Matt's Mormon Thread

[Eran of Arcadia]

Out of curiosity, Neomega, where do you live, and if you don't mind my asking, how old are you?

[edit]: I see you live around Seattle. Never mind.

 

[Neomega]

Out of curiosity, Neomega, where do you live, and if you don't mind my asking, how old are you?

[edit]: I see you live around Seattle. Never mind.

I am close to 29.

And that reminds me.... mormons were like, 5-6 years behind the rest of the high school when it came to maturity about sex.

I mean, juniors and seniors acting like 5th and 6th graders, talking about everything even remotely sexual as "gross". It was my impressions and where I gained my prejudice. One of the their less charming qualities, for sure.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Odd, it doesn't square with my observations. We knew as much about sex (at least what was truly important, even if we didn't know which base was which) as anyone, we just don't talk about it as much.

 

[Neomega]

It's not liek we did either... but if anything came close... well, loads of immaturity.

Well, one friend was quite the opposite... he was one of those mormon bad boys... liked to steal and vandalize, had porn... but didn't drink or do drugs.
He's the one that got excommunicated for getting his future ex-wife pregnant.... I was the best man actually.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

You'll have that, sometimes. Every denomination will have those who selectively follow some of the rules, but ignore others. But having been around both Mormon and non-Mormon teenage boys, I must say that 'maturity' is not something I would attribute to the latter.

 

[Neomega]

You'll have that, sometimes. Every denomination will have those who selectively follow some of the rules, but ignore others. But having been around both Mormon and non-Mormon teenage boys, I must say that 'maturity' is not something I would attribute to the latter.

Mormons in my experience have been pretty mature.... except that one little area.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Huh. In my experience they have been more mature in the sense of not treating the whole thing as a joke, or however you would describe the precise way in which most teenage boys treat sex.

 

[Neomega]

Huh. In my experience they have been more mature in the sense of not treating the whole thing as a joke, or however you would describe the precise way in which most teenage boys treat sex.

well, funny or disguisting would be about how I could sum up the total of their reactions.

 

[downtown]

good heavens, we're still talking about masturbation? Geez, this isnt exactly a central tenet here to the gospel. Nobody gives an anti-masturbation sermon. Its pretty much a non-issue. You want to talk about sexual repression, go talk about female circumsision or something. This is small fries.
Most of us dont masturbate, or have many done it once or twice. We still have sex lives. The church doesnt really care what you do once you're married. This really isnt nearly as big of a deal that you two are making it out to be

 

[ironduck]

Certainly it's small fries compared to brutal assault. But we're not discussing those specific horrors in this thread, we're discussing mormon doctrine.

There seem to be a lot of 'small fries' within mormon doctrine, and judging from this thread changing doctrine is not an option. Everytime I've tried using logic to explain why perhaps things should be questioned within mormon doctrine the reply comes that god wants it this way.

I'm glad I live in a place where religious doctrine isn't fixed.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

You mean me? Gosh, I was just answering questions. I certainly never wanted to give the impression that I care. it is a non-issue to me, and in fact before this outburst I only talked about it once in a church context in my entire life.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Certainly it's small fries compared to brutal assault. But we're not discussing those specific horrors in this thread, we're discussing mormon doctrine.

There seem to be a lot of 'small fries' within mormon doctrine, and judging from this thread changing doctrine is not an option. Everytime I've tried using logic to explain why perhaps things should be questioned within mormon doctrine the reply comes that god wants it this way.

I'm glad I live in a place where religious doctrine isn't fixed.

Well, we do claim to be led by prophets, who in turn receive direction from God. Given that, and that He would be the highest authority on everything, the fact that He says so is a perfectly good reason. And I am still unconvinced that it is such a big screaming deal that we discourage masturbation.
And the problem with using logic is that it is ultimately dependent on only what humans can observe and reason; if we want to become like God, we will have to depend on Him for guidance.

