[MOD] MagisterModmod

[BossDaddy]

Here is the first batch. I've checked these and they all load into Civ. Beyond that, I've tried to leave these mostly as is.

 

[PPQ_Purple]

As requested I took a look at them and have some comments.

First thing first. I see you've kept the textures at 1024x1024. That's a bit too much. You just don't need that level of detail in a texture of a unit that's going to be the size of your thumbnail on the screen 90% of the time. Regular civ units run on mostly 256x256 textures with some units going as low as 128x128. And in my own work I basically go with the rule that 256x256 is for regular units and 512x512 is allowed for units that will appear on screen rarely or in small numbers or if scaling it down to 256 really makes the texture ugly. And honestly with a lot of those skin textures and the like you won't see the difference. So 1024 is way over the top. Like that yellow dragon could probably go down to 256 and you wouldn't see the difference in game.

As for model sizes I haven't counted the pixels but looking purely by the file size they are in the same range as some of my most complex ship models. So like stuff that can work if you don't intend to flood the screen with them. But I imagine that you don't. I mean, I can't imagine dragons being as common in the game as warriors or spearmen. Still, I imagine a lot of that could be trimmed away and nobody would notice.

 

[BossDaddy]

As requested I took a look at them and have some comments.

First thing first. I see you've kept the textures at 1024x1024. That's a bit too much. You just don't need that level of detail in a texture of a unit that's going to be the size of your thumbnail on the screen 90% of the time. Regular civ units run on mostly 256x256 textures with some units going as low as 128x128. And in my own work I basically go with the rule that 256x256 is for regular units and 512x512 is allowed for units that will appear on screen rarely or in small numbers or if scaling it down to 256 really makes the texture ugly. And honestly with a lot of those skin textures and the like you won't see the difference. So 1024 is way over the top. Like that yellow dragon could probably go down to 256 and you wouldn't see the difference in game.

As for model sizes I haven't counted the pixels but looking purely by the file size they are in the same range as some of my most complex ship models. So like stuff that can work if you don't intend to flood the screen with them. But I imagine that you don't. I mean, I can't imagine dragons being as common in the game as warriors or spearmen. Still, I imagine a lot of that could be trimmed away and nobody would notice.

I agree with basically everything you said. I've gotten some skyrim models into the civ engine, but that's so over-the-top that it's not worth it. I first want to provide the assets as is and then scale it back from there. I figure you folks are much more adept at these modifications than what I can do. I didn't want to hold people back and thought ya'll would like to tinker with these. The polygons on these meshes can be reduced dramatically and the textures as well so that these can be performance friendly.

 

[PPQ_Purple]

The issue with modifications is that often the amount of work is staggering. Like, for my ship module I used some ships from Europa Universalis IV as a base. ramzay1945 managed to convert them to nif. But when I actually got to turning them into CIV4 ships I had to do so much work trimming them down that the end result was often a case of me creating totally new models based off the original more than anything else. And for all of them the only things I kept from the original were the masts and hull. And for those I still had to do a lot of polygon deleting.

 

[BossDaddy]

The issue with modifications is that often the amount of work is staggering. Like, for my ship module I used some ships from Europa Universalis IV as a base. ramzay1945 managed to convert them to nif. But when I actually got to turning them into CIV4 ships I had to do so much work trimming them down that the end result was often a case of me creating totally new models based off the original more than anything else. And for all of them the only things I kept from the original were the masts and hull. And for those I still had to do a lot of polygon deleting.

I was able to fairly quickly reduce the faces on one model from 9k to 1k and then I rewrapped the texture on the new mesh. I couldn't see a difference in game and it was a fraction of the size. I was going to wait to do that though until requested. I don't want to spend the time doing it on something that no one likes.

 

[PPQ_Purple]

That's a very good idea.

 

[BossDaddy]

Here's the second batch. I did create two additional versions of the frost atronach. I like the less translucent model myself.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I'm thinking that the Stephanos Horse looks too heavy for the Pegasus or Wing Knight. The hooves look too large. I'd assume a Pegagus would have to be a lighter breed of horse rather than a heavy war horse in order to fly. Is there any reason you couldn't get the animated wings to work the horse model I was already using?


