Massive Humans vs Humans Game/Lets Player Tracker

Who do you think will win?

  • AstralPhaser

    Votes: 5 7.5%
  • Il Principe

    Votes: 2 3.0%
  • Koshling

    Votes: 14 20.9%
  • Hydromancerx

    Votes: 17 25.4%
  • Vokarya

    Votes: 4 6.0%
  • Acularius

    Votes: 3 4.5%
  • Thunderbrd

    Votes: 8 11.9%
  • ls612

    Votes: 5 7.5%
  • JosEPh_II

    Votes: 8 11.9%
  • Praetyre

    Votes: 1 1.5%
  • Epi3b1rD

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    67
@Vokarya
I hope that avoiding to adress anything I said isn't a grudge for a game's outcome. What I've been trying to say wasn't offensive, it was the best I could offer for someone in a game I want to win. Now that you left I can tell you my whole plan for you: I wished you to be my partner. If you asked to keep the border cities I was starting to consider letting you keep them, if we could reach an agreement about resources. I wanted your copper, so giving me an instance of copper wares would be enough. About your expansion, I would let you keep the whole frozen South up to Joseph's Ex-Capital, from there on I'd colonize the rest, and I'd offer you to get a nice spot in the new world once we reached that moment. My idea wasn't destroying you in any moment, I wished to have you as a Trade Routes partner, and a way for me to overexpand westward, towards the other players, something I wouldn't be able to do with you in war with me, or having to conquer you. I'm sorry if I made you feel bad, but you said you weren't giving up that easily, so I didn't go easy on you (could've been harder, but that would slow my development, however I didn't make it easy anyway).

@All
Anyways, now things are ridiculously easier for me, as I have no Human Neighbor, and I'm already the largest nation on this planet. Before I play my next turn I'll say exactly what the AI will do with Vokarya's army. I'm tired of AI's tactics. Whisperr's nation is crumbling to my attacking party which is like 5 times weaker/smaller then the army I have facing Vokarya. Right now I'm going to do a test on College, so after that I'll narrate the pathetic moves the AI will do with Vokarya's army. Just to tease the beginning, the dogs will attack my Stacks or will be left right beside my borders in the reach of my fast moving units which can walk, attack, and walk back to their initial spots.
 
@Vokarya
I hope that avoiding to adress anything I said isn't a grudge for a game's outcome. What I've been trying to say wasn't offensive, it was the best I could offer for someone in a game I want to win. Now that you left I can tell you my whole plan for you: I wished you to be my partner. If you asked to keep the border cities I was starting to consider letting you keep them, if we could reach an agreement about resources. I wanted your copper, so giving me an instance of copper wares would be enough. About your expansion, I would let you keep the whole frozen South up to Joseph's Ex-Capital, from there on I'd colonize the rest, and I'd offer you to get a nice spot in the new world once we reached that moment. My idea wasn't destroying you in any moment, I wished to have you as a Trade Routes partner, and a way for me to overexpand westward, towards the other players, something I wouldn't be able to do with you in war with me, or having to conquer you. I'm sorry if I made you feel bad, but you said you weren't giving up that easily, so I didn't go easy on you (could've been harder, but that would slow my development, however I didn't make it easy anyway).

@All
Anyways, now things are ridiculously easier for me, as I have no Human Neighbor, and I'm already the largest nation on this planet. Before I play my next turn I'll say exactly what the AI will do with Vokarya's army. I'm tired of AI's tactics. Whisperr's nation is crumbling to my attacking party which is like 5 times weaker/smaller then the army I have facing Vokarya. Right now I'm going to do a test on College, so after that I'll narrate the pathetic moves the AI will do with Vokarya's army. Just to tease the beginning, the dogs will attack my Stacks or will be left right beside my borders in the reach of my fast moving units which can walk, attack, and walk back to their initial spots.

That seems to give those of us crammed together an incentive to work together and share tech to avoid being way behind you when we eventually meet. Looks like local squabbles will nee to go on hold...
 
That seems to give those of us crammed together an incentive to work together and share tech to avoid being way behind you when we eventually meet. Looks like local squabbles will nee to go on hold...

