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Yoda Power
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Azmorg, Lizardmen and Lou you are all in. 
Here is what I'm interested in.
Some civ are intended to be more powerfull than others. Zangids should be very strong, despite their small size, and Syria/Damascus shouldn't be very strong despite it's size. Please observe if that actually happens.
Does the ai actually conquer the nearby cities, when it plays as the crusader states.
Please make some sceenshots of your games, that would be great.
There are some more stuff I want you to look out for, but I can't recall it all now, I'll write here if anything comes to my mind. Obviously game reports and your own thoughts, observations and questions are much appreciated.
Use this thread for discussions. That's easiest I guess.
I will find a way to send the file to you today, stay tuned!
Here is what I'm interested in.
Some civ are intended to be more powerfull than others. Zangids should be very strong, despite their small size, and Syria/Damascus shouldn't be very strong despite it's size. Please observe if that actually happens.
Does the ai actually conquer the nearby cities, when it plays as the crusader states.
Please make some sceenshots of your games, that would be great.
There are some more stuff I want you to look out for, but I can't recall it all now, I'll write here if anything comes to my mind. Obviously game reports and your own thoughts, observations and questions are much appreciated.
Use this thread for discussions. That's easiest I guess.
I will find a way to send the file to you today, stay tuned!
This crusader states scenario looks really interesting! Shame I've not got the time to playtest, but I'm looking forward to its release.
Probably i will try to take anything to the east of this line. So the major war would be against the Fatimids
I already have 10 bombards, and 40 late knights, but i will send at least three armies there as well..
RedwallFortress
Necromancer Emperor
How many turm will there be in 
the crusader states scenario?
the crusader states scenario?
Yoda Power
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200 turns, each representing one year.
Alan McG
Cannelloni
looking forward to it!!
Azmorg, Lizardmen and Lou you are all in.
Hurray!!! I'm in! I'm in! I'm in!
I feel like I'm a kid again and I just got picked first for dodge ball.
I'm gonna be the best darned crusadingist state you all ever seen.
Started playing already as Jerusalem on Squire level.
See map:
It is perhaps too easy. But then I have just started and methinks there are nasties waiting for me later on. Until then, I shall take great delight in raining tremendous blows for Christendom down upon the heads of the infidel.
Spoiler :
See map:
Spoiler :
It is perhaps too easy. But then I have just started and methinks there are nasties waiting for me later on. Until then, I shall take great delight in raining tremendous blows for Christendom down upon the heads of the infidel.
Due to HRE and Kiev the game is now ruined...
And just as i was completing my massive Danubean border wall (a smaller one was also built in the Caucasus) :
The plan was to be ready for a huge war against Kiev, arming each castle with three pikemen and two bombards, then leading the conquest in the Crimea with all my armies.
But it now seems that the game is over since pretty soon HRE will own everything in the west.
Yoda Power
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Too bad Varw. :/
Ahh you cheater. In all scenarios you can make easy alliances in the first turn, normally people just don't do it. I'm pretty sure it's just some civ3 bug we can't do anything about.
Ahh you cheater. In all scenarios you can make easy alliances in the first turn, normally people just don't do it. I'm pretty sure it's just some civ3 bug we can't do anything about.
Alan McG
Cannelloni
Too bad Varw. :/
Ahh you cheater. In all scenarios you can make easy alliances in the first turn, normally people just don't do it. I'm pretty sure it's just some civ3 bug we can't do anything about.
Really? I always make alliances as soon as possible, if you don't do it in the first turn, won't the AI mostly do it against you in the second?
LMR
Back In Green!
I started playing as Edessa, and i found it very easy to expand into Turkish lands to the north and one to the south. As you can see from the second spoiler, Jeruselum has almost conquered all the Fatimid territory east of the Sinai. The Zangids have also started their expansion. This is after 11 years
Spoiler :
Spoiler :
Mirc
Not mIRC!!!
And just as i was completing my massive Danubean border wall (a smaller one was also built in the Caucasus) :
The plan was to be ready for a huge war against Kiev, arming each castle with three pikemen and two bombards, then leading the conquest in the Crimea with all my armies.
But it now seems that the game is over since pretty soon HRE will own everything in the west.
Don't give up! You can conquer Kiev from two sides now. Just be quicker than you normally would. The HRE isn't going to be faster than you.
embryodead
Caliph
Azmorg said:
I can only confirm what Yoda has said. This is a known Civ3 bug - the player just has to deal with it and do not make any deals with the AI on the first turn. This was reported as soon as C3C came out and wasn't fixed - e.g. thanks to this, you can win the Napoleonic Conquest in C3C in 1 turn (by asking the AI for cities - it'll agree).
