Mic4 - AWM
- Thread starter microbe
- Start date
Justus II
General Staff
Got it, have to finish up turns in another SG tonight, but I should be able to get both in.
Embassies are a good question, it seems like some valuable intelligence, but depends on when we have to declare war. Arathorn's variant listing says standard AW means declaring at end of turn, which should make Embassies OK, but I've seen variants where you must declare before leaving the diplo screen, making embassies impossible, so I guess it's Microbe's call. I do believe, from reading several games, that going to the diplo screen later, just to see what the AI has (cities, techs, resources, etc) is OK as long as you don't actually make peace. Is that correct?
I'd prefer Pharsalos to be a tile closer, but we can build a couple towns within 3 (one W of Thermo, and one N or NE). The Lava will make settling that hill a pain, I believe it must be cleared first. I also don't know about roading and/or colonies in lava, can it be done? Rather than the hill, I'd prefer one on the coast, adjacent to the river, but still within 3 of Thermo and Pharsalos.
The tile one north of the Volcano would be nice, getting the Iron and Game, but I don't like being surrounded by mountains where attackers can fortify.
I'll have to take a closer look when I get home.
Since we see iron, would it be worth getting out some cheap warriors for upgrades to sword before we connect? It would at least fill some of our empty cities in the meantime, and allow us to push better units to the front.
Embassies are a good question, it seems like some valuable intelligence, but depends on when we have to declare war. Arathorn's variant listing says standard AW means declaring at end of turn, which should make Embassies OK, but I've seen variants where you must declare before leaving the diplo screen, making embassies impossible, so I guess it's Microbe's call. I do believe, from reading several games, that going to the diplo screen later, just to see what the AI has (cities, techs, resources, etc) is OK as long as you don't actually make peace. Is that correct?
I'd prefer Pharsalos to be a tile closer, but we can build a couple towns within 3 (one W of Thermo, and one N or NE). The Lava will make settling that hill a pain, I believe it must be cleared first. I also don't know about roading and/or colonies in lava, can it be done? Rather than the hill, I'd prefer one on the coast, adjacent to the river, but still within 3 of Thermo and Pharsalos.
The tile one north of the Volcano would be nice, getting the Iron and Game, but I don't like being surrounded by mountains where attackers can fortify.
I'll have to take a closer look when I get home.
Since we see iron, would it be worth getting out some cheap warriors for upgrades to sword before we connect? It would at least fill some of our empty cities in the meantime, and allow us to push better units to the front.
microbe
Cascaded Mansion
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2003
- Messages
- 4,596
Hmm, I don't know if it's me or not, I always stay away from volcano. I've seen AI capital got burned in Industrial Ages in my game. So I would avoid settling directly next to it. The spot NE to red dot seems appropriate except that it's not 3-tile away, but we can always fix it by planting another city. In the short term, maybe just colony would work?
For Pharsalos, a town 2 tiles SW to the rightmost wheat would be good to have (or the forest).
For Pharsalos, a town 2 tiles SW to the rightmost wheat would be good to have (or the forest).
Justus II
General Staff
I like the idea of avoiding the volcano. I'd really like to see what's on the other side of those mountains also, I'd prefer to expand beyond them if we can, or else keep back a tile or two from them. Giving the AI a mountain range to approach us along makes it harder to kill them. A well-defended colony may have to suffice for now.
lurker's comment:
Thermopylae and Pharsalos are 4 squares appart. I suggest putting a city within 3 of both of those two cities. It will allow you to shuffle defenders across your empire. Otherwise you can't do the defender shuffle as effectively and the town is at slightly greater risk
Thermopylae and Pharsalos are 4 squares appart. I suggest putting a city within 3 of both of those two cities. It will allow you to shuffle defenders across your empire. Otherwise you can't do the defender shuffle as effectively and the town is at slightly greater risk
Nick014
Deposed Despot
My proposed city sites (Sorry, can't make a dotmap 
)
3 tiles S of Pharsalos
3 NE of Thermopylae
1 NE of grs' dot
Advantages:
-3 tile spacing all around
-Gets the iron, but avoids the volcano
)3 tiles S of Pharsalos
3 NE of Thermopylae
1 NE of grs' dot
Advantages:
-3 tile spacing all around
-Gets the iron, but avoids the volcano
handy900
Deity
Justus II said:
1. Yes. We play this way.
2. I'd use the warriors for MP. You should be putting all your cash into research, so upgrades are not usually possible in the early game. When you get to AWE you definitely won't have much upgrade cash, so if this is a practice game, you may want to play it that way.