I agree, prepare for the Horde! This will be fun ;)

Spoiler :
unless you believe I'm bluffing


Spoiler :
Or, if you aren't Koshling, maybe this can be a plan of his to outpace the others and eventually win by having combined forces against the only threat he sees, and then squashing the others because of his superiority
 
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Anyways, now things are ridiculously easier for me, as I have no Human Neighbor, and I'm already the largest nation on this planet.
How do you know this when you have not met all Empires (AI and player)?
 
How do you know this when you have not met all Empires (AI and player)?

I expect you to tell me I'm wrong in my assumptions from what I'm about to say, but that's ok. Being easier doesn't mean I'll win, neither that another player can't keep ahead of me for the rest of the game. By easier I mean the following:

I may not know all Empires yet, but the Demographics Screen gives me some important information on nations that matter. On this Screen I take GNP, Mfg. Goods and Crop Yield as the most important aspects to define a civ's growth. I'm currently 1st in GNP and Mfg. Goods, and 2nd in Crop Yield. Also, Land Area is somewhat important to check the extension of a player while I don't know how many cities other nations have (and I'm 1st Land Area). This means that if I keep things like that, through snowball effect I'll win. Unless players overexpand through colonization or conquest, the tendency is for the 1st on these criteria to win the game.

This is important to understand because the simplest way to increase everything that matters is by founding more cities first, and only then all the other miscellanea that helps economic growth (resources, tribal villages, population growth, capturing strategic points, trade missions, diplomacy, etc.). With the highest count of cities in this game already, with free room to expand inside the gaps around my empire, and now also Vokarya's Peninsula and Whisperr's Land for the grabs (because the AI can't handle it), the expectation is that the snowball will get pretty big pretty soon.

About AIs Joseph, let's just say AIs don't stand a chance against me, only if they are on Deity, and only while I'm not familiar with the mod. We are playing on Noble, the AI is a complete waste of time, and a pool of advantages to me. Having AIs around me doesn't only mean they are weaker then players, it also means that because they are so stupid I can harvest many goodies from them that this makes it even better to keep them being enemy cities instead of becoming a part of me. Revolutions play a big role here to my advantage, and also XP farming.

And about the others I know enough to assume that. Tbrd, Magnus and Koshling are locked in an island which is probably smaller then my core (I'm sparsely colonized) by the pics I could see from Magnus and from the old LPs. You aren't faring good against what's left of Hydro, and you both seem to not be connected to the rest of us. Although I don't know where the Tri-island is, I know Tbrd, so he can't be too far away. Without land for them to grow, and a lot of land for me to grow, it becomes hard to see how they'll be able to stop my snowball.



BTW, I said I would narrate the AI movement, well here it is: Vokarya had 2 Stacks of troops on our borders, besides troops protecting his 3 bordering cities. One Stack is inside the most dangerously located city for him, and the other is outside a city protecting a worker which was making a road to connect 2 of his cities (because I had pillaged that road previously). Both Stacks are 2 tiles away from my borders. Aside from letting the dogs out as I said in my last post (and hunters and scouts too), the AI will move both stacks towards my borders. The one outside any city will simply move diagonally up and left because that's the closest it can get to my overall nation. However, the other stack, by fear of the strength of my stack which is 2 tiles north and one east of it, will walk diagonally left top to avoid my stack while aiming for my city because it has only 1 troop and 1 dog, which means the AI will feel lured to come to my city. In the sea the outrigger will come to my Pearl and will pillaged it because it can do this in 1 turn. The other ships (which can't) will all fall back to his capital because the AI has to move its ships every turn (unless they'll be in serious danger from enemy ships), and in the process they will stop in a reef, which is avoidable, because the AI seems to ignore terrain damage.

When I play my turn I'll say what has happened like I said and what hasn't to see how much I previewed of the AI's play
 
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I agree, prepare for the Horde! This will be fun ;)Or, if you aren't Koshling, maybe this can be a plan of his to outpace the others and eventually win by having combined forces against the only threat he sees, and then squashing the others because of his superiority

Of course that's my plan. Distilled to its essence that is ALWAYS anyone's plan unless they think they can go it alone. It's a matter of timescales though. I can have that as a long term goal while still being a good ally for an indefinitely long period, because it mutually increases the probability that ALL participants in such an arrangement will be in a position to eventually execute that strategy when compared to the choice of in-fighting in the short-run.
 
