March Patch Notes (formerly february)

Status
Not open for further replies.
Wait and have a cup of tea.
As far as I remember, this has been promised at least once already (I think it was the 0.065 patch?) without them having delivered.

It *MIGHT* allow for more <s>strategy</s> tactical warfare, if the AI could cope with it.
As the AI is completely overcommited with that feature, all it does is granting an instant win to the human player. No wonder that many people like such a feature.

No, it is broken because the AI cannot handle it. And not only the AI can't handle it, it also abolishes any chance for the AI to cover its weakness with production bonuses.
In your example, not only the jelly is missing, it has been replaced with mustard.

So, out of a sudden Firaxis is assumed to teach the AI the principles of battle theatres, to interpret varying regions, the influence of approaching units to its battle plans and what not more?
And as almost always, "1upt is just fine, if it only weren't 1upt"?
You are disliking stacking, but just want to have some stacking to make non-stacking meaningful?
Sounds very convincing. :rolleyes:
I will try to explain this again, apparently it was too hard for some the first time.

Again, there's a difference between something being broken and something being used improperly. Use a rake to sweep your house, and surprise, the rake is ineffective. But that does not mean the rake is broken, is means you don't know how to use it. Look at the comments from earlier, and the response was to the blanket statement "1UPT is broken" and that therefore Civ V cannot be redeemed. I argued the concept is excellent but needs to be better implementation by the AI

And yes, you can design AI that knows enough to make use of it. In the old Sid Meier's Pirates you fought town sieges on a tactical map, and the computer could position its troops on hills, take advantage of cover, keep it's weaker ranged units back behind stronger melee, flank with mounted, etc. This game came out in about the year 2002. It's not some pie in the sky dream.

As for as your confusion as to stacking of civilian units: 1UPT is designed make combat more tactical and battlefields and terrain more important. However, allowing multiple civilian units would not impact that and could have some other benefits, make it easier use your workers and great people, etc. It seems to me a reasonable suggestion I read on another thread could support.

And finally, why do you insult so many people by saying people like 1UPT because it makes the game easier? Why is it so hard to believe people enjoy a combat system that involves varied units with differing strengths and weaknesses, terrain positioning and chokepoints, zones of control, meaningful placement of forts and defensive structures? Forgive us for liking something that involves more thought than build a 100 units, march to city, crush city, rinse and repeat.
 
it really wouldn't make sense to be all cities and in tradition branch. probably another miswritten thing, but who knows.

The point is that it is pro growth... therefore it is a "tall" strategy.


Tall= food limited, excess happiness
Wide= happiness limited, excess food
 
If all the math works out then it will be a production advantage now up untill you have 23 base production from tiles. After that it will favor the old system.

*If you city has no mines, no Iron with forge, no stable with Sheep/Cattle/Horses, and no deer camps, that is. Also he forgot to include that Solar and Nuclear plants provide 4 hammers and 35% instead of 0 and 25%.

The chances of your city having no Sheep, Cattle, Horses, Deer, Iron, mines, or Oil, is slim now that they have to be 3 tiles apart. So really the base math isn't applicable in most cases. Needless to say, most cities are going to be more productive in their own right now, and railroads may end up still being useful for most cities. Now when you put your cities on production focus, you're actually going to get a huge boost to production. I like it.
 
The point is that it is pro growth... therefore it is a "tall" strategy.


Tall= food limited, excess happiness
Wide= happiness limited, excess food

It works that way in theory, but in practice, giving +2 food to an ICSer means they can put their cities on production focus from the start and never be stuck at 1 pop. With an "avoid growth" button, the happiness issue becomes nullified.

So in practice, the policy is good for both Tall and Wide. It is must have for Tall, and for Wide it is like getting two free Maritime allies. Not to mention the benefits it has for specialist spamming with Freedom. It equates to two extra specialists, and one extra happiness per city in that strategy.
 
It works that way in theory, but in practice, giving +2 food to an ICSer means they can put their cities on production focus from the start and never be stuck at 1 pop. With an "avoid growth" button, the happiness issue becomes nullified.

So in practice, the policy is good for both Tall and Wide. It is must have for Tall, and for Wide it is like getting two free Maritime allies. Not to mention the benefits it has for specialist spamming with Freedom. It equates to two extra specialists, and one extra happiness per city in that strategy.

True... It is good for both Tall and Wide.. but it is more Tall.
Just like Oligarchy is very "Wide"

It might have been better for it to be just a +25-35% boost to growth
 
The point is that it is pro growth... therefore it is a "tall" strategy.

+2 food to every city and +15% is really powerful. per city bonuses have ... ahem... traditionally been in the liberty branch. these two reasons make me think it's not going to end up that way.

is +2 food per city better for someone with 3 cities or someone with 30 cities?
 