Don't neglect workers, and Good Luck!
GR2 is a good AWM game to read for ideas / strategy.
Note that embassies don't give information when you are at war, so you can't use them to tell when two civs are at war. It does locate the capitol which can be worth while.
I generally think they should be allowed because they are "one-turn" in terms of usefulness. How is trading a tech allowed but a short visit to scout their capitol by sending an embassy not?
I generally think they should be allowed because they are "one-turn" in terms of usefulness. How is trading a tech allowed but a short visit to scout their capitol by sending an embassy not?
Justus II
General Staff
1500BC (0): Look over our situation, and while I agree we need more of everything, right now Im focusing on getting our settlers out and getting a few more workers. Delphi is stuck in the tundra, and I dont see much point in a barracks for an unproductive, backline town, especially when Sparta is going to take that BG tile back soon. So I swap to a worker there. Pharsalos has more food than shields, as was mentioned, so it swaps from Granary to worker. Athens switches to a settler, so we can start connecting our dots. Move a warrior from Corinth north to explore a bit.
IBT: Forest chop completes the temple in Sparta, which starts our pre-build (Pyramids). Mayan warrior attacks our archer stack, inflicts 1hp but dies.
1475BC (1): Warrior from Corinth spots a barb warrior (I guess we dont have to declare on them
).
IBT: Barb moves back into the fog.
1450 (2): Spot blue border N of Pharsalos, send a warrior/archer pair along the mountains to take a look.
1425 (3): Spot 2 huts, one by our Curragh, who seems to have found a small island SW of Corinth, and one by the warrior N of Corinth. MM Athens to get the settler out.
IBT: Barb attacks our warrior, redlining him but dies. Athens-Settler>Hoplite, Delphi-Worker>worker.
1400 (4): Move settler N to a spot between Corinth and Pharsalos. 3S of Pharsalos would be off the river, and still take a river crossing, 3N of Corinth is on a river, and still 3 from Pharsalos, and can share the wheat. (The spot was covered by fog earlier).
IBT: Spot a Jav thrower by the borders. Thermo-Settler>Hoplite, Pharsalos-Worker>worker.
1375 (5): Spot a Mayan warrior also, move settler from Thermo toward coast (3NE spot). I fortify my archer on the mountain, wait for the Jav to get closer.
1350 (6): Our vet archer loses 2hp killing the regular Jav (Im glad, I really didnt want to trigger their GA just yet, we need more troops). Warrior moves to cover the archer.
1325 (7): Pop the hut, get Scythian barbs (Mayans would have popped it next turn anyway, so I thought I may as well get the goodies if there are any). Knossos is founded on the coast 3NE of Thermo, start on a worker.
IBT: One of the barbs kills our warrior, see another Mayan warrior from the north.
1300 (8): Vet archer kills reg Mayan warrior, another vet archer loses 1hp killing a barb. Argos is founded 3N of Corinth, starts a barracks. We can talk to the Mayans, they have 5 cities, still up only Mysticism, and have no luxes or resources.
IBT: Barb warrior attacks our archer, promoting him to Elite! Mayans send a spear/settler pair out from Copan. The Mayan vet warrior up north gets lucky, losing 2hp to kill our vet archer on a mountain.
1275 (9): Ive got an archer to trail the settler pair, and another moving to hit it if we get lucky.
1250 (10): Writing is discovered, I start on Literature, due in 13 at 1gpt deficit. I guess the earlier Embassy debate was somewhat academic, as our advisor reminds me we can NOW establish them.
Ive focused on developing the BGs near Sparta, and trying to connect some roads. Unfortunately, most of our 3-tile routes require roading through the mountains, so it will be slow, the more workers the better. Note that the Settler build in Athens is a placeholder for a Horseman, same with the Hoplite in Thermo. The road segment will complete this turn, so they can swap next turn, or you can leave them to complete. With our limited defenders and un-connected cities, Horses might be better for shifting forces until we get more defenses in place.