Would using art from Oblivion risk any sort of legal trouble for copyright infringement? I assume anything from base Civ4 or other mods is fair use, but am not so sure about borrowing from other commercial games. I don't think there is anything wrong with IP infringement, but couldn't afford any legal trouble if the rights holder is litigious.


I have not looked at any of these units in the game yet, just NifSkope.

My first thought on that Oblivion Imp is that if I recolor it and add a candle flame effect it could make a nice Candle Imp, if I wanted to introduce those as a minor Ember Legion unit or lair result. I then got to thinking that it might be a better Gargoyle for the Luchuirp, if we change the texture (especially on the wings) to make it look more like stone or marble and maybe add some horns. Opening it in NifSkope I saw a LOT of polygons though. It might be too complicated a unit to let the Luchuirp produce en masse.


I'm thinking that Oblivion Lich's head and shoulder armor could be used to make a very nice Death Knight. The current FfH2 Death Knight has no head, just a hood as it was borrowed from a Lord of the Rings mod Nazgul. I use the same art as the Amurite Arcane Guard and a reskin of it as the Calabim Brood Guard, s a more distinct Death Knight for the Infernals could be nice.

That Spriggan could make for a better Dryad than the current Fae based version, but what is going on with half her head being missing?

I'm not sure that there is any reason to use the new wolves or bears instead of those already in the game.

My first thought on that gold "Akatosh" dragon was that it might make a good Dawn Dragon, to make that more distinct from Gold Dragons like Eurabatres. We might want to add more horns though, as Kael did specifically describe them as Horned.

The model also seems a closer match for the image Kael used for a Shimmering Dragon, the dragons of Sirona, although in that picture it looks like its wings might be more bird like than bat like. Perhaps a reskin of that dragon with the wings we used for the Matronae could be nice.

I'm thinking that Clannfear dinosaur thing might be better than what I'd made for Kilmorph's wingless Fang Dragons. The name Fang would imply it should have bigger teeth, although I kind of like the beak and think I prefer the non-canonical name "Lode Wyrm" instead.

That Baliwog could form the basis of Danalin's aquatic Scaled Dragon, although I'd still want tit o have wings and a very different head.

It would be nice if you could make a three headed Seed Dragon, make the Pit Dragon drag heavy chains around, and a Shield Dragon with its mouth chained closed. You can look though thid reddit link to see how each type of dragon ought to look:
https://www.reddit.com/r/fallfromheaven/comments/cxwqk7/dragons_of_fall_from_heaven/


It might be nice to have custom art for the last two members of the Unraveling, Apophis the Endless Hunger and Abbadon the Lord of Locusts.

Apophis was transformed into a normal-looking goat upon the signing of the Compact, but the player can transform him back into his true form of a giant world devouring serpent. I'm using oversized Sea Serpent art for him, but is does not look great to have a unit of that size with such a low poly count. Also, the sea serpent art actually has legs, s it was based on a lizard unit just made to go below the water's surface.

I'm currently using the Manticore art for Abaddon, but bigger and with an aura around him. I was thinking I might take your new Manticore Art and give it extra tails or extra pairs on wings for Abbadon, but the way you merge the pieces I was not able to reposition them in Nifscope. It would be nice to have more customized art for the unit anyway.

We have no canon description of Erebus's Abaddon, as Gosea's forced failed to release him even during the Age of Ruin. It might make sense to turn to the bible for inspiration instead. Abbadon himself is given no phsycial description, but Revelation does describe the sort of "locusts" that he rules over.

And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star from heaven fallen unto the earth: and there was given to him the key of the pit of the abyss. And he opened the pit of the abyss; and there went up a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit. And out of the smoke came forth locusts upon the earth; and power was given them, as the scorpions of the earth have power. And it was said unto them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree, but only such men as have not the seal of God on their foreheads. And it was given them that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when it striketh a man. And in those days men shall seek death, and shall in no wise find it; and they shall desire to die, and death fleeth from them. And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared for war; and upon their heads as it were crowns like unto gold, and their faces were as men’s faces. And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions. And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots, of many horses rushing to war. And they have tails like unto scorpions, and stings; and in their tails is their power to hurt men five months. They have over them as king the angel of the abyss: his name in Hebrew is Abaddon, and in the Greek tongue he hath the name Apollyon.

