Alweth
Chieftain
I got it.
I'm pretty sure I'll do the trades. See what I can squeeze out of them.
I'm pretty sure I'll do the trades. See what I can squeeze out of them.
MB4 - GOTM24 Redux [civ3] Roster B
- Thread starter mad-bax
- Start date
gormdragan
King
@Alweth
Could you do me a favor and get my Score at the end of my turn?
Could you do me a favor and get my Score at the end of my turn?
MacBaldrick
Warlord
Gormdragan
Your score was 267 (an increase of 39).
Your score was 267 (an increase of 39).
gormdragan
King
@MacBaldrick
Thanks alot, appreciate it
Thanks alot, appreciate it
Peanut
A Slightly Nutty Flavour
Gormdragan has it right - pick the production "sweet spot" for Nagoya & get the terrain improvements to match it, then let it run.
Peanut
A Slightly Nutty Flavour
Trades : I agree - do the trades. Where there is a trade arbitrage opportunity we should grab it. The AI's will trade away any differences between themselves pretty quickly as at Emperor they value techs lower for eachother than for us.
Plus ... trading keeps the AI civs happier with us, meaning that we are more likely to be able to choose the time for war rather than have them doing it.
One way of thinking about tech purchases is to look at our maximum possible research spending (gpt) and convert the net sale price to a turns equivalent. When I managed to get Iron, Masonry, Mysticism & Bajitsu on an arbitrage sale for the equivalent of 141 gold, it was like getting each of them on a four turn research cycle (approx. 35 gold each @ 9gpt income). Researching them all ourselves would have been more like 10 turns each.
It's another way of looking at it ... but of course pointy stick research is a lot more fun and rewarding.
Another issue is to look at what the techs will do for us when deciding whether to buy them. If they won't give us added offensive and defensive capability (eg. Iron, Chivalry, Feudalism etc.) , or give opportunity for income growth (eg. Currency) then our cash may be better held back for upgrades with future research being the pointy stick variety. Any thoughts ?
Plus ... trading keeps the AI civs happier with us, meaning that we are more likely to be able to choose the time for war rather than have them doing it.
One way of thinking about tech purchases is to look at our maximum possible research spending (gpt) and convert the net sale price to a turns equivalent. When I managed to get Iron, Masonry, Mysticism & Bajitsu on an arbitrage sale for the equivalent of 141 gold, it was like getting each of them on a four turn research cycle (approx. 35 gold each @ 9gpt income). Researching them all ourselves would have been more like 10 turns each.
It's another way of looking at it ... but of course pointy stick research is a lot more fun and rewarding.
Another issue is to look at what the techs will do for us when deciding whether to buy them. If they won't give us added offensive and defensive capability (eg. Iron, Chivalry, Feudalism etc.) , or give opportunity for income growth (eg. Currency) then our cash may be better held back for upgrades with future research being the pointy stick variety. Any thoughts ?
Alweth
Chieftain
Are you guys expecting me to go to war with Tokugawa?
gormdragan
King
I wouldn't go to war against Tokugawa, I think we are no match for Tokugawa.
Alweth
Chieftain
Preturn
I do gorm's suggested trade with Tokugawa.
Kuroda: TM + Math for Calligraphy + 10g
Mori: Math + 4g + 4gpt for Contact with Chosogabe (Takeda wouldn't make any decent deals.)
Chosogabe have 45g and 7 cities.
Takeda: Math + Contact with Chosogabe + TM + 11g for Mapmaking
Chosogabe: WM + Contact with Kuroda for 45g + WM
Tokugawa: WM + Contact with Chosogabe for 45g + TM
Kuroda: WM for WM + 1g
Takeda: WM for WM + 10g
Mori: TM for WM + 11g
Turn 1 - 775BC
Ise: Warrior->Warrior
Turn 2 - 750BC
Yokkachi: Warrior->Warrior
Ogaki: Warrior->Warrior
Moriyama-ku founded: Worker
Turn 3 - 730BC
Handa: Warrior->Worker
Nagoya: Settler->Settler
Azuchi: Flagged Footman->Flagged Footman
Koromo: Warrior->Warrior
Turn 4 - 710BC
Mori and Tokugawa sign a peace treaty--d'oh.
Suzuka: Warrior->Worker
Ise: Warrior->Worker
Wow, Kuroda has left Tanabe completely undefended, but I resist the temptation, since it's not a good town.
Turn 5 - 690BC
Ogaki: Warrior->Flagged Footman
Koromo: Warrior->Flagged Footman
Turn 6 - 670BC
Yokkachi: Warrior->Barracks (so we can upgrade warriors there)
Azuchi: Flagged Footman->Warrior
Turn 7 - 650BC
Good News: Now we have horses.
