Men want 'say' in unplanned pregnancy

[Yom]

If the kid is born while in the relationship, and the man bails, then he should pay. If the man's seed is unexpectantly potent after a one night stand, then no, he should not pay.

 

[Urederra]

If the kid is born while in the relationship, and the man bails, then he should pay. If the man's seed is unexpectantly potent after a one night stand, then no, he should not pay.

You could have read the first post before writting your opinion.

 

[ainwood]

huh? condoms arent failsafe either.

Look at the context - it was in response to someone saying "What if the woman told you she was on the pill" - my point is that the pill isn't 100% effective, so you should use a condom even if she tells you that.

 

[Moss]

Because he was a willing participant in the event which led to the child existing. If you can't take the responsibility for the results of sex, don't have sex. There, simple, solved.

Agree completely...

and I must say, I'm absolutely shocked at the results of this poll...

of course, maybe not considering the OT population...

 

[ummmm........]

You've got to look at how the options are worded . . .

 

[Moss]

what's confusing about the options?

 

[ummmm........]

Yes, he is responsible for the pregnancy...blah blah.

No he's not. He shares responsibility with someone else.

No, men should have a choice, too. If the woman keeps the kid...blah blah.

Yes, men should also have a choice. It's unfortunate and unfair that no practical alternative can offer them one.

 

[Elrohir]

over the subject at large i feel that it is unfair to say to a woman that she must get an abortion because you refuse to support a child. abortions have emotional and sometimes physical consequences. in a perfect world the law could be fair then again in a perfect world 99% effective would be an absolute guarantee(if it were so some of us wouldn't be here), crazy people wouldn't lie about being sterile, and farts would smell like rainbow sherbert.

Which leaves you with the option of, suprise suprise, not having sex until you're married. Or at least until you're ready to have kids. Of course it's going to be tough on these women without men being forced to help them - but maybe they, and the women around them, will wise up a little bit and not sleep around quite so much the next time.

And yes, to be fair, the men who get them pregnent shouldn't sleep around so much either, and yes I actually do think men should take responsibility for their actions and care for their child and the women they knocked up. But they shouldn't be forced to, unless women are forced to have the same lack of "choice". Fair's fair.

 

[Mise]

I don't even buy the 'not fair' argument, but even if I did agree that it wasn't fair, guess what...life isn't fair.

No, but our legal system should be.

 

[Gladi]

Bright day
I feel this guy was "scammed", yeah maybe this is scam that had been going on for long and I myself have been born out of it- but it is still a scam.

And why do men have to pay in ALL cases? Surely if there is general agreement that they don't want a child and after "accident" woman does last minute turn-around and keeps the kid to herself and man has to pay for something that was agaganist their agreement?

 

[Grisu]

some of my thoughts:

1) even if you use contraception: the guy's still partially responsible for the kid. no contraceptive method is failproof (not even vasectomy). so if you have sex, you should be aware that despite all precautions you can still get her pregnant. if you can't live with that, you'll have no choice but to stay away from sex.

2) I'm not happy either with the situation as it is. Not because the guy has to pay, but because he often doesn't get any parental rights. If the man pays child support he should get the parental rights as well (except of course if he's some kind of sociopath).

3) It's a bit sad to see that the discussion here only focuses around the rights of the mother/father and not about the kid. child support is paid for the kid, not the mother, it's the kid that suffers if it don't get support. Furthermore, people here seem to assume that for the woman a abortion is an easy thing. it's not like going to buy some groceries, so the argument: "well, you could have gotten an abortion, so don't expect child support now" just doesn't hold for me


just my 2 cents

 

[HannibalBarka]

Absolutly, no doubt about it, and for two reasons:
1. All laws aren't necessarily "fare" for each individual. I know that in France, kids have the obligation to take care of their parents when they can, even if the parent in question was not a good parent to you, and even if you did not really choose him. This law, although some times "unfair", is necessary to the society, family being the "basis" of it. So, making it mandatory for this guy to take care of his kid goes under this reason: It is his kid, even if he did not choose it, thus, he has to care after him.
2. Man can't have any say about abortion for the simple reason that Abortion is not about "having/not having a kid" but about "having/not having control over one's body". That is the reason why abortion is limited in the pregnency period and is allowed for the only period where the legislator considered the foetus as being "no person". That is the reason why I find it completly normal for the man not have any say about aborting or no, since it will actually goes even against "the right to have full control of one's body".