BTW I guess I suck a lot - I played as Antioch and *lost* in 22 minutes on king level (I didn't make any alliances though, on the contrary, I had Armenia and Byzantium against me very quickly).
Yoda Power
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I'm considering removing the military alliance to some tech, but I'm not sure which one. I want them to be available fairly early, but not from turn one. In the meantime, try not to make MA's in the first turn. 
The real challenge is beating the other civs, because you need to keep expanding if you want to win.
But then everything is going as planned. I guess I should have made it a bit more clear that in order to simulate history, the first couple of turns should be spend on establishing the crusader states borders. This means that Jerusalem should occupy an area about the size of modern Israel, and that Edessa should conquer all the surrounding emirate cities.I started playing as Edessa, and i found it very easy to expand into Turkish lands to the north and one to the south. As you can see from the second spoiler, Jeruselum has almost conquered all the Fatimid territory east of the Sinai. The Zangids have also started their expansion. This is after 11 years
Spoiler :
Spoiler :
The real challenge is beating the other civs, because you need to keep expanding if you want to win.
RedwallFortress
Necromancer Emperor
Hello Yoda and embryodead.
I am still advocating that you should think about a Norman conquests scenario. I am not saying that you should make it right now, but in should be represented. To show what an important period it was I will write a short History:
The Normans in the Mediterranean.
In the early 1000s, some Normans decided to go on a pilgrimage to Jerusalem (then under the Fatimid Caliphate). They went into Italy to buy passage to the Holy Land by ship. However, they liked Italy so much that they decided to stay. They found work as mercenaries for Italian lords, who held their services in high regard. They married the pretty Italian ladies and had a lot of sons. When these sons grew up, they formed a small army which grew bigger with the arrival of new knights from Normandy. They decided to fight for themselves.
In 1053, one of them, Robert Guiscard led an invasion of Southern Italy, fighting against the Pope's own army. The Normans captured the pope, and held him prisoner while giving him the utmost respect. Finally the pope was forced to give his blessing to Robert as King of Calabria (the "toe" of the Italian Boot).
The Byzantine Empire furiously berated the pope. Guiscard was a reckless, ruthless man, with obvious ambitions on the Greeks profitable Italian holdings. The pope retorted that if the Byzantines were so worried about the Normans, they should have helped him. This started a shouting match between Rome and Constantinople. One thing led to another, and in 1054 the pope excommunicated the entire Eastern Church. This split or Schism has not healed to this day.
None of this troubled Robert Guiscard in the least. In 1060, he sent his younger brother Roger with an army to Sicily to try their arms against the islands Muslim rulers.
In 1071 the Byzantines suffered a crushing defeat by the Turks at Manzikert. Instantly taking advantage, Robert attacked them in Italy. He tool Bari, so depraving them of their most important Western navy base. While the Byzantines fumbled, Robert decided to take the war to Constantinople. He build ships and in 1081, the Normans landed in Greece. They then preceded to beat the Imperial troops in several battles. Still Robert's losses were heavy, he had to go home for more men and supplies.
This turned out to be easy, as his navy had been destroyed by the Venetians.
Still he somehow thought of a way back to Italy. He managed to raise more men, but where to get the supplies?
On May 1084, his army entered Rome and plundered it as it hadn't been plundered for centuries. Then suddenly in 1085, Robert Guiscard fell ill and died in the arms of his second wife.
When Guiscard died his oldest son Bohemond was still in Greece. Urged by his second wife, Robert had disinherited him in favor of her son Roger.
As it turned out, Bohemond had the same attitude in life as his father. Bohemond attacked his half-brother with the help of his uncle Roger I of Sicily (Guiscard's younger brother had finally gained control of the huge island after thirty years of war).
With his uncle's aid Bohemond made himself prince of Toronto. But this was not nearly enough for him. He wanted to control all of his fathers lands, and to fulfill Roberts dream of conquering Constantinople. But for this he would need a bigger power base and a lot of money, nether of which he could easily acquire.
Then in 1095, Pope Urban II called for a crusade. Bohemond instantly seeing his chance signed up. In the rich and decadent Levant, he could seize the land and wealth he needed. He and his Norman Knights formed the cream of the First Crusade. Bohemonds tactical skills saved the others many times.
When the they reached the Holy Land, the armies of different crusading princes veered off to win lands for them selves.
Bohemond conquered the huge, rich, and ancient city of Antioch. Under his supervision was established The Principality of Antioch, second in strength only to the Kingdom of Jerusalem among the Crusader States.
A few years later Bohemond came back to Italy to organize a war on the Byzantine Empire. Using his fame as crusader, he raised a large army, but in the end his luck run out. He lost the war and had to submit to a humiliating peace
Returning from Greece a broken man, he never left his Italian holdings again.
