Migrant crisis
- Thread starter Borachio
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Tahuti
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The problem is that those migrants are less capable than our elderly were when they were their age. By that I mean the elderly in their prime were able to speak our language, knew our customs and had the skills. Migrants will have to be adjusted and that can be a long and costly process.
Besides, on the side note, you can always legalise drugs and promote smoking. Less elderly people to worry about!
Lillefix
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That's true but you need quite a bit of education to do this. You also need to know the culture and the language(everyone knows English or French but for other countries it's more difficult) in order to give satisfactory care.
And I wonder how many of these people are mentally stable enough to work after spending years of their lives trying to get to Europe. I think we got an example a couple of days ago when peeople on a boat began killing each other for religious reasons.
GoodEnoughForMe
n.m.s.s.
There's lot of hand-waving here about tightening the border or some such, because letting too many in would "do things" but I'm curious if people even know what things these are? The rate of migrants coming over is incredibly small when compared to the current population of the EU, not to mention its economic power. Most of the arguments against seem to be fear based and not really based on any data or research.
Borachio
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Sure, sure. But the care sector is just one instance. And honestly, the overwhelming number of people in it are migrants; in the UK (I can't speak for elsewhere). In my experience as much as 75%.
All the hand car wash operatives - who seem to have sprung up like mushrooms in my locality - are manned by migrants. And I don't believe they need a high level of language skills.
Tahuti
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That is true too. Anyone able to get to an EU country by airplane is probably wealthy and educated enough to be a permanent resident. We can always kick such persons out if they prove to be troublesome.
Travelling across the Mediterrenean by boat is quite an undertaking. A true act of desperation. Few people are that desperate.
Tahuti
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Why can't they be bothered to go to the nearest airport then?
Borachio
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I don't know. It's a bit of a mystery. I presume they're also paying traffickers for some kind of fake documentation to get them by in the foreign destination of their choice. And that more convincing documentation to get them through immigration control at an airport would be out of their reach.
As I say, I really don't know why. There must surely be some reason.
Taking to a leaky boat in the hope of being rescued by the coast guard seems a particular uncertain way of immigrating to the EU though.
As I say, I really don't know why. There must surely be some reason.
Taking to a leaky boat in the hope of being rescued by the coast guard seems a particular uncertain way of immigrating to the EU though.
I had a bit of a mad idea about this, and I cannot see what is wrong with it.
Could not the EU out-compete the people smugglers? Run boats on the same routes, charging a bit less and being a load safer than the people smugglers will be easy, and should provide a significant amount of money. There will be loads of saving made, in the reduced need for sea patrols, and in having all immigrants coming to a controlled point rather than wherever. There was a bloke from the UNHCR on the news last night who said that currently more than 50% are refugees rather than economic migrants, so most should be allowed in.
Could not the EU out-compete the people smugglers? Run boats on the same routes, charging a bit less and being a load safer than the people smugglers will be easy, and should provide a significant amount of money. There will be loads of saving made, in the reduced need for sea patrols, and in having all immigrants coming to a controlled point rather than wherever. There was a bloke from the UNHCR on the news last night who said that currently more than 50% are refugees rather than economic migrants, so most should be allowed in.
Timsup2nothin
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You are paying the trafficker for the illegality, not the transportation. Air travel is probably the only access that really can be controlled.
As to the "low skilled so unemployable" immigrants...there are plenty of low skill jobs to go around, but if Europe is anything like the US the trick is in the paperwork. I can hire a 'care worker' to wipe my elderly arse, but it is a criminal act for me to do so because to be "an employer" requires a mountain of paper, including some sort of license. So I have to go to a "licensed care facility" to get my elderly arse wiped, and that facility has to have a human resources department with all the necessary skills to complete the paperwork and prove they aren't employing any illegal aliens.
Those who are predicting a "breakdown" are likely correct, but the breakdown is going to come from the native population getting sick and tired of every transaction requiring expensive government involvement. I barter my way through life, getting illegally hired on a very regular basis. This turns my every employer into a criminal, and guess what...they like it!!!
My kids were raised to do the same. A lot of their friends have recognized that it offers a good life. Elder care is going to be a monster of a growth industry, and it will be a boon to undocumented workers, immigrant or not.
Akka
Moody old mage.
You realize that there is all this smuggling because these countries do NOT want to have the kind massive immigration that is the entire basis of your suggestion ?
Timsup2nothin
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I think his point was that since there isn't any real stopping of the immigration anyway, getting all the cash payments that are currently going to traffickers at least provides some offset.
Tahuti
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If that's the case, why not give permanent residence to everyone who enters by plane? (save exceptions like criminals) I'm not particularly a promoter of immigration but this seems like the most reasonable solution.
I do. However they all put a lot of lip service to actually wanting genuine refugees to escape persecution, and this would be a way to do that. I do see the political will being a bit lacking for this.
Borachio
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Well, I think the suggestion has some merit. And you're not necessarily allowing massive immigration, because you can keep all the potential migrants in immigration centres where their cases are considered before shipping them back where they came from. Presumably giving them a one way plane ticket and escorting them onto the plane. (To their destination of origin where an uncertain future awaits them no doubt. And the whole thing begins again.)
Another possibility that's been mooted is having immigration centres based in North Africa, but seeing that most (or a lot) of migrants are travelling through Libya this doesn't seem workable at the moment.
In fact, I don't see immigration centres, supplied by coastguard pickups, set up in Europe as working all that well either.
Which is why I offered the radical solution of open borders.
Timsup2nothin
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The airlines would certainly approve. Particularly if they were allowed to raise ticket prices into the range human traffickers charge. Ordinary air travelers aren't going to like it when they can't get seats though.
From Libya where flights are all grounded?
Also a lot of passports are pretty difficult to board flights with especially if Customs of the destination country does stuff at the origin. Flights to Australia for instance are nearly impossible on a Sri Lanka or Afghanistan or Iran passport simply because of the likelihood that people from those countries will seek asylum on arrival. (Funny this never gets mentioned as a prime causative factor behind people attempting dangerous boat trips)
The Refugee Convention doesn't give rights to seek asylum until you actually arrive. I'd be very surprised if it were simple for people from refugee-producing countries to just hop a flight to the EU.
trader/warrior
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So basically open borders for anyone as long you can afford plane tickets? Could as well take a lump sum of cash to fast forward people through the asylum seeking/immigration process no questions asked as well, it just seems a very cold hearted policy to me. Just make sure you have the cash on you and the border guards will be perfectly fine with you using a normal commercial ferry or car or whatever. It's not like there's a lack of safe boats or that land and sea travel is very dangerous. Would be nice for westerners to travel the world and move residences between countries without having all the visa stuff to bother with though.
The thing being, the EU counties really don't want these people. But may be willing to accept them, should they manage to get there on their own. So they aren't going to make it easy for the people to get there.