Bad News: Now Tokugawa has Shamanism.
I'm going to leave us researching Shamanism (ETA 5 turns) and hope that we can get it and sell it to the other AIs before they get the money to buy it. Also, it's probably the cheapest way we're going to get it.
Nagoya: Settler->Settler
Ise: Worker->Worker
Change some places to making Horsemen instead of Warriors or Flagged Footmen
Kita-ku founded: Worker
Turn 8 - 630BC
Move some units.
Turn 9 - 610BC
Move some units some more.
Turn 10 - 590BC
Ogaki: Flagged Footman->Warrior
Ise: Worker->Worker
Azuchi: Horseman->Horseman
Summary
Well, not much happened. We need to look for another opportunity to fight a war. As soon as we get Shamanism, we should try to get a little money out of it. I really can't think of anything else to say.
Score: 321
mb4b-0590bc.zip
I do gorm's suggested trade with Tokugawa.
Kuroda: TM + Math for Calligraphy + 10g
Mori: Math + 4g + 4gpt for Contact with Chosogabe (Takeda wouldn't make any decent deals.)
Chosogabe have 45g and 7 cities.
Takeda: Math + Contact with Chosogabe + TM + 11g for Mapmaking
Chosogabe: WM + Contact with Kuroda for 45g + WM
Tokugawa: WM + Contact with Chosogabe for 45g + TM
Kuroda: WM for WM + 1g
Takeda: WM for WM + 10g
Mori: TM for WM + 11g
Turn 1 - 775BC
Ise: Warrior->Warrior
Turn 2 - 750BC
Yokkachi: Warrior->Warrior
Ogaki: Warrior->Warrior
Moriyama-ku founded: Worker
Turn 3 - 730BC
Handa: Warrior->Worker
Nagoya: Settler->Settler
Azuchi: Flagged Footman->Flagged Footman
Koromo: Warrior->Warrior
Turn 4 - 710BC
Mori and Tokugawa sign a peace treaty--d'oh.
Suzuka: Warrior->Worker
Ise: Warrior->Worker
Wow, Kuroda has left Tanabe completely undefended, but I resist the temptation, since it's not a good town.
Turn 5 - 690BC
Ogaki: Warrior->Flagged Footman
Koromo: Warrior->Flagged Footman
Turn 6 - 670BC
Yokkachi: Warrior->Barracks (so we can upgrade warriors there)
Azuchi: Flagged Footman->Warrior
Turn 7 - 650BC
Good News: Now we have horses.
Bad News: Now Tokugawa has Shamanism.
I'm going to leave us researching Shamanism (ETA 5 turns) and hope that we can get it and sell it to the other AIs before they get the money to buy it. Also, it's probably the cheapest way we're going to get it.
Nagoya: Settler->Settler
Ise: Worker->Worker
Change some places to making Horsemen instead of Warriors or Flagged Footmen
Kita-ku founded: Worker
Turn 8 - 630BC
Move some units.
Turn 9 - 610BC
Move some units some more.
Turn 10 - 590BC
Ogaki: Flagged Footman->Warrior
Ise: Worker->Worker
Azuchi: Horseman->Horseman
Summary
Well, not much happened. We need to look for another opportunity to fight a war. As soon as we get Shamanism, we should try to get a little money out of it. I really can't think of anything else to say.
Score: 321
mb4b-0590bc.zip
Peanut
A Slightly Nutty Flavour
The Shamanism Gambit :
Ah well, as the great philosopher Maxwell Smart often said, "Missed it by THAT much !". Perhaps we can still chalk up a few sales in a few turns.
If we can now build our UU (can we ?) then perhaps we should move towards some pointy stick research before the AIs reach Feudalism and can build more robust defenders.
Our UU is some sort of swordsman, isn't it ? I'm not quite sure so please someone enlighten this little Peanut.
Edit - this Peanut has mastered self-enlightenment! Kensia Oda = Super swordsman (4.2.1). So we probably ought to get a few battles under our belt before the AI's work out how to build Pikemen. I wonder if we should soon invite the Kuroda to step outside for a quiet chat about land and technology sharing ?
Ah well, as the great philosopher Maxwell Smart often said, "Missed it by THAT much !". Perhaps we can still chalk up a few sales in a few turns.
If we can now build our UU (can we ?) then perhaps we should move towards some pointy stick research before the AIs reach Feudalism and can build more robust defenders.
Our UU is some sort of swordsman, isn't it ? I'm not quite sure so please someone enlighten this little Peanut.