We are playing on Noble,
No we are not. It is Emperor. Nor are we playing on Adjusting Difficulty levels for player or AI (not sure where you got this idea unless you changed the games set up when you fixed it).

Yes Rev is On and so is SaM ( the latter has been proven to be detrimental to the AI overall, but was not known when this game was started).

About AIs Joseph, let's just say AIs don't stand a chance against me, only if they are on Deity,

This can be said of every player in this game. I will relish the "action" between you and T-brd when it comes about. War Dog must be reckoned with. And you will find that koshling is a Grand Master at this game as well. Word of advice, I would temper my boasts a bit if I were you. Or you can ignore it. :)

Also there is no real "New World" on this map (yes the set up was for "Old World" start). But this version of Perfect Mongoose does not adhere as strictly to this settings as say a GEM map would.

As for AI tendencies, well if you've played enough C2C in comparison to AND2 then you might have a good handle on it. But if you are basing this off your LOR and AND2 experiences then you might get a surprise or 2. Just sayin'. ;)

This is important to understand because the simplest way to increase everything that matters is by founding more cities first,

While I agree with this concept of Wide do not think the players that use Tall are as susceptible as you think. You could get hurt.

As for me this game has settings that I personally dislike very much. But I'm along for the ride to learn. Being I'm more isolated now than my original spot, before I traded starting spots with Mega Nix within a few turnas after game start, and am working in a virtual vacuum almost. So your references to JosEPh's (former) Capitol and the surrounding land is but a distant memory for me now (4 years of not seeing it will do that). And they are basically intel from a long distant time.

Finally, 1 more item that was brought up in the Another Game, that must be brought up here for you to know. It was doing replays of your turn if you made a mistake or stopping and saving and then coming back. That practice is Very heavily frowned on. Don't do it anymore please. You will Live and Die by your 1st Sword cut, no do overs.
 
I have always found the comparison tracking parts of this game to be a bit off, so you may not want to rely on them too heavily there Spirictum. Specifically I am referring to the Demographics and History Graph screens. For example, while you say that the Demographics screen shows you in 1st (or near the top) of many categories (and I can believe that), the History Graph has consistently shown you as lower than I am in all categories for as long as I recall. I even specifically checked that in my last turn. How can you be 1st in GNP (on Demographics) when you are lower in GNP (on History) than I am? The two screens just don't agree with each other, which means that one or the other (or both) are unreliable.

As a further point on that, I have played a lot of games where I was, on the Demographics screen, rather behind everyone else and still eventually won. Of course, this was vs AI, so it may not be the best example, but it still shows that the Demographics screen is not necessarily a reliable indicator of who is likely to win.

As a possible counter point, the Mastery screen does show Totila as having the highest current Mastery score, at least among the civs I have met.
 
Of course that's my plan. Distilled to its essence that is ALWAYS anyone's plan unless they think they can go it alone. It's a matter of timescales though. I can have that as a long term goal while still being a good ally for an indefinitely long period, because it mutually increases the probability that ALL participants in such an arrangement will be in a position to eventually execute that strategy when compared to the choice of in-fighting in the short-run.
Couldn't agree more

No we are not. It is Emperor. Nor are we playing on Adjusting Difficulty levels for player or AI (not sure where you got this idea unless you changed the games set up when you fixed it).

Yes Rev is On and so is SaM ( the latter has been proven to be detrimental to the AI overall, but was not known when this game was started).

When I was fixing this game, I entered this game on Direct IP to check if my fix was working (because at the time people refused to keep playing this game) and it showed everyone on difficulty Noble, besides Whisperr which is on Prince (for what reason I don't know). Also there is this:
Main Settings:
World Type:
Perfect Mongoose -Start in Old World
World Size: Huge
Climate: Temperate
Sea Level: Normal
Starting Era: Prehistoric
Difficulty: Noble
Speed: Epic
So it's probably on Noble as I said.

And what's SaM?

This can be said of every player in this game. I will relish the "action" between you and T-brd when it comes about. War Dog must be reckoned with. And you will find that koshling is a Grand Master at this game as well. Word of advice, I would temper my boasts a bit if I were you. Or you can ignore it. :)
If it can be said about anyone, it can be said about me. You asked me how come I know it's easier if I don't know every empire player or AI, and I told you what I know about the players and that, like any player here, I disconsider the AI as competition. They are my playground. I wish to face both Koshling and Tbrd eventually, and if they go together I'll probably lose because I still have much to learn in C2C, but if I win it'll be such an incredible experience that I'm up for the challenge.

