Middle Ages- what happened to my Grail?

[Pook]

Playing the Danes in Middle Ages scenario, I conquered England and captured the Holy Grail. One of my berserks seized it, and its descriptive text changed from black to red, just as usual for a unit holding a relic. Then I joined this berserk to an army. None of the Army's text is red, including the text for this unit. What happened? Is the Grail still there, or is there a bug that causes a relic-holding unit to lose the relic when it joins an Army?
Will you help me find the Holy Grail?
"All right, I'll ask him, but I don't think he'll be very keen. He's already got one, you see."

 

[t3h_m013]

haha, i used a montey python quote in the off subject forum on in the "is jesus black" or something of that nature thread, and no one got it...

i especially like the combination of monty pythong with your sig...
"the same thing we do every night Pinky, attack those splitter from the pfj, splitters."
"we are the pfj you tit"

 

[Cuivienen]

The relic is still there, just not visible. Bring the Army to Jerusalem and you will get 10,000 VPs.

 

[Pook]

Thank you. Once I finish taking BeNeLux from the Lombards, I'll load up both of my armies along with a load of berserks and sail for Jerusalem. The great thing about being a Viking civ is that with the seafaring and Norse Saga bonuses, my longships can go 9(!!) tiles per turn.

 

[dgfred]

@ Pook, make sure you have enough VP to win. One Relic will give you
10000pts. You may want to get another before you go to Jerusalem or just
make sure you pillage/destroy on the way and back for plenty of points .
I love playing this scenario as . They the butt.

 

[SuperBeaverInc.]

The Danes are awesome in this scenario. I once captured all of Europe from eastern France to Italy to Poland. With 3 relics, finished the scenario with about 50,000 VP points 30,000 from relics, 20,000 from conquering

 

[Zandrew]

"All right, I'll ask him, but I don't think he'll be very keen. He's already got one, you see."

"Are you SURE he's got one??"

I had the same thing happen to me when I placed a relic laden soldier in an army. I kept wondering if it was still there and, as Cuivienen noted, it is. I got the points when I reached Jerusalem.

 

[Pook]

"Are you SURE he's got one??"

"Oh yes, it's..... very nice."
Just finished a game as the Norwegians. I decided to play Viking-style and just use my longships and berserks to attack coastal cities, rather than trying to seize and hold territory. With the Norwegians, all I needed to do was keep an eye on the Swedes, since no one else could touch my land- my longships owned the seas. I did manage to take a relic from the Burgundians, but by halfway through the game I realized that I didn't need to go to Jerusalem. At 100 victory points per pop point (i.e. taking a size 6 city = 600 victory points) I could get enough points to win just by surprise attacks on coastal cities.
That's now 4 conquests down, 5 to go, all at Emperor level.

 

[sabo]

Yeah I had the same thing happen only my army captured the grail, even though you can't see it it's still there.

 

[dgfred]

"Oh yes, it's..... very nice."
Just finished a game as the Norwegians. I decided to play Viking-style and just use my longships and berserks to attack coastal cities, rather than trying to seize and hold territory. With the Norwegians, all I needed to do was keep an eye on the Swedes, since no one else could touch my land- my longships owned the seas. I did manage to take a relic from the Burgundians, but by halfway through the game I realized that I didn't need to go to Jerusalem. At 100 victory points per pop point (i.e. taking a size 6 city = 600 victory points) I could get enough points to win just by surprise attacks on coastal cities.
That's now 4 conquests down, 5 to go, all at Emperor level.

Nice game Pook! The Vikes are unbeatable in human hands!
What conquest have you NOT won? Just wondering.

 

[downtown]

Do you have to capture Jerusalem to get the points?

 

[sabo]

Do you have to capture Jerusalem to get the points?

Yeah so come with a BIG force

 

[dgfred]

Do you have to capture Jerusalem to get the points?

YES, You must kill off the units there then you can keep it, raise it or give
it to someone else. In my game I raised it after depositing relics "3"
as I was sailing away I noticed the AI sending a settler to the same spot to
rebuild .

 

[Zandrew]

"Oh yes, it's..... very nice."
Just finished a game as the Norwegians. I decided to play Viking-style and just use my longships and berserks to attack coastal cities, rather than trying to seize and hold territory...

"Well, ah, um, can we come up and have a look??"

I've played this as the Norwegians too, but a more traditional approach: conquer the British Isles, then send an expedition to Jerusalem. But, like you, I noticed that going to the Holy Land wasn't really necessary with all the points you can get through conquest. I'll try your approach next time! Did you usually keep or raze the cities you took?

 

[Pook]

Greetings. In reply to dgfred, I've been going in order, so I have not even played Age of Discovery, Sengoku, Napoleonic Europr, or WW II. I just started a Mesoamerica game last night as the Aztecs. I'm having to get used to the idea of human sacrifice for conquered workers. I normally build loads of workers and keep all the ones I capture, but the temptation of a quick 20 culture points (and the accompanying territory expansion) in a newly conquered city is overriding that idea. It's still early in the game. I'm toying with the idea of going for a cultural victory. It only requires 2000 culture points in one city, so with a sacrificial altar, at 40 points each.....