Edit - this Peanut has mastered self-enlightenment! Kensia Oda = Super swordsman (4.2.1). So we probably ought to get a few battles under our belt before the AI's work out how to build Pikemen. I wonder if we should soon invite the Kuroda to step outside for a quiet chat about land and technology sharing ?
MacBaldrick
Warlord
I have it. Will have a closer at situation tonight, e.g. how much gold is needed to upgrade warriors etc. and complete play tomorrow as I am now at work and will be out tonight. Also my extended edition DVD of The Two Towers arrives any day (3 1/2 hours less time to play 
Peanut - the real issue with Kensia Oda if our UU is it will trigger our GA. We will find out soon enough when this unit has a victory in future 'combat operations'.
Peanut - the real issue with Kensia Oda if our UU is it will trigger our GA. We will find out soon enough when this unit has a victory in future 'combat operations'.
Check the civilopedia on the Kensai Oda. The new units usually have an entry in there.
I think it would be our unique unit. It is better than a regular swordsman. It will be like playing with the Persians. I don't think we want to wait too long to strike out with a force of these guys even if that means a despotic golden age.
A screenshot of the known world would be nice too.
I think it would be our unique unit. It is better than a regular swordsman. It will be like playing with the Persians. I don't think we want to wait too long to strike out with a force of these guys even if that means a despotic golden age.
A screenshot of the known world would be nice too.
MacBaldrick
Warlord
gormdragan
King
Some thoughts.
I have this feeling Tokugawa is strong. Therefore, I would propose we strike on Kuroda(Mr Green) and secure our FP in Kuroda's territory. Once we have our 2nd ring of cores in place, we will have the industrial strength to come back and kill off Tokugawa (and I suspect Takeda will ally with Tokugawa against us).
I have this feeling Tokugawa is strong. Therefore, I would propose we strike on Kuroda(Mr Green) and secure our FP in Kuroda's territory. Once we have our 2nd ring of cores in place, we will have the industrial strength to come back and kill off Tokugawa (and I suspect Takeda will ally with Tokugawa against us).
We might want to get another settler out of Azuchi. Its size 6 with growth in 4. Send him 5 (or 6) SW of Azuchi to grab the gold mines. A city in there will only grow to size 5 but will be a shield and $ powerhouse. It will really rock after the grassland gets irrigated but thats a long long time away.
If we go after Green first we could surround Mishima with temples and maybe flip it over to us. Green might be an easier first victim as Gormdragon pointed out. Also the Tokugawan army will be marching back through out territory. We might consider selling him a ROP to expedite the process.
We also might want a port on the south coast (9S of Azuchi or 10SE). A galley or two might help especially if there is anything of value on that unconnected land south of Kita-Ku.
We seem to be catching up to the AI's. Good work everyone. Red has 12 cities, purple 10, green 7, orange 9 and yellow 8. We have 10.
If we go after Green first we could surround Mishima with temples and maybe flip it over to us. Green might be an easier first victim as Gormdragon pointed out. Also the Tokugawan army will be marching back through out territory. We might consider selling him a ROP to expedite the process.
We also might want a port on the south coast (9S of Azuchi or 10SE). A galley or two might help especially if there is anything of value on that unconnected land south of Kita-Ku.
We seem to be catching up to the AI's. Good work everyone. Red has 12 cities, purple 10, green 7, orange 9 and yellow 8. We have 10.
Alweth
Chieftain
That's the power of settler factories, which the AIs don't use, I think.
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2003
- Messages
- 5,242
I agree to taking on the green first. I would like to see us try to fight on two fronts fairly early. So East first, but then west. We can gain ground quicker by fighting close to home.
If the Kensai is our UU then I think we have to bite the bullet with a despotic GA and get to chivalry as soon as we can. With decreased tech rates it could be a while before we get republic. We must have fast units to conquer quickly IMO. We will not have enough workers to keep up with the advance.
The war on green should happen anytime soon, so I would road that iron now if it hasn't been already and just get on with it. Once we have upgraded our warriors and sent them east I think production should favour horses and they should be sent west as I think an FP in the West would be more beneficial as the island is "thicker" in that direction, and also getting the pyramids would be huge, and the longer the civ that has them now keeps them, the more difficult they will be to take.
If the Kensai is our UU then I think we have to bite the bullet with a despotic GA and get to chivalry as soon as we can. With decreased tech rates it could be a while before we get republic. We must have fast units to conquer quickly IMO. We will not have enough workers to keep up with the advance.
The war on green should happen anytime soon, so I would road that iron now if it hasn't been already and just get on with it. Once we have upgraded our warriors and sent them east I think production should favour horses and they should be sent west as I think an FP in the West would be more beneficial as the island is "thicker" in that direction, and also getting the pyramids would be huge, and the longer the civ that has them now keeps them, the more difficult they will be to take.
