Migrant Crimes Add Volatile Element to Austria’s Election

[El_Machinae]

I think both sides of the political spectrum are to blame for not crafting a superior culture to woo them with. I think liberalism causes more apostasy from hardcore Islamism, but wouldn't bet too many dollars on the actual stats.

 

[Akka]

Except if they destroyed your territory, I think.

Well, if you're going to use "might makes right", then I guess we can just stop trying to argue about what is right or wrong and just get back to genocide ?

 

[innonimatu]

It means we have a duty to elect government which will rein in such secret services. It DOESN'T mean the rest of the world has suddendly lost agency and we become