Maninisim

[Terxpahseyton]

I call dips on this wonderful wonderful word shown in the title (edit argh goooshh... it should say Maninism, not isim... Man I blew it...).
Oh an this thread is about it.

Maninism is just as feminism (ideally is) about understanding social interaction and issues through the lens of gender-specific interactions and issues. Just that the focus lies on Men rather than Women.
Please share your thoughts and feelings on the matter.

To get it started, here are two arguments on Maninism.

For one it has been argued, that Maninisim was an integral part of the feminist school of thought anyways

The thing is, how you address men's issues is not just a matter of who you're advocating for, but what you're advocating against, and in both cases, that is what can at least be broadly be called "patriarchy". Feminists have already developed a critical analysis of patriarchy, so any progressive men's movement is going to start from that point. Anti-feminism doesn't offer men anything, because all it can do is reaffirm tradition, and tradition has failed us.

And further, this integral part has been introduced as "toxic masculinity".

It basically comes to the way we've constructed masculinity as a form of power, over women, over children and over other men, especially. Feminists call traditional gender structures "patriarchy" for a reason, because it's a system of power-relations. The feminist argument is that gendered violence expresses the true nature of these relations, which are usually presented to us as beneficial and harmonious, or more recently simply denied to exist.

These power relations express themselves as physical violence for a great variety of reasons, but I think one recurring factor is a sense of frustration which develops when men associate masculinity with power, but do not actually possess substantial power of their own. This leads them to assert power through physical, sexual or psychological violence against those who are perceived to be less powerful than them, whether this is women, children, or "lesser" men, particularly sexual and ethnic minorities. (There's an analogy that can be drawn between the symbolic content of rape and far-right street violence.)

This, obviously enough, isn't any good for anyone. So what's the escape? We can't reestablish the traditional patriarchal household, which is neither plausible nor desirable, and which the historical record suggests wouldn't necessarily improve things all that much anyway. So the only alternative is to start redefining masculinity. That's the only thing which is going to save men from themselves.

Feel free to advance on those points, dream about the good old manly times or not participate at all, for a real man doesn't talk but acts (unless it is about televised sports)!

 

[Gary Childress]

Shouldn't it be called Malism or else perhaps masculinism?

 

[Terxpahseyton]

That wouldn't be cute now would it?

 

[Gary Childress]

That wouldn't be cute now would it?

No but it would make more sense (at least from the perspective I'm seeing things).

 

[Terxpahseyton]

Aesthetics are an end in themselves

 

[Gary Childress]

Aesthetics are an end in themselves

Not for me.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

That just seems impossible.
You are human, right?

 

[useless]

I often hear MRAs complain that males that are the victims of rape aren't taken seriously, so it surprises me that they're at loggerheads with Feminists and their allies who have the exact same goal of creating a culture in which victims of rape or molestation aren't initially dismissed and blamed.

 

[Perfection]

One needs here to distinguish feminism (the advocacy of women's issues) with women's studies (the study of femininity and females). What you're more describing is men's studies, a subset of gender studies rather then some form of male advocacy that "maninism" would seem to imply.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

Sure thing - but ideally one should not look at one without the other.

 

[Perfection]

I don't think women's studies is devoid of interaction and serious dialogue with the ideas masculinity and the gender system overall. It just focuses on women.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

Oh I didn't mean to suggest otherwise.

 

[Gary Childress]

That just seems impossible.
You are human, right?

As far as I know I am human. As far as I know I don't produce aesthetic works to simply stare at and worship. Usually there is a goal or task I'm trying to accomplish with them.

When Van Gogh produced Starry Night I thought he was trying to capture something he saw and convey it to others. I didn't realize we are supposed to simply sit and stare at it and admire it (it's really not all that colorful or dazzling a painting in its own right I don't think). That seems like a very superficial level of art appreciation to me. Almost like idolatry or something. Most truly aesthetically pleasing works of art seem to me to usually have a message or something to convey to those who apprehend them. The artist is using the art work as a medium for a message. We are using the art work to discover what it is the artist is trying to convey to us. Otherwise I don't think we produce shiny objects just to mesmerize and captivate us. That seems to reduce the spectator to little more than some sort of mindless drone.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

So nothing is just pleasing to you? You always need a "justification" for it?

Link to video.

 

[Gary Childress]

So nothing is just pleasing to you? You always need a "justification" for it?

Link to video.

Sure some things are just pleasing. That is the end they serve and those pleasing things are the means to it. The pleasing things aren't ends in themselves.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

Let me rephrase that. So aesthetics never are just pleasing to you?

 

[classical_hero]

For me, it is a technology to get if you want to get the Great Library before anyone else.

 

[Gary Childress]

Let me rephrase that. So aesthetics never are just pleasing to you?

Sorry, if I misunderstood. Sure. Sometimes they are.

 

[caketastydelish]

I often hear MRAs complain that males that are the victims of rape aren't taken seriously, so it surprises me that they're at loggerheads with Feminists and their allies who have the exact same goal of creating a culture in which victims of rape or molestation aren't initially dismissed and blamed.

Why do you love bringing negativity? Rape doesn't have anything to do with this...

 

[warpus]

Unfortunately any sort of group you'd want to start or join that looks out for men's rights will be likely looked down upon by the rest of society as being sexist... and there aren't really any organizations or groups out there that focus on gender equality.. so you might as well join the feminists and change them from within.