I couldnt decide where the best spot for the Iron city is, so I didnt build one yet! The hill NE of the lava would be OK, but will be more than 3 from any other city except Knossos, and theres a river there. I like the grass S of the game, but its still adjacent to the volcano. Still dont know if we can road/colony through lava, so that might be a good question to answer first.
Heres our lands:
Research: Obviously we dont know how the rest of the world is doing, but we dont really need Literature until our pre-build is closer to completion. We can do it now, just to get it out of the way, or we could research something else (Math, maybe) and come back for it. We could also try the Philo gambit, using that to get either Math or Map-Making as a free tech, then get Lit. Just some suggestions, since we got Writing this turn, we havent sunk any research into Lit yet.
Roster:
microbe
gozpel
grs
Justus II - Just played
6thGenTexan - up
Nick014 - on deck
The Save:
EDIT: Hmm, somehow whenever I try to post the save in a second reply, they are getting combined into one post. Is this something new? Automatically combining consecutive posts? Anyway, the picture is there, with the save attached beneath it.
IBT: Forest chop completes the temple in Sparta, which starts our pre-build (Pyramids). Mayan warrior attacks our archer stack, inflicts 1hp but dies.
1475BC (1): Warrior from Corinth spots a barb warrior (I guess we dont have to declare on them
). IBT: Barb moves back into the fog.
1450 (2): Spot blue border N of Pharsalos, send a warrior/archer pair along the mountains to take a look.
1425 (3): Spot 2 huts, one by our Curragh, who seems to have found a small island SW of Corinth, and one by the warrior N of Corinth. MM Athens to get the settler out.
IBT: Barb attacks our warrior, redlining him but dies. Athens-Settler>Hoplite, Delphi-Worker>worker.
1400 (4): Move settler N to a spot between Corinth and Pharsalos. 3S of Pharsalos would be off the river, and still take a river crossing, 3N of Corinth is on a river, and still 3 from Pharsalos, and can share the wheat. (The spot was covered by fog earlier).
IBT: Spot a Jav thrower by the borders. Thermo-Settler>Hoplite, Pharsalos-Worker>worker.
1375 (5): Spot a Mayan warrior also, move settler from Thermo toward coast (3NE spot). I fortify my archer on the mountain, wait for the Jav to get closer.
1350 (6): Our vet archer loses 2hp killing the regular Jav (Im glad, I really didnt want to trigger their GA just yet, we need more troops). Warrior moves to cover the archer.
1325 (7): Pop the hut, get Scythian barbs (Mayans would have popped it next turn anyway, so I thought I may as well get the goodies if there are any). Knossos is founded on the coast 3NE of Thermo, start on a worker.
IBT: One of the barbs kills our warrior, see another Mayan warrior from the north.
1300 (8): Vet archer kills reg Mayan warrior, another vet archer loses 1hp killing a barb. Argos is founded 3N of Corinth, starts a barracks. We can talk to the Mayans, they have 5 cities, still up only Mysticism, and have no luxes or resources.
IBT: Barb warrior attacks our archer, promoting him to Elite! Mayans send a spear/settler pair out from Copan. The Mayan vet warrior up north gets lucky, losing 2hp to kill our vet archer on a mountain.
1275 (9): Ive got an archer to trail the settler pair, and another moving to hit it if we get lucky.
1250 (10): Writing is discovered, I start on Literature, due in 13 at 1gpt deficit. I guess the earlier Embassy debate was somewhat academic, as our advisor reminds me we can NOW establish them.
Ive focused on developing the BGs near Sparta, and trying to connect some roads. Unfortunately, most of our 3-tile routes require roading through the mountains, so it will be slow, the more workers the better. Note that the Settler build in Athens is a placeholder for a Horseman, same with the Hoplite in Thermo. The road segment will complete this turn, so they can swap next turn, or you can leave them to complete. With our limited defenders and un-connected cities, Horses might be better for shifting forces until we get more defenses in place.
I couldnt decide where the best spot for the Iron city is, so I didnt build one yet!