 

[ironduck]

But how can you know what god wants? You acknowledge that the profets are far from perfect and that even Joe Smith was wrong at times. So how can you know that you're right about this?

That's where logic and reason and empathy comes in. Instead of saying 'you shouldn't masturbate because god doesn't like it' or 'you shouldn't be with the person you love because god doesn't like homosexuality' perhaps you should question your prophets who time and again have been proven wrong - by what? By the very logic that you denounce in the above post!

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

When exactly were the prophets proven wrong by logic? What we have now may be illogical, but what they said, when they said it, is a different story.

I accept that which prophets (by which I mean those I accept as prophets) say, as prophesy (meaning not everything they say is) not just because someone I trust says it but because I have had spiritual experiences which I cannot begin to describe here that lead me to believe that they are true. If I am wrong, and end up missing out on a lifetime of masturbation, that is my loss, but that is a risk I am willing to take.

 

[ironduck]

When were the prophets proven wrong? Why, we can prove them wrong right here in this thread if you like. Where should we start? Ezekiel? Leviticus? Moses? Ah yes, let's take Moses. The good old ten commandments of Exodus chapter 20, right? But how about chapter 21 and onwards? Did Moses lose touch with god there? Because he states that anyone who curses their parents shall be put to death. He talks about the rights to have and sell slaves, including your own daughters. He talks about a lot of stuff that you probably don't agree with. But hey, what's that? He says it's the law of god! Gee, that's a mighty nice god, eh? Or maybe it's not really god at all, maybe it's just some people laying down a law and using god as a way to enforce it? What do you think?

Oh, and I really couldn't care less about your masturbation. You are trying to make light of an issue that is not about you at all, but it's clear you're not interested in putting in any effort to try to understand these things.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

That's the law of Moses, but I never said anything about that. I mean that I accept as prophesy things which have been said recently, not subject to millenia of reinterpretation and sifted through various cultures.

And given that we just spent two or three pages talking about Mormons and masturbation, I think that what I, a Mormon, have to say on the matter might be relevant, but maybe not. I never claimed that I didn't care about undertsanding where you're coming from - I think I explicitly said that I did understand it. Anyways, I was hoping we could keep the tone on this thread more civil. If not, whatever. I am signing off for today.

 

[ironduck]

Was Moses not a prophet? Was Ezekiel not a prophet? Was Leviticus not a prophet? They spoke the word of god, and you just asked 'when were they proven wrong by logic'? Why, right now, by you, even!

 

[ironduck]

What I said regarding masturbation was that I don't care what you specifically do. I was trying to explain what negative consequences banning masturbation has in a society as there has been plenty of research on this issue. THAT is what is relevant.

 

[Methos]

Wow! I come back this afternoon and find five additional pages! And whats bad is that they’re all about masturbation!?! I read for a while than just started skipping posts.

Is masturbating in front of your wife allowed, what about behind a closed door in the master bathroom?

You’ve brought this question up many times now, and every time it has been ignored. In other words, please drop it. To ask another man about his sexual life with his wife is extremely insulting and disrespectful.

Odd, it doesn't square with my observations.

I entirely agree with you. Subtract at least ten, if not more, and maybe.

Not to change the subject, but are there any other questions?

Oh please, let there be other questions. I’m beyond the age of thinking this topic even remotely amusing.

1.) Was Joseph Smith a saint?
2.) What’s Joseph Smith’s middle name?
3.) What’s the difference between LDS and RLDS?

Can’t think of anymore to switch subjects.

 

[ironduck]

Methos, there was a point to the whole 'are women allowed..' thing. The point is that if women aren't allowed to masturbate and thereby discover their own bodies they are significantly less likely to have a satisfying sex life.

For a god to deny a good sex life in a religion that talks about how life on earth is supposed to be a growth and experience makes absolutely no sense.

But of course, I was just told that logic should be discounted since we should just rely on god for guidance.