Also there is no real "New World" on this map (yes the set up was for "Old World" start). But this version of Perfect Mongoose does not adhere as strictly to this settings as say a GEM map would.
I'd suppose it works like PerfectWorld2 or Totestra, two mapscripts I played a lot with, which when asked to Start in Old World, always leave at least one sizeable Landmass to be colonized later. I hope here we have this too (although it would be better for our lives if the game ended before the Great Navigations Era).

As for AI tendencies, well if you've played enough C2C in comparison to AND2 then you might have a good handle on it. But if you are basing this off your LOR and AND2 experiences then you might get a surprise or 2. Just sayin'. ;)

I hope you're right Joseph, but until now I have seen many mistakes I'm already aware about. Some are described in my last post. The only noticeable thing I could see that's completely different from before is that the AI spreads its troops far more then in LoR (played too little of RAND to remember about that there), which is great to use Surround and Destroy even if the AI doesn't understand it. Next turn I'll see what the AI has done and we'll see how much of its movements I could foreseen.

While I agree with this concept of Wide do not think the players that use Tall are as susceptible as you think. You could get hurt.

As for me this game has settings that I personally dislike very much. But I'm along for the ride to learn. Being I'm more isolated now than my original spot, before I traded starting spots with Mega Nix within a few turnas after game start, and am working in a virtual vacuum almost. So your references to JosEPh's (former) Capitol and the surrounding land is but a distant memory for me now (4 years of not seeing it will do that). And they are basically intel from a long distant time.

Finally, 1 more item that was brought up in the Another Game, that must be brought up here for you to know. It was doing replays of your turn if you made a mistake or stopping and saving and then coming back. That practice is Very heavily frowned on. Don't do it anymore please. You will Live and Die by your 1st Sword cut, no do overs.

About Tall and Wide, could you explain more? I'd guess you're talking more cities vs bigger cities, but I'm not sure

About Reloading, that's why I separate my turn in 3 parts: Movement and Infrastructure, City Management, and War Tactics in this order. When it reaches the War Tactics part I don't reload if something goes in a way I didn't want (this includes slipping the mouse when I already started attacking with other units). But in the other parts (actually the first part, because there's nothing you can't correct in City Management) if something goes wrong by mistakes of action and not by bad strategy/tactic/decision (like the mouse slipping as it did) I don't feel this a bad thing to reload. I could avoid doing this by paying much more attention when I'm playing, but this is stressful. Also, about saving while playing and loading afterwards is a matter of making things faster. CTDs happen occasionally and sometimes I'm busy and I can only spend time in the Movement and Infrastructure step of my turn, so I leave the rest for later. If I wasn't doing that, imagine how much time it would take to pass my turn? If it already takes in the least 20 minutes if I sit and play it entirely, how much it would take in average if I wasn't allowed to split it in parts or if I had to redo it all upon a CTD?

I have always found the comparison tracking parts of this game to be a bit off, so you may not want to rely on them too heavily there Spirictum. Specifically I am referring to the Demographics and History Graph screens. For example, while you say that the Demographics screen shows you in 1st (or near the top) of many categories (and I can believe that), the History Graph has consistently shown you as lower than I am in all categories for as long as I recall. I even specifically checked that in my last turn. How can you be 1st in GNP (on Demographics) when you are lower in GNP (on History) than I am? The two screens just don't agree with each other, which means that one or the other (or both) are unreliable.

I'd like to know who you're referring to Magnus, as you don't know me because I don't know you, so you can't have me in your History Graphs Screen. Ask Tbrd, he knows me. If you know Tbrd just imagine I'm above him in the GNP Graph, because I am. Or doesn't imagine, just see (I'm the Goths):

Spoiler :

qufxFqS.jpg

Tbrd is Zephyria of course, Elementa was Vokarya, AstralPhaser was Whisperr, and Canada was once long ago Joseph.