MacBaldrick
Warlord
590 BC 390 BC
Turn 0 590 BC
General situation Substantial numbers of warriors which will take a lot of gold to upgrade concentrate on vets with regular units switched to MP duties. Get iron hooked up for those upgrades. Tokugawa seems to be the leading AI with all the techs and most gold so must be our strategic target but not till our peace treaty expires (10 turns) as reputation still has some value. Kuroda (green) is weak so we can take most of his western cities (probably leave eastern cities as buffer against Mori) then make peace and switch to west we must ally with Takeda otherwise they will gang up with considerable resources.
Turn 1 570 BC
Koromo builds horseman worker
EOT Discover Shamanism > Monarchy
Turn 2 550 BC
Moriyami-Ku builds worker > warrior
Move workers to Road cattle south of Moriyami-Ku
Move horsemen East, move regular warrior to core cities to release vet warriors.
EOT Trade Mori (orange) Shamanism for Confusanism, trade Takeda (red) Wm for WM+ 2g, Kuroda (green) WM for WM + 40g, Chosogabe (yellow) WM for WM + 4g (keep em poor)
Turn 3 530 BC
Tokkachi builds barracks horseman, Suzuka builds worker warrior. Road to East complete.
Turn 4 510 BC
Set 3 workers to mine iron. Continue building roads in east. Move settler down S coast to river with 2 lambs.
Takeda is at war with Mori
Turn 5 490 BC
Turn 6 470 BC
Found Kasugai in East (builds warrior) & Ichinomiya in South (builds temple)
Cost of Civil Service remains Wm + 250g & contact with Shimazu WM + 210 g.
Establish embassy with Mori (52g) as we will need treaty to keep him out of wars to come.
Turn 7 450 BC
Road to iron complete.
Spend almost all our money on upgrades to Kensai Oda swordsmen.
Turn 8 430 BC
Turn 9 410 BC
Turn 10 390 BC
Generally repositioning units.
Review Steady building forces with upgrade of warriors to Kensai Oda & horsemen but not enough money for all. Foreign troops passing through territory is a pain but how do we get some money for ROPs ? Dont want to risk unplanned war.
Perhaps we should rush a galley on the south coast and see if we can contact a new AI civ (Han is out there check wonders screen).
Score 382 (+61).
Turn 0 590 BC
General situation Substantial numbers of warriors which will take a lot of gold to upgrade concentrate on vets with regular units switched to MP duties. Get iron hooked up for those upgrades. Tokugawa seems to be the leading AI with all the techs and most gold so must be our strategic target but not till our peace treaty expires (10 turns) as reputation still has some value. Kuroda (green) is weak so we can take most of his western cities (probably leave eastern cities as buffer against Mori) then make peace and switch to west we must ally with Takeda otherwise they will gang up with considerable resources.
Turn 1 570 BC
Koromo builds horseman worker
EOT Discover Shamanism > Monarchy
Turn 2 550 BC
Moriyami-Ku builds worker > warrior
Move workers to Road cattle south of Moriyami-Ku
Move horsemen East, move regular warrior to core cities to release vet warriors.
EOT Trade Mori (orange) Shamanism for Confusanism, trade Takeda (red) Wm for WM+ 2g, Kuroda (green) WM for WM + 40g, Chosogabe (yellow) WM for WM + 4g (keep em poor)
Turn 3 530 BC
Tokkachi builds barracks horseman, Suzuka builds worker warrior. Road to East complete.
Turn 4 510 BC
Set 3 workers to mine iron. Continue building roads in east. Move settler down S coast to river with 2 lambs.
Takeda is at war with Mori
Turn 5 490 BC
Turn 6 470 BC
Found Kasugai in East (builds warrior) & Ichinomiya in South (builds temple)
Cost of Civil Service remains Wm + 250g & contact with Shimazu WM + 210 g.
Establish embassy with Mori (52g) as we will need treaty to keep him out of wars to come.
Turn 7 450 BC
Road to iron complete.
Spend almost all our money on upgrades to Kensai Oda swordsmen.
Turn 8 430 BC
Turn 9 410 BC
Turn 10 390 BC
Generally repositioning units.
Review Steady building forces with upgrade of warriors to Kensai Oda & horsemen but not enough money for all. Foreign troops passing through territory is a pain but how do we get some money for ROPs ? Dont want to risk unplanned war.
Perhaps we should rush a galley on the south coast and see if we can contact a new AI civ (Han is out there check wonders screen).
Score 382 (+61).