Maybe you could add a scorpion tail, wings, breastplate, and crown to the Centaur model?


edit: I juts saw the second upload

I'm thinking that Flesh Atronach might be a good replacement for the Flesh Golem and the Frost.Atronach for the Ice Elemental (to distinguish it from the Ice Golem). I'll consider the Flame Atronach for the Ifrit, but I think I still prefer the version I made based on the Infernal Beastmaster. I might use the Skeletal.Hound for the ROtting Wolves.

 

[BossDaddy]

I'm thinking that the Stephanos Horse looks too heavy for the Pegasus or Wing Knight. The hooves look too large. I'd assume a Pegagus would have to be a lighter breed of horse rather than a heavy war horse in order to fly. Is there any reason you couldn't get the animated wings to work the horse model I was already using?


Would using art from Oblivion risk any sort of legal trouble for copyright infringement? I assume anything from base Civ4 or other mods is fair use, but am not so sure about borrowing from other commercial games. I don't think there is anything wrong with IP infringement, but couldn't afford any legal trouble if the rights holder is litigious.


I have not looked at any of these units in the game yet, just NifSkope.

My first thought on that Oblivion Imp is that if I recolor it and add a candle flame effect it could make a nice Candle Imp, if I wanted to introduce those as a minor Ember Legion unit or lair result. I then got to thinking that it might be a better Gargoyle for the Luchuirp, if we change the texture (especially on the wings) to make it look more like stone or marble and maybe add some horns. Opening it in NifSkope I saw a LOT of polygons though. It might be too complicated a unit to let the Luchuirp produce en masse.


I'm thinking that Oblivion Lich's head and shoulder armor could be used to make a very nice Death Knight. The current FfH2 Death Knight has no head, just a hood as it was borrowed from a Lord of the Rings mod Nazgul. I use the same art as the Amurite Arcane Guard and a reskin of it as the Calabim Brood Guard, s a more distinct Death Knight for the Infernals could be nice.

That Spriggan could make for a better Dryad than the current Fae based version, but what is going on with half her head being missing?

I'm not sure that there is any reason to use the new wolves or bears instead of those already in the game.

My first thought on that gold "Akatosh" dragon was that it might make a good Dawn Dragon, to make that more distinct from Gold Dragons like Eurabatres. We might want to add more horns though, as Kael did specifically describe them as Horned.

The model also seems a closer match for the image Kael used for a Shimmering Dragon, the dragons of Sirona, although in that picture it looks like its wings might be more bird like than bat like. Perhaps a reskin of that dragon with the wings we used for the Matronae could be nice.

I'm thinking that Clannfear dinosaur thing might be better than what I'd made for Kilmorph's wingless Fang Dragons. The name Fang would imply it should have bigger teeth, although I kind of like the beak and think I prefer the non-canonical name "Lode Wyrm" instead.

That Baliwog could form the basis of Danalin's aquatic Scaled Dragon, although I'd still want tit o have wings and a very different head.

It would be nice if you could make a three headed Seed Dragon, make the Pit Dragon drag heavy chains around, and a Shield Dragon with its mouth chained closed. You can look though thid reddit link to see how each type of dragon ought to look:
https://www.reddit.com/r/fallfromheaven/comments/cxwqk7/dragons_of_fall_from_heaven/


It might be nice to have custom art for the last two members of the Unraveling, Apophis the Endless Hunger and Abbadon the Lord of Locusts.

Apophis was transformed into a normal-looking goat upon the signing of the Compact, but the player can transform him back into his true form of a giant world devouring serpent. I'm using oversized Sea Serpent art for him, but is does not look great to have a unit of that size with such a low poly count. Also, the sea serpent art actually has legs, s it was based on a lizard unit just made to go below the water's surface.

I'm currently using the Manticore art for Abaddon, but bigger and with an aura around him. I was thinking I might take your new Manticore Art and give it extra tails or extra pairs on wings for Abbadon, but the way you merge the pieces I was not able to reposition them in Nifscope. It would be nice to have more customized art for the unit anyway.