 

[general_kill]

It sounds like you have absolutely no idea about the emotional implications of an abortion. I am personally pro-choice, but a lot of that comes from my belief that a man has zero right to make decisions about what a woman does with her body.

Your whole argument sounds like its based on financial implications - that a man should be able to force a woman into an abortion to save him some cash.

"You have an abortion, so I don't have to pay. Otherwise, I won't pay anyway".

Where's the compromise?

Yea wheres the compromise for men? Women need to stop abusing their legal status. If they don't want a child then don't have sex. If they have sex, they need to be prepared to either take care of the soon to be born child financially, or they should be prepared to have an abortion. The fact is, unplanned pregnancy is a mistake of both parties, but men gets no say or rights what so ever.

 

[JohnRM]

I hope that these poll results are not consistent with the general population.

Note: As of early Friday (3/10) it was 2-1 for 'No', it has since come even 34 -35)

 

[bhsup]

If they don't want a child then don't have sex.

I'll quote the relevant part of your post. That part above applies equally to men and women, and the consequenses should as well.

Yes, men should be able to veto a woman's decision to abort a child (but that's just the law at the moment). Yes, men should have equal say in the raising of a child, but that isn't always the case. However, just because those two conditions are not always met, it doesn't mean the man is somehow magically not responsible for the creation of a child and responsible for its well-being.

ANY MAN WHO THINKS THEY SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO FORCE A WOMAN TO HAVE AN ABORTION OR THINKS THEY SHOULD NOT BE FINANCIALLY RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY CHILD SHOULD BE FORCIBLY CASTRATED SO THEY CAN NEVER BE PUT IN THAT POSITION TO BEGIN WITH.

My only all caps sentence in OT that I know of, but it's so important a point that I wanted to make sure nobody misses it. And you all who feel that you're not responsible for kids you help make had better pray to whatever God you worship that I'm never made dictator of the world...your family jewels will be the first things I take care of.

 

[AngryPants]

Yet another societal problem that could have been prevented by the proper use of condoms. I vote we install Trojan Man as President for Life, His Vice President can be the two guys from the Bacardi and Cola commercials.

 

[Mathilda]

2) I'm not happy either with the situation as it is. Not because the guy has to pay, but because he often doesn't get any parental rights. If the man pays child support he should get the parental rights as well (except of course if he's some kind of sociopath).

This thouhgt that has been repeated by several posters confuses me.
Is it really common that a father, who wants parental rights ie. joint custody doesn't get it, despite of being in a postition to be able to look after the child?

 

[Grisu]

This thouhgt that has been repeated by several posters confuses me.
Is it really common that a father, who wants parental rights ie. joint custody doesn't get it, despite of being in a postition to be able to look after the child?

well, I'm by no means an expert, but I've heard of several cases around me that when the mother wants sole custody, she more often than not gets it. It just seems that the mother is the 'default' option for custody. But as I said, this isn't really an objective opinion, as I have in no way made a representative study, or similar, it's just the way it appears to me

 

[Urederra]

Agree completely...

and I must say, I'm absolutely shocked at the results of this poll...

of course, maybe not considering the OT population...

Maybe because some people have read the article posted in the first post BEFORE taking the poll. And if you read the article it says clearly that the woman lied to him. She said several times that she cannot get pregnant, but that wasn't true. She only wanted to have a baby and keep it for herself, If she wants that, it is fine, but then the man does not have to pay anything.

Besides, if the man pays a monthly allowance, he must receive something in return. So, how about sharing the baby?

It looks to me that most people only see children as a nuisance, not something you can enjoy. For God's sake, there are also advantages of having babies besides the way you conceive them, and most couples in the world are thinking in those advantages when they talk about having babies, it is not only sex.

How do you explain the fact that many sterile couples want to foster a baby then? The father in this case is paying $500 a month but he is not allowed to enjoy the advantages of having a son or daughter. It is that fair? even after you know that she lied to him? (Or at least that is what he alleged)

 

[Mathilda]

Just discussed this with AVN and it seems that it's probably different in different countries.
In Finland joint custody seems to be the default option.
Sole custody mainly comes into question if one of the parents doesn't want to be involved.
So that must have been just my narrow sightedness, not realising how different it is in other countries.