As a further point on that, I have played a lot of games where I was, on the Demographics screen, rather behind everyone else and still eventually won. Of course, this was vs AI, so it may not be the best example, but it still shows that the Demographics screen is not necessarily a reliable indicator of who is likely to win.
As a possible counter point, the Mastery screen does show Totila as having the highest current Mastery score, at least among the civs I have met.

Even if you're behind this doesn't mean you'll lose, also if you're up front it doesn't mean you'll win. But by keeping oneself on top, it tends to his victory, because most of the game is a snowball effect, so by becoming better earlier makes it a lot easier to keep being better in the future. And eventually you probably got on top of Demographics, or there was a huge gap in military tactics between you and your enemies (which is normal in this game with the AI). I won several games where I wasn't first in Demographics, but that was always against the AI.

And on the Victory Screen it doesn't mind if you know the player or not. I can see Koshling's score although we've never met. So whoever has the highest points in anyone's mastery screen is the master. And yes, the Mastery Screen puts me on top :D
 
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Well, that is odd. Mine shows a (if I recall correctly) "Steiner of the Goth" and their line is purple/dark blue. I guess that is not you. Well, never mind then.

I have no idea who this is, and by the way you described him, he is another pathetic AI. I'm Totila, and that's the reason you call me Totila when you pass the turn
 
Well, that is odd. Mine shows a (if I recall correctly) "Steiner of the Goth" and their line is purple/dark blue. I guess that is not you. Well, never mind then.
My southern neighbor. An AI now but I cannot recall who it was that was playing them. Whoever it was was a Battletech fan apparently.

Beyond them is Whisperr's northern border.

Hey... sorry to hear you're leaving us @Vokaria. I'm sorry that there's a sour taste for you regarding C2C. I get it. I still feel you did us a lot of good when you were working with us.
 
My southern neighbor.(...)
Beyond them is Whisperr's northern border.

Really?! So we're closer then I thought. That sounds nice.

Will you hear cunning Genghis Koshling, TBrd? Or do you believe I'm bluffing or blind to my own ignorance?

That seems to give those of us crammed together an incentive to work together and share tech to avoid being way behind you when we eventually meet. Looks like local squabbles will nee to go on hold...

Spoiler :
I'm sorry if anyone feels bad by me mocking around. I can't help myself, I like doing this. I also like when people do this to me (to a certain degree of course, nobody likes to be humiliated) because in certain doses it gives me the will to surpass myself and prove them wrong (used this technique with school teachers a lot when I was still in school). So if anyone doesn't like this, I ask you to tell me, and I'll stop doing this with you. But those that are ok with it, please play with me ;)

As an example:
EDIT:
@T-Brd
Wait until I catch you up in Technology

It's cute that you think you will.
 
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I am not quite sure why I am flagged in that comment, but I have confirmed that it is still MegaNix's turn (IE, JosEPh_II). It would appear that he failed to commit the correct save game file.

Oh, and in response to Spirictum's question in the Spoiler, I would request that for myself. In reality, I have a difficult time telling when a person is serious/joking/sarcastic, and that is ten times worse in a text only environment as there are no facial clues, no tone of voice, no inflection to try to pick up on. Thus I have to assume that anything typed is entirely serious. Well, a smiley can show that something is not serious, but that is about it. At the least, if you feel that you must, then please make it obvious.
 
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Oh, and in response to Spirictum's question in the Spoiler, I would request that for myself. In reality, I have a difficult time telling when a person is serious/joking/sarcastic, and that is ten times worse in a text only environment as there are no facial clues, no tone of voice, no inflection to try to pick up on. Thus I have to assume that anything typed is entirely serious. Well, a smiley can show that something is not serious, but that is about it. At the least, if you feel that you must, then please make it obvious.

That's ok, I'll respect that. You can ignore me when I'm not specifically mocking someone, and I won't intentionally target you. BTW, as you're a smaller state in this game, my initial plan was to befriend you, but then there is Koshling's offer to you guys now that I'm not sure if mine can be more appealing then his'. I can train some very powerful full of upgrades units that for a price can be sold to states in need ;) ("Friendship" can be an asset to trade for them)
Writing won't take much to become a necessity to me, so soon I'll be able to talk to all others who can talk too.
 
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T-brd next...

Had to Re Export Vokarya's last turn and Replay my turn. Else the game said I had Paused the Game. :crazyeye::cringe:
 
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