The hill NE of the lava would be OK, but will be more than 3 from any other city except Knossos, and theres a river there. I like the grass S of the game, but its still adjacent to the volcano. Still dont know if we can road/colony through lava, so that might be a good question to answer first. Heres our lands:
Research: Obviously we dont know how the rest of the world is doing, but we dont really need Literature until our pre-build is closer to completion. We can do it now, just to get it out of the way, or we could research something else (Math, maybe) and come back for it. We could also try the Philo gambit, using that to get either Math or Map-Making as a free tech, then get Lit. Just some suggestions, since we got Writing this turn, we havent sunk any research into Lit yet.
Roster:
microbe
gozpel
grs
Justus II - Just played
6thGenTexan - up
Nick014 - on deck
The Save:
EDIT: Hmm, somehow whenever I try to post the save in a second reply, they are getting combined into one post. Is this something new? Automatically combining consecutive posts? Anyway, the picture is there, with the save attached beneath it.
Attachments
Justus II
General Staff
gozpel said:
Cleaning it is just like pollution, and yes, it takes forever to clean. What I don't know is if we can road or colony over it without cleaning it first. I'll have to see, I think I have a save-game somewhere from a scenario where one erupted early on.
Edit: OK, I found a savegame, and it did allow me to build a colony on the lava, and the resource shows up in my city screen. It also allowed me to build a road, although I know a tile with lava (like pollution) can't be worked by a citizen. So we do have those options.
grs
nameless one
The location of Knossos suggests to place ironville 1se of the iron, imo.
Nick014
Deposed Despot
Well, without the volcano complication, I definitely agree that your current red dot would be ideal, but it all has to do with what everyone thinks about building near one. Personally, I think it would be better to have the minimal chance of having the town torched by a volcano than to have it on a fringe and incapable of receiving reinforcements in one turn. I do build cities near volcanos when it makes sense to do so, and never once have I lost one (of course, that was just luck of the draw, so to speak, they did erupt frequently).
So my vote is for the spot SE of the iron, near the volcano. After all, cities can be rebuilt, let's just not pour our effort into this one too heavily.
So my vote is for the spot SE of the iron, near the volcano. After all, cities can be rebuilt, let's just not pour our effort into this one too heavily.
6thGenTexan
King
Sorry guys. Long day yesterday w/o time to check on the game. I've got it.
6thGenTexan
King
Thoughts before playing:
Knossos is in the wrong spot. It needed to be on the other side of the river. There is no river crossing penalty on the third move. (Argos to Pharsalos = 1 turn, Pharsalos to Argos = 2 turns) It is not going to hurt us this game but it will in the next.
We have a good border established. Argos-->Parsalos-->IRON City E of Valcano-->Knossos All are one move from each other after Engineering. I think these border towns need barrack/wall as a priority.
We still have two city sites NE and SW of Athens. Both will be productive as first ring cities.
Knossos is in the wrong spot. It needed to be on the other side of the river. There is no river crossing penalty on the third move. (Argos to Pharsalos = 1 turn, Pharsalos to Argos = 2 turns) It is not going to hurt us this game but it will in the next.
We have a good border established. Argos-->Parsalos-->IRON City E of Valcano-->Knossos All are one move from each other after Engineering. I think these border towns need barrack/wall as a priority.
We still have two city sites NE and SW of Athens. Both will be productive as first ring cities.
Justus II
General Staff
6thGenTexan said:
I agree with what you're saying, but I built Knossos on the spot recommended, with the assumption we would be building an Iron city, which would be within 3. On the south side of the river, it's an even 3 to Thermo, with no crossings. The Iron city will be within 3 of Knossos and Pharsalos. If Knossos was north of the river, it would squeeze the iron city, only 2 tiles away.
Definitely agree Barracks and Walls for frontline cities, and we certainly want to backfill in our core, but Iron city should probably come first, jost to keep any poachers away.
6thGenTexan
King
I decide to go for Philosophy now. We have plenty of time before Literature is needed. Philo in 7 turns @ max.
Swap Argos and Pharsalos to walls. Swap Knossos to barrack. Swap Delphi to curragh to explore the east coast. Whip barrack in Corinth for 20s. Lose two shields and this turns production in Athens switching to Hoplite. We do not have HBR and the settler will be done 4 turns before growth. Change Thermo to settler for Iron.
Strart HPR at max due in 6 turns.