We have no canon description of Erebus's Abaddon, as Gosea's forced failed to release him even during the Age of Ruin. It might make sense to turn to the bible for inspiration instead. Abbadon himself is given no phsycial description, but Revelation does describe the sort of "locusts" that he rules over.



Maybe you could add a scorpion tail, wings, breastplate, and crown to the Centaur model?


edit: I juts saw the second upload

I'm thinking that Flesh Atronach might be a good replacement for the Flesh Golem and the Frost.Atronach for the Ice Elemental (to distinguish it from the Ice Golem). I'll consider the Flame Atronach for the Ifrit, but I think I still prefer the version I made based on the Infernal Beastmaster. I might use the Skeletal.Hound for the ROtting Wolves.

I did consider potential issues with these models. I did purchase the $20 deluxe edition from steam to get these. Heck, I paid for the infamous horse armor DLC when it came out. Vanilla FFH uses a huge amount of assets from other games. I remember the thread where people were excited when assets from Kohan 2 could be imported. I still prefer not using these models as is though. Modding assets from Morrowwind, Oblivion, Fallout 3, New Vegas, Fallout 4, Skyrim has always been supported really. I've been messing around with those games off and on for years and just started again when I found your mod.

You guys are much better with modifying textures and I have almost no experience with texture editing. My hope has been exactly what a lot of your responses are. I thought the Akatosh model would be a good foundation for differentiating the dragons that are available in your mod. Pieces can definitely be assembled to create units that are more fitting to the lore. As imperator said, some of the reused models for units should be changed. I've always been bothered by the model for the mithril golem for instance.

I've only skimmed your response as I'm about to eat. I didn't change the hooves for the horse that Stephanoes uses. I cloned different portions of the horse to remove the saddle and bridle as I thought that wouldn't seem right on a pegasus. There were also some transparency issues that I adjusted on the mesh. The hooves stand out too much for my tastes, but again, I'm not good at texturing. I wanted to attempt something because I liked the wind knight and was excited to get one. I was disappointed that the pegasus wasn't animated and the wind knight in my game just moved statically to a new tile. This was simply me trying to give the unit something that was more organic to see when playing. I'm not happy with the current look of what I made and am hoping you or someone could improve it. That model does gallop, the human attacks, and most things move. After I upload all of these for you guys, I am going to go back and try to animate the wings. I'm excited because from my tests, I got some units to use animations that I haven't seen used before. A wind knight that will gallop, attack, and have the wings move would be nice to see. I got all of the armature that was attached to Ars Morendi removed and then rigged to the swordsman animation. I would like to change that though to something else I think.

My goal right now is to get things converted to the civ engine. Hopefully you guys could rig some of these and provide guidance on what changes I can make. After I get these uploaded, I will go back through this and customize the meshes to what you've suggested.

 

[BossDaddy]

Here is the third batch.

 

[BossDaddy]

Fourth batch. I really like the Jyggylag as a possible replacement for the mithril golem. I modified the helmet and made two different versions. I like the second version the most. I might tinker with this later and see if I can shape the unit to be more dwarven.

 

[black_imperator]

hmmm, i was looking for something for the Hive ( a golem containing a swarm of demonic locusts). That could work, though i wouldn't need the sword

 

[BossDaddy]

Batch 5.

 

[BossDaddy]

Batch 6. The full model of the spriggan is in this one. A flower from this model could be good on the top of the staff you mentioned before.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I'd consider using Gnarl1 as a Treant, it if had more live foliage like from the Spriggan. It might be too much for the game to handle in the event of March of the Trees though.

I'm thinking Gnarl4 could be a good basis for a better model for Statius the Redeemer. It looks more like his leaderhead than any existing unit.

The Grummite could be an improvement on the Stygian Guard.

That is a good looking horse, but I don't know that it is enough better than any other to warrant the poly count.

Hunger could work as a Pit Beast, but is not enough better than the existing pit beast and not worth the poly count putting strain in processors.

I Liked the Jyggylag better in NifSkope than when I tried it in the game. It seemed to be leaning forward a lot, although that could have been exaggerated by be increasing the scale of the x and y axes compared to the z axis to make it have more dwarf-like proportions. If you manage to give it good animations I might still be convinced to use it, but we could probably find something better.