You can still see his simple tomb in Southern Italy.
Edit: Thanks Stormrage, I fixed my
Spelling.
I am still advocating that you should think about a Norman conquests scenario. I am not saying that you should make it right now, but in should be represented. To show what an important period it was I will write a short History:
The Normans in the Mediterranean.
In the early 1000s, some Normans decided to go on a pilgrimage to Jerusalem (then under the Fatimid Caliphate). They went into Italy to buy passage to the Holy Land by ship. However, they liked Italy so much that they decided to stay. They found work as mercenaries for Italian lords, who held their services in high regard. They married the pretty Italian ladies and had a lot of sons. When these sons grew up, they formed a small army which grew bigger with the arrival of new knights from Normandy. They decided to fight for themselves.
In 1053, one of them, Robert Guiscard led an invasion of Southern Italy, fighting against the Pope's own army. The Normans captured the pope, and held him prisoner while giving him the utmost respect. Finally the pope was forced to give his blessing to Robert as King of Calabria (the "toe" of the Italian Boot).
The Byzantine Empire furiously berated the pope. Guiscard was a reckless, ruthless man, with obvious ambitions on the Greeks profitable Italian holdings. The pope retorted that if the Byzantines were so worried about the Normans, they should have helped him. This started a shouting match between Rome and Constantinople. One thing led to another, and in 1054 the pope excommunicated the entire Eastern Church. This split or Schism has not healed to this day.
None of this troubled Robert Guiscard in the least. In 1060, he sent his younger brother Roger with an army to Sicily to try their arms against the islands Muslim rulers.
In 1071 the Byzantines suffered a crushing defeat by the Turks at Manzikert. Instantly taking advantage, Robert attacked them in Italy. He tool Bari, so depraving them of their most important Western navy base. While the Byzantines fumbled, Robert decided to take the war to Constantinople. He build ships and in 1081, the Normans landed in Greece. They then preceded to beat the Imperial troops in several battles. Still Robert's losses were heavy, he had to go home for more men and supplies.
This turned out to be easy, as his navy had been destroyed by the Venetians.
Still he somehow thought of a way back to Italy. He managed to raise more men, but where to get the supplies?
On May 1084, his army entered Rome and plundered it as it hadn't been plundered for centuries. Then suddenly in 1085, Robert Guiscard fell ill and died in the arms of his second wife.
When Guiscard died his oldest son Bohemond was still in Greece. Urged by his second wife, Robert had disinherited him in favor of her son Roger.
As it turned out, Bohemond had the same attitude in life as his father. Bohemond attacked his half-brother with the help of his uncle Roger I of Sicily (Guiscard's younger brother had finally gained control of the huge island after thirty years of war).
With his uncle's aid Bohemond made himself prince of Toronto. But this was not nearly enough for him. He wanted to control all of his fathers lands, and to fulfill Roberts dream of conquering Constantinople. But for this he would need a bigger power base and a lot of money, nether of which he could easily acquire.
Then in 1095, Pope Urban II called for a crusade. Bohemond instantly seeing his chance signed up. In the rich and decadent Levant, he could seize the land and wealth he needed. He and his Norman Knights formed the cream of the First Crusade. Bohemonds tactical skills saved the others many times.
When the they reached the Holy Land, the armies of different crusading princes veered off to win lands for them selves.
Bohemond conquered the huge, rich, and ancient city of Antioch. Under his supervision was established The Principality of Antioch, second in strength only to the Kingdom of Jerusalem among the Crusader States.
A few years later Bohemond came back to Italy to organize a war on the Byzantine Empire. Using his fame as crusader, he raised a large army, but in the end his luck run out. He lost the war and had to submit to a humiliating peace
Returning from Greece a broken man, he never left his Italian holdings again.
You can still see his simple tomb in Southern Italy.
Edit: Thanks Stormrage, I fixed my
Spelling.
Stormrage
Ever Present Taskmaster
Thats great. Now re-check your spelling
LMR
Back In Green!
I'm considering removing the military alliance to some tech, but I'm not sure which one. I want them to be available fairly early, but not from turn one. In the meantime, try not to make MA's in the first turn.
But then everything is going as planned. I guess I should have made it a bit more clear that in order to simulate history, the first couple of turns should be spend on establishing the crusader states borders. This means that Jerusalem should occupy an area about the size of modern Israel, and that Edessa should conquer all the surrounding emirate cities.
The real challenge is beating the other civs, because you need to keep expanding if you want to win.
I havent made any MA, but have been drawn into war with Armenia and the Byzantines because of the locked alliance.
you are right about the expansion; i've expanded as much as i can, but are now completely surrounded by the Zangids, which means war very soon
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