In reply to Zandrew- "Of course not. You are English types!" I always took the city. I did this for several reasons:
1) It distracts the AI. I would draw them to a conquered city, then have my longship pick up the berserk holding it, take off for the next city, and abandon the old one. Even on a road, AI foot soldiers are going only 3 tiles per turn, with mounted units going 6. My ships are moving 7 tiles per turn, so the AI can't keep up. Yes, I have to go around the coast, but they don't have a road in every tile either.
2) It limits the first turn AI response. If you raze the city, the AI is traveling in its own territory or unclaimed territory when it responds, so foot soldiers can get to you. By keeping the city, the AI has to travel through one tile of your territory, stopping the foot soldiers on the first turn response.
3) If the AI response is weak, you may be able to stay a couple of turns and repair a ship in the city.
4) The few gold pieces you get for selling off improvements. Not much, but better than nothing.

A reason I did not use is that if the AI captures the city back, and then I take it again, I get almost double points for taking the city twice. This happened to me on three occasions. I did not pursue it deliberately because IMHO it's an exploit.

From what I've read on this forum, the penalties in AI attitude for abandoning a city are the same as for razing it. I certainly noticed that toward the end of the game- after I had captured and then abandoned a lot of cities, everyone hated me (imagine that). I had to use large scale bribery to stop from being at war with 6-7 opponents at the same time.

 

[Zandrew]

"Of course not. You are English types!"
...after I had captured and then abandoned a lot of cities, everyone hated me (imagine that). I had to use large scale bribery to stop from being at war with 6-7 opponents at the same time.

"Well what are you then???"

Tell me more about the bribery. Did you arrange some nice per-turn deals? Were you agreeing to pay tribute?
In my game as Norway I sent a ship with 2 berserkers to explore the Mediteranean. Just for fun I sacked a vulnerable Byzantine city while I was there. It seemed to effected the balance of power in the area and resulted in a long uneventful war with Theodora. She did eventually send a few ships up to the English Channel, where I sank them. I'm guessing the civs you bribed were a lot closer to home. I think you could send a few ships to the Mediteranean and do a lot of damage without much fear of reprisal. Did you do that?

 

[Pook]

"I'm French" -being of 100% English ancestry 5 generations back, it hurts to say that.
I also got into a war with the Byzantines, and a long-running war with the Abbasids. I stationed one veteran longship just outside Gibraltar, waiting for a convoy. The Byzantines did send six curraghs to attack me, the longship took care of three of those while I brought more longships from France & BeNeLux to sink the remainder. The Abbasids never sent an invasion force, they just kept making alliances with others (Bulgars, Magyars, Germans, English, Lombards) to attack me. I would wait the obligatory 6-8 turns, then give the ally techs, maps, and/or gold to make peace. The Abbasids were unrepentant- the best deal I could get from them was "we'll let you live in exchange for 600+ gold plus 17 gpt"- forget it.
I like the idea of sending ships into the Med, I wish I could have pursued it further. My original thought was to pillage the Fatimid cities one by one on my way to sack Jerusalem, but I got enough points from sacking Danish, Celtic, English, French, and Lombard cities that I didn't need to make the trip.
At the start of the game, Sicily, Sardinia, and Corsica are unoccupied, so if you're reasonably quick you can grab one of those as a place to repair your ships. I grabbed Sardinia and Corsica. The Byzantines took Sardinia, but they couldn't land in Corsica - it's 3 tiles, all filled with a city and two captured workers. I kept it that way the whole game.

 

[Zandrew]

"I'm French" -being of 100% English ancestry 5 generations back, it hurts to say that.

As someone born in England: I feel your pain. As you might have guessed I'm a big fan of "MP and the Holy Grail" and could recite this scene in my sleep. For the sake of completeness here's the rest of it up until it starts raining livestock:
Taunter: "I'm French! Why do you think I have this outrageous accent you silly Kingah!"
Gallahad: "What are you doing in England?"
Taunter: "Mind your own business!"
Arthur: "If you do not show us the Grail we shall take your castle by force!"
Taunter: "You don't frighten us English pig-dogs! Go and boil your bottoms, son of a silly person. I blow my nose at you so-called Arthur King, you and all your silly English Kniggets!
Gallahad: What a strange person.
Arthur: Now look here my good ma--
Taunter: Ah don't wanna talk to you no more you empty headed animal food trough wiper! Ah fart in your general direction! Your mother was a hampster and your father smelt of elderberries!"
Gallahad: "Is there someone else up there we could talk to?"
Taunter: "No! Now go away or I shall taunt you a second timeah!"

I hope you'll excuse my straying from the topic a bit, though it does concern The Grail and you did quote from this scene in the opening post...

I've noticed that the Scandinavian civs like to colonize Sicily, Sardinia, and Corsica. Looks like it would be fun to settle those islands to use as a remote base for raiding the Med instead of the lands closer to home.