis, Romanichine, BSmith, sprig

Neutral (1): CivGeneral

Won (4): Catharsis, Romanichine, BSmith, sprig

Lost (16): Camikaze, civplayah, dcmort93, choxorn, Dumanios, DaveShack, Robbiecon, Zack, GamezRule (MusicLord), Takhisis, Snerk, Jarrema, Lord OST, TheBake, Darth Caesar, CivGeneral

Survived (8): Catharsis, Romanichine, BSmith, sprig, robbiecon, GamezRule, DaveShack*, TheBake*,

*The Bake and DaveShack died after the point at which there was no possible outcome but a victory for the FOX team, and thus the game will be counted as having ended with Jarrema's death on Day 9 when that point occured (unless there's something special about the Foxhound Commander roles I'm forgetting)

 

[DaveShack]

This was my role pm for metal gear.

Lieutenant Kudu
“We have to be careful not just about what gear we bring, but what uniform we wear.”

Lieutenant Kudu is an odd fish. He’s what is classified as a “technical specialist” by his compatriots. His secret behind this involuntary appointment, is being the only member of the Red Army currently on site who can operate (and has the time to operate) the station’s communications base.
As such, he is often found berating his underlings for fundamental mistakes with their technology (which he has grown to see as “his babies”).
God forbid what should happen to their organisation if he were ever called off the scene.​

Allegiance: Red Army Commander
Head of Communications: If you should ever go missing, the chaos would be unimaginable. If you die at any point, all votes for the next day phase will be done anonymously.
Red Army victory: You win if the Red Army successfully eliminates all members of the insurrection(s) whilst at least one of the Red Army commanders remains living.

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Feel free to PM me with any questions.

 

[choxorn]

Gangland Wars is next.

I'm encountering the massive problem of "What the hell do I count all of the shopkeepers who only technically had to survive" as? Just who was what in this game, with all the moles, and the authorities/gangs/whatever the hell they were? This is almost as confusing as Takhisis's recent NOTW.

I consider making the same ruling on it as I made on Walkingdead and Mafia Wars. It's a bit less extreme than that, but damn, what the heck do I count people as?

 

[Zack]

Neutrals.

 

[Earthling]

If the game host gave them clear victory conditions distinct from townies, then neutral, if not, townies. Not sure how it was that game but it can be checked.

Survival should never be a main part of townie victory conditions but too many hosts do so anyway, however if the players end up with the limited knowledge and actions of townies then still count them as townies.

 

[Zack]

The only victory condition was survival.

 

[Earthling]

Then count them as town. The game looks like it had clear mafia/serial killer roles that killed at night as scum so no point in calling like a dozen vanilla players neutral when they were all the same. Just call all the non mafia, non-SK the townies.

Calling everyone neutral is a possibility if the host intended the game to have many factions (and that's how choxorn counted some games in the past) but that doesn't seem to capture the nature of that game, looking at it.

 

[Zack]

That's silly. The goal of the town is to eliminate the mafia, not to simply survive.

 

[Earthling]

If that rule was used a dozen or more games would have to be invalidated or not counted by choxorn.

A game host creating poor victory conditions or an imbalanced game doesn't make players not town when there's the intention of an obvious mafia vs. town setup.

Given how many of those survivors that game also had there would hardly be any townies at all in that game, which clearly does not describe it very well.

I didn't particularly agree with not counting Walkingdead but since this game does seem to have had similar problems not counting it at all too might be the solution.

 

[choxorn]

Walkingdead had the all-survivors problem compounded with multiple factions, a paranoia set-up, unclear goals, goals out of line with what normal mafia games have, and some other things that just plain makes it impossible for me to count it as a normal mafia game.

Mafia Wars had 16 mafia and 1 townie. Yeah. I can hardly count that.

For Mafia/NOTW games that just have a town with both "Kill the mafia" and "survive" goals, I usually just throw out the survive part and stick with the kill the mafia part, because that's ridiculous, and a lot of them were the NOTW games where the host followed the unwritten NOTW rule of "You lose if you die" that some follow, some don't, and I generally refuse to recognize, as I've said several times. Unless there was a good reason for why the non-neutrals have to survive to win, I tend to ignore it for both townies and mafia (and even the rare neutral who can win without surviving).

To make that slightly shorter, if everyone's a survivor but also has the normal mafia goals and everything else about the game is normal, I usually ignore the survive part for victory purposes and count it only for survival purposes, because I usually think that should be a Secondary Victory Condition, not the Main One. There are some exceptions, but generally, that's my take, and I'd say most people agree with that.

As to this, a lot of the "town" has the goal to "Survive" or "Survive until round X (my role in the game)" or "Survive, and also do this" or "do this thing," and I really have no idea what to do about it. They could sort of ally with the mafia, or the police, or the other guys, and it's just confusing.

 

[Earthling]

Well, I see two questions to deal with, the first was mainly where I see a clear cut answer.

The first is whether a bunch of vanilla players with no special victory conditions or abilities should count as something other than town.

The second is whether the game should be counted at all if it was judged as imbalanced or not fitting the definition of a mafia game or whatever.

I don't see any reason to not count those players as townies, or the same for any other game. It's like, we don't count players who were "Evil" as a trait but still town in NOTWs as something other than town.

Whether to count the game at all is a more complicated decision, I'm sure some other players/the host could help with that.

 

[Zack]

They were neutrals whose only goal was to survive, and the easiest way to ensure survival was to ask the mafia gangs for protection.

 

[Takhisis]

More or less like my NotW. An immense majority of neutrals who went around pretending to be vanilla town and never using their powers.

 

[Zack]

The survivors in classical's game had no abilities.

 

[classical_hero]

Well the town where the shopkeepers. While they were not bad, they weren't neutral either. They just had to do whatever they had to do to survive. That was their main goal survival. That meant they could win with the mafia should they want to, they could win with the cops should they want to. This is how I would call the game for statical purposes. The town had choices they could make and weren't strictly townie is the case of getting rid of the mafia, but that was the way the game turned out to play as.

Choxorn, Camikaze, Duke Blackstone and Robbiecon won as town.
The mafia winners were ATPG2, BSmith1068, Khazaar, Nictel and Snerk.
Civgeneral was a mafia who drew, since he survived, but did not become boss.
Taillesskangaru was a townie who survived but did not get rid of the mafia, thus not completing his goal
The Mafia losers were Domination3000, Sprig, SS-18 ICBM, Snaproll, civplayah and Joecoolyo.
Darth Caesar was a SK and thus neutral.
The rest are townie losers.

 

[choxorn]

Yeah, just one problem: The Town and Mafia, by definition, can't win with each other.

 

[Takhisis]

You'll be in even more of a problem as there wasn't a 'town' or a 'mafia' in my game. at least at the beginning of the game.

 

[Visorslash]

Your game isn't exactly counted.

 

[Takhisis]

Silence, whelp!

 

[choxorn]

Well, unless I can come up with a better solution to the "Most of the town isn't actually town" problem, I think I'll just discount the game for individual statistics, but let it count for the Games Hosted/Mafia Victory/Those Other Things statistics. Does anyone have a better solution than this?