1225BC-1 Athens hoplite-->hoplite Corinth barrack--> warrior 4hp Elite Archer kills spear to claim the two slaves and we get Pyrrhus! Vet archer clears Cherokee tribe for 25g. Vet warrior kills 2hp warrior in mountains. Only enemy in sight is a reg JT from Copan. Our 4 archers, 2 warriors and 2 hoplites are average compaired to Smoke's army.
1200BC-2 Fortify warrior in mountains n of Iron. Move archers back form Mayan border protecting slaves and leader.
IBT JT dies to fortified archer in montians east fo Copan.
1175BC-3 Pyrrhus arrives in Thermopylae to wait for a while. Curragh sees a barb galley.
IBT Curragh loses only on hp defeating galley.
1150BC-4 Drop science for HBR.
1125BC-5 HBR-->Philosophy in 6. Settler heads to Iron.
1100BC-6 Athens hoplite-->horsman Corinth warrior-->warrior Hoplite chases after settler to iron. Warrior heads to Sparta for MP duty.
IBT The Byzantines complete The Colossus.
1075BC-7 Delphi curragh-->worker Pharsalos walls-->barrack Mycenae founded for iron.
1050BC-8 More road building. Mining one hill near Sparta for 6th tile.
1025BC-9 With a hoplite in Mycenae, I send the warrior north to explore.
1000BC-10 Thermopylae hoplite-->horse Corinth warrior-->warrior Argos walls-->barrack Philosphy due next turn at 20% +21GPT.
Western curragh has only seen barbs. Eastern Curragh is still south of Knossos.
Library is still 35 turns minus growth. Sparta will need to take the BG from Athens in 4 turns at size 5.
Argos and Pharsalos have walls, hoplite and archer. Mycenae has one hoplite and a second two turns away. Two archers are fortified outside Mayan border in mountains. Corinth has been building MP warriors.
What to do with our leader? An empty army?
What to take as the free tech? Map Making is the most expensive available now. We can self research Literature in 7-8 turns.
The Game
Swap Argos and Pharsalos to walls. Swap Knossos to barrack. Swap Delphi to curragh to explore the east coast. Whip barrack in Corinth for 20s. Lose two shields and this turns production in Athens switching to Hoplite. We do not have HBR and the settler will be done 4 turns before growth. Change Thermo to settler for Iron.
Strart HPR at max due in 6 turns.
1225BC-1 Athens hoplite-->hoplite Corinth barrack--> warrior 4hp Elite Archer kills spear to claim the two slaves and we get Pyrrhus! Vet archer clears Cherokee tribe for 25g. Vet warrior kills 2hp warrior in mountains. Only enemy in sight is a reg JT from Copan. Our 4 archers, 2 warriors and 2 hoplites are average compaired to Smoke's army.
1200BC-2 Fortify warrior in mountains n of Iron. Move archers back form Mayan border protecting slaves and leader.
IBT JT dies to fortified archer in montians east fo Copan.
1175BC-3 Pyrrhus arrives in Thermopylae to wait for a while. Curragh sees a barb galley.
IBT Curragh loses only on hp defeating galley.
1150BC-4 Drop science for HBR.
1125BC-5 HBR-->Philosophy in 6. Settler heads to Iron.
1100BC-6 Athens hoplite-->horsman Corinth warrior-->warrior Hoplite chases after settler to iron. Warrior heads to Sparta for MP duty.
IBT The Byzantines complete The Colossus.
1075BC-7 Delphi curragh-->worker Pharsalos walls-->barrack Mycenae founded for iron.
1050BC-8 More road building. Mining one hill near Sparta for 6th tile.
1025BC-9 With a hoplite in Mycenae, I send the warrior north to explore.
1000BC-10 Thermopylae hoplite-->horse Corinth warrior-->warrior Argos walls-->barrack Philosphy due next turn at 20% +21GPT.
Western curragh has only seen barbs. Eastern Curragh is still south of Knossos.
Library is still 35 turns minus growth. Sparta will need to take the BG from Athens in 4 turns at size 5.
Argos and Pharsalos have walls, hoplite and archer. Mycenae has one hoplite and a second two turns away. Two archers are fortified outside Mayan border in mountains. Corinth has been building MP warriors.
What to do with our leader? An empty army?
What to take as the free tech? Map Making is the most expensive available now. We can self research Literature in 7-8 turns.
The Game
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