+2 food to every city and +15% is really powerful. per city bonuses have ... ahem... traditionally been in the liberty branch. these two reasons make me think it's not going to end up that way.

is +2 food per city better for someone with 3 cities or someone with 30 cities?


I could say the same about +15% growth.

I agree tweaking may be needed... dropping it to 1 and +20-25% growth or 25-35% growth might be the best.
 
+2 food to every city and +15% is really powerful. per city bonuses have ... ahem... traditionally been in the liberty branch. these two reasons make me think it's not going to end up that way.

is +2 food per city better for someone with 3 cities or someone with 30 cities?

it is true. Nerf maritime CSs because +food/city was too strong, then just hand it back with a growth bonus as a policy...

ICS growth for basically free.
 
Does shift-clicking queue build orders now?
Spoiler :
trollface500.png
 
I have not read every post but have read what this patch will fix and do for the game. dissappointed that there is not a hotseat game play in multiplayer yet.....hmmm:sad::sad::sad::sad::sad::sad:
 
HAHA! So now it is clear! They are NOT ABLE to improve tactical AI !

From what I read they are going to be looking into it. I think they are starting to get the message from several posts about the issues of weak AI.
 
Cool we can use DLCs in multiplayer. But since these added civs are better than average, they will be selected in almost all games. Babylon=>free GS=>Steel. Et voilà.
I have to buy these DLCs or i will be stomped. :crazyeye:
 
OK, one thing I'm missing in this patch is an adjusted upgrade path for ranged units like archers. It's really a pain it to have your promotions wasted when upgrading archer units to rifleman. I just refuse to believe that this was intended by the programmers.

EDIT: Other promotion fixings that are needed:
- Mordern aircraft units (I think you can not promote stealth bombers, while you can do it with normal bombers)
- Catapults/Tebuchets get a 30% bonus against cities, cannons get a 10% bonus. These bonusses stack with upgrading to cannons, which is probably not intended as well (I would have never noticed it, if I didn't watch MadDjinn's video series :) )

Shouldn't be too hard to fix these problems, but what do I know about programming... :D
 
From what I read they are going to be looking into it. I think they are starting to get the message from several posts about the issues of weak AI.

"With future patches we’ll continue to iterate through Civ V systems and fine tune the balance of each one. So far we’ve already identified combat, multiplayer, late-game policies, wonders and civilization-unique bonuses as additional areas that will benefit from this sort of attention. And as this journey progresses we promise to keep an ear to the ground for other areas the Civilization community may want us to address. Continued collaboration between community, our gameplay testers, and the development team will be nothing but a win for Civ V."

This statement in the release notes provides a lot of promise. It hits upon most of the LEGITIMATE complaints about the game - not the mindless, nonsensical rants. For those of us who enjoy CiV, we have a lot to look forward to IMO.
 
"With future patches we’ll continue to iterate through Civ V systems and fine tune the balance of each one. So far we’ve already identified combat, multiplayer, late-game policies, wonders and civilization-unique bonuses as additional areas that will benefit from this sort of attention. And as this journey progresses we promise to keep an ear to the ground for other areas the Civilization community may want us to address. Continued collaboration between community, our gameplay testers, and the development team will be nothing but a win for Civ V."

This statement in the release notes provides a lot of promise. It hits upon most of the LEGITIMATE complaints about the game - not the mindless, nonsensical rants. For those of us who enjoy CiV, we have a lot to look forward to IMO.

Yes. It will just take longer than all of us would like, or than it should have. But I enjoy the (modded) game already, and look forward to every coming iteration.
 
it is true. Nerf maritime CSs because +food/city was too strong, then just hand it back with a growth bonus as a policy...

ICS growth for basically free.

On paper, for sure. In practice, it has costs - it's a social policy that you probably wouldn't have taken before, so it costs you whatever the benefits of the social policy you would have but don't are. Quite possibly it costs you two social policies for nearly no net benefit

It's probably still overall a buff for ICS, but its much more of a buff for strategies that already wanted to go deep in that branch.

Incidentally, I've found that the game is actually pretty compelling when played 'straight' - when not taking advantage of degenerate strategies. I know that it's their failure in not balancing out degenerate strategies before launch (and it feels like they're trying to work their way towards that with these patches), and some people just won't want to 'artificially' limit themselves away from things like ICS, but for people who can manage it and like the core features (like 1UPT), I recommend you try it with no degenerate strategies and a fresh set of eyes. I took some time off from just before last patch until a couple days ago and I'm really having a lot more fun with it than I remember.
 
some other info from the 2k-Thread:
Originally Posted by 2k Greg
Originally Posted by PANDAPATCHES
While I like that you keep improving the game. I want the Hot Seat. When can we expect the Hot Seat patch?
There is currently no ETA; when there is any sort of rough ETA I will let you guys know.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom