MightyToad
Sith Lord
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[UNIT] Mighty Ships Et Al
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Sword_Of_Geddon
Arbiter of the Sword
It does look like something a Native American civ would use, more woodlands or pacific northwest In my mind.
Great job Matsuda and Toad.
Great job Matsuda and Toad.
Matsuda123
Prince
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That's what I'm saying. I'm going to make two textures. Touching up the Water Tribe one, and then a second for a woodlands Native American ship. That way we can use it in two mods.
Thank you Toad.
This is great. Eventually we'll probably have enough Avatar units to actually make an Avatar mod. But I don't know how, so I'm only good for the art.
I thought of something else that wouldn't require making a model, but might be cool to have in CIV IV. A conversion of the CIV V unit, the Flyer. That steam-driven plane from the Empires of the Smoky Skys scenario. Would it be hard to convert? If so that's not necessary, but it could be cool
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Thank you Toad.
This is great. Eventually we'll probably have enough Avatar units to actually make an Avatar mod. But I don't know how, so I'm only good for the art.I thought of something else that wouldn't require making a model, but might be cool to have in CIV IV. A conversion of the CIV V unit, the Flyer. That steam-driven plane from the Empires of the Smoky Skys scenario. Would it be hard to convert? If so that's not necessary, but it could be cool
256
I like these guys. In general - the basutos are surprisingly civilized - and in the image. "Boomerang"/gorget somehow reminds that all kinds of "naked savages", as a rule, used elements of armor before the mass proliferation of firearms. And this also applies to the developed Neolithic. The Indians of the Northwest are notable for their wooden armor only because they lived in a remote corner and the tradition has been preserved for them longer. In the pre-firearms period, the entire forest area of North America, including the same Iroquois, sported wooden "armor". Siberia, including, is also a tree, but mostly bone armor and laminar leather.
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No, archaeologists found quite a lot of masks, they were not particularly rare. That's what, but they knew how to cast bronze in antiquity, it was quite an industry.Is that serious?
Sword_Of_Geddon
Arbiter of the Sword
There are examples of mask helms for war all over the place as well.
BTW Pecheneg you sure know your stuff man.
BTW Pecheneg you sure know your stuff man.
Thanks
. I'm from the former defensive line in the south. Now there are combat sofas instead of Nogai horses. That is, the number of experts in cold weapons and armor has grown incredibly compared to the 17th century.
<Nexus>
Traveler of the Multiverse
There are examples of mask helms for war all over the place as well.
BTW Pecheneg you sure know your stuff man.
Okay, but wasn't that the nobles, the rich elite?
1. Masks, counting with fragments, were found in ... 81 places. For ancient archaeology, this is a is impressive. This is if we take only Roman masks. In the east, archaeology is worse, but there are mentions much more.
2. An elite item should be expected to use precious metals, etc. In reality, there are indeed silver-plated masks, but they are isolated. Most masks with brass coating, etc. That is, it is economy class.
At the same time, the swordsman in the picture is clearly not in trouble
.3. In general, masks are rare only for the Dark Ages of Europe, in the "high" Middle Ages they were used by the same nomads. And Rome and Co. is a powerful craft production, almost an early Renaissance level qualitatively and much larger quantitatively.
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Sword_Of_Geddon
Arbiter of the Sword
You know your stuff Pecheneg. I've definitely been curious about the Nabataeans for awile now. I thought other than Petra, what were they like?
1. Hmm. Well, first you need to outline the geography. If we look at the desolate surroundings of Palestine, then, first of all, we notice Edom. Its historical axis is the Wadi al-Arab Valley between the Dead Sea and Aqaba/Eilat. Further south are two large oases - Teima and Dedan. And through all this there was a Road of incense to Yemen. At the same time, the subject of trade was not only the goods of Yemen itself/Happy Arabia. The local Arabs are very maritime, and sailed far to the south and east. What is important in the latter case - bypassing the Seleucids, with whom the Ptolemies chronically fought, Parthians, Sassanids, etc.
And to the east there is a narrow "isthmus" between the Syrian Desert and the Big Nefud Desert. Through which there was a road to Southern Mesopotamia and historical Bahrain (1) with its pearls. And there was an oasis of Duma. On the more northern route, the "modest" Palmyra had "a little" money, in the Duma it was more modest, but... In general, both roads converged in Edom, and there were also the largest copper deposits in the region.
Finally, bitumen was mined on the Dead Sea, which was used for mummification. Obviously, the huge population of Egypt at that time created an impressive demand.
2. At least since the time of late Assyria, all this was controlled by the Kedarites. The Duma is considered to be the center, and the state was very peculiar - sources mention not tsars, but queens.
3. It is not known exactly when and from where the Nabataeans appeared in the west of the Kedarite "empire". They spoke the Arabic dialect of southern Mesopotamia, and the Assyrians mention the Nabatu tribe.
On the other hand, the Nabataeans have "many gods in common" (c) with the Arabs of Hejaz (western Arabia), and "nbt" was used in Hejaz as the basis of tribal names. However, 1. it is well known how easily polytheists adopt other people's cults, especially in a new place 2. Eastern nabatu indicate that the "nbt" basis existed there as well.
In general, it is most likely that the Nabataeans migrated to the west through the "Duma corridor". The dates are blurred - 6-4 century BC. That is, after the collapse of the Assyrian Empire.
Anyway, in 363 BC, the Kidarites participate in an unsuccessful anti-Persian uprising, lose part of the territories - and the Nabataeans occupy Edom. In 312, the Seleucids try to conquer them, but the Nabataeans almost completely destroy the invading troops.
By the middle of the 2nd century BC, they also control Moab (possibly captured earlier). Then they disrupt the offensive of the first Maccabee on the Transjordan and terribly defeat the invading southern (2) Seleucids. As a result, the Nabataeans briefly captured Damascus and for a long time - the extreme south of Syria (Hauran). Later, Time and Dedan are captured. Then the Romans came and eventually annexed the kingdom.
4. As for the Nabataean army, there is little direct data about it. It is reasonably believed that they had a combination of traditionally Arab and Hellenistic (then Roman) elements.
The traditional Arab unit is, of course, camel riders with bows and darts. At the same time, 1. in the early version, they fought two on one animal, either because of the shortage of camels, or because of the imperfection of the control technology, or because of both at once. 2. Dismounting was a common practice. Moreover, the later Arabs fought mostly dismounted.
By the appearance of the Nabataeans, camel spearmen also appeared on the pages of history.
Even later, protected camels and swords with a length of four cubits (about 184 cm) are mentioned. And such swords are really known from Persia.
On the other hand, the Nabataeans clearly used Hellenistic weaponry and there are images of Eastern-style horse archers.
At the same time, sources mention only classical cavalry, and the bulk of the army according to them was infantry. Camel riders are not mentioned at all, but they clearly were. The most realistic option is that camel dragoons were also included in the infantry.
5. The Nabataeans obviously had a fleet. They tried to pirate at one time.
1) Historically, "Bahrain" is not only the islands, but the entire Saudi coast of the Persian Gulf (Al-Hasa) with a huge oasis.
2) The Seleucid state at a late stage split into the northern (with Antioch) and southern (Kelesiriya with Damascus + Phoenicia). Kelesiria is the lower/"sunken" Syria, the basin of Damascus.
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Sword_Of_Geddon
Arbiter of the Sword
Thankyou for this incredible amount of info. I cannot stress enough how useful you have been Pecheneg. I will have to definitely put all this treasure trove of information ito good use with a Nabataean revamp..
Afew things I noticed the way you used "Nbt" and this ancient Arabic seem alot similar to Ancient Egyptian language, where the name of the kingdom was "K'mt". Maybe I'm jumping the gun but perhaps ancient arabic and ancient egyptian languages were related?
As traders your absolutely right its an understatement to say they were a commercial oriented kingdom. I read they controlled the supply of many exotic goods from southern Yemen(Sabaean and Himyarite kingdoms), and kept the identity of the suppliers a closely guarded secret.
Currently I have the nabataens building a whole line of Camel units for uniques. Sounds like I wasn't entirely off but late Nabataean Camel Dragoons(Using the Camels only to get to the battlefield then dismounting) are really not a distinct form of Camelry but a mobile infantry.
Afew things I noticed the way you used "Nbt" and this ancient Arabic seem alot similar to Ancient Egyptian language, where the name of the kingdom was "K'mt". Maybe I'm jumping the gun but perhaps ancient arabic and ancient egyptian languages were related?
As traders your absolutely right its an understatement to say they were a commercial oriented kingdom. I read they controlled the supply of many exotic goods from southern Yemen(Sabaean and Himyarite kingdoms), and kept the identity of the suppliers a closely guarded secret.
Currently I have the nabataens building a whole line of Camel units for uniques. Sounds like I wasn't entirely off but late Nabataean Camel Dragoons(Using the Camels only to get to the battlefield then dismounting) are really not a distinct form of Camelry but a mobile infantry.
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You are welcome.
Egyptian and Arabic belong to the same macrofamily - Afro-Asian in American terminology, but it is believed that the Egyptian branch separated from the Semitic a long time ago, the collapse of a single language occurred in the 10-8 millennia BC.
Yeah. At the same time , the Arabs of Aden/Eudemon themselves were not fools and were engaged in 1. transit from India. That is, spices, cotton, indigo, etc. went through them. 2. Even before Islam, they sailed south of the equator along the east coast of Africa.
I suspect that everything was more interesting. It is more difficult to fight on the сamel than on the horse, especially when landing behind a hump, characteristic of the Aravians. That is, yes, camel riders by definition have more motives for dismounting. However, the need to dismount strongly depends on equipment and skills. If a rider has only a short sword or even a dagger, like the Arabs of the Assyrian time, low possibilities of working with a spear (and you need a long spear) and a bow from a camel, then it will be riding infantry in its purest form.
Conversely, a well-trained and armed with a long blade rider will gravitate to horseback combat. True, such fighters usually have more opportunities to buy/get a horse, but…
However, I suspect that most ancient authors were poorly versed in such subtleties, plus the bulk of large armies with militias were precisely riding infantry for obvious reasons. As a result, all camel riders were enrolled in the infantry without differentiation.
In general, of course, the game reflects such dragoons and in general dismounting is very bad, but it's a pity. Cavalry attacks cities in mounted formation, the same French Musketeers (practically – heavy guards dragoons) look just like infantry at a speed of 2.
At the same time, there were a lot of "dragoons".
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By the way, about trade with India and ships. The Greco-Romans had their own "East Indians". The South Indians "beautiful ships of the skillful Greeks" (c) were not only described in poems, but also painted. And it looks like it was a deep reworking of the Arabic/Indian dhow with three masts and Greek stylistic elements. It would be nice to complement the Greco-Roman line with an ocean-going ship, but I think Mighty Toad have plenty to do.
Walter Hawkwood
RI Curator
I guess for those who want to have mounted infantry in Civ 4, the best visual way to represent them would be to separate infantry and horse figures - while we would never see the infantry actually ride the horse, I think it would both get the point across visually and be distinct from both infantry and cavalry.
PPQ_Purple
Purple Cube (retired)
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Well one could always design a composite animation set where the horse exists in the movement and idle animations but during the combat animations the soldier is magically teleported to the ground and the horse vanishes. That wouldn't even be too difficult to do. Not that it would be too easy either but like medium.
Sadly one can't make a mounting / dismounting animation fit into the existing CIV animation flow which means it would have to be a sharp cut between the two states. And that wouldn't look good.
Sadly one can't make a mounting / dismounting animation fit into the existing CIV animation flow which means it would have to be a sharp cut between the two states. And that wouldn't look good.
IMHO, a combined unit would look good. Let's say two figures, one of which is a "dragoon", and the other leads a horse (a horse breeder). Fortunately, there is a ready-made merchant engaged in the same thing.
However, a change of appearance during an attack, just as IMHO, will look better.
Obviously, quite theoretically / ideally, you need to have a dismount button that changes the appearance and parameters of the unit. Moreover, the process takes a turn.
There is something similar in PIE fashion, but there dismounting is irreversible. And such transformations are unlikely to be normally used by AI. In general, dreams are dreams.
Well, you can watch dismounting in "Ancient Europe". Not ideal, but nothing apocalyptic. And by the way, there are another dragoons claiming to be such an animation - motorized infantry. It's a good idea, IMHO.
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Matsuda123
Prince
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Post the images here, maybe I can
Thank you very much in advance! Unfortunately, I have not found any modern reconstructions, which greatly complicates the task.
Fresco in Ajanta.
In India, he is patriotically considered Indian. In practice, there is nothing else similar to other Indian images, but there is a fair set of typical Mediterranean elements.
More details below.
I think it's better to start from a typical Roman "merchant".
Now the details that are better visible on the Roman images
Spoiler :
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