(By the way, I am thinking of changing The Mithril Golem from a Runes of Kilmorph hero to a Ringgivers hero. The pedia entry does say that Kilmorph herself animated it, but outside that pedia entry Kilmoph has no real tie to any golems and Nantostuela is so closely linked to them that many serve her in her heaven. I'm thinking changing Kilmoph to Nantosuelta and Stonewarden to Tinker may be justified. Plus, I cannot think of any other hero for that faith.)


The LandDreugh looks nice but nothing like any canonical creature, so I don't think it has a place in this modmod.

The Minotaurs don't look as good to me as the two versions of Minotaur already in vanilla FfH2.

The MurkDweller seems like it would make a great Stygian Guard(better than the Grummite), if the polycount and texture aren't too much for the game to handle for a unit can can be trained in unlimited numbers.

I'm thinking the body of the Shambles could be good for the Luchuirp Bone Golem, but I'd probably want to keep a more humanoid skull head.

I don't think I have much use for the Sheep, although the horns are nice and could be used for something.

That Skeleton was not very impressive until I removed the armor and saw how much detail it has in the ribs, spine, joints, etc. It is probablt too high detail to be worth it for any common units though

I may consider using that SlughterFish to replace Leviathan, or the Sea Serpent if we can make it longer. At least it lacks legs like the current sea serpent has.

The Spider Daedra looks very nice but does not resemble any canonical unit so I probably won't use it. Perhaps if you removed the spider parts and gave it a human lower body it could be good for a female hero like Losha Valas or Gosea.

 

[BossDaddy]

There are a lot of good horns on these models that could be incorporated onto existing units. I think Xivilai could make a very nice Mardero or vampire lord. This is a very nice model so I went ahead and broke it into pieces. The meshes and textures on the Wisp don't mean anything to me. They look like particle effects or something. I converted and included in case others find them useful.

Edit: Just saw your post. Gonna take a nap and then work on your suggestions. A found a lot of these to not be suited for FFH. There are some nice pieces though so I brought everything over anyway. I saw no reason for the sheep for instance, but I liked the horns and brought the body over regardless. At first I was going to skip the slaughterfish, but then I thought about the sea serpent as well. I need to become more familiar with reducing poly count and then reapplying the textures. If you or purple or someone can reduce the texture size, that would be great. Reducing texture sizes and polygons would allow people to focus on improving common and unlimited units.

 

[BossDaddy]

I hope you guys are good with rigging. This is kicking my butt.

 

[PPQ_Purple]

Reducing texture sizes is something I do by literally opening the file in paint.net and using the resize option. It either looks good or it doesn't after that. And if it doesn't you just have to tweak it.

 

[BossDaddy]

I'll try that at some point. I got a model rigged and using the swordsman animations in about ten minutes, but have had nothing but problems since then. Everything was looking good except for the model's left foot and wrists. I remodeled the armature to match the mesh and also tried matching the mesh to the armature. Changed the vertex group names to match the bones, changed the vertices in a group ti match the bone location, matched by bone heat, matched by names. It's frustrating as heck trying to get this to work. I'm going to try Coyote's method from the forums tonight. I finally had some more success by going piece by piece. Adding the mesh in a little at a time, matching the mesh to the armature, and then joining the pieces together into one mesh as the work. I have one unit that is almost done and am working on the arms now.

 

[BossDaddy]

I got the lich unit down to 2272 faces from 5914. The file size on the nif is now 140 and the original was 288. Here is a screen shot. There's no difference in visual quality that I can see. I haven't touched the texture so that would help more if reduced. I'll take a look at putting this head and pauldrons on the death knight now as that is the first thing you listed. The impact should be nil if the helmet, helmet/head, and pauldrons are all that are being added right now.

Edit: I've got the body on the murkdweller down to 1250 from 8185 and the horns to 97 from 650. This is the lowest I took the body as any lower seemed much worse. I moved the horns some as they weren't aligned on the body after the port from Oblivion. The file size is now 72 from an initial size of 351. Again, I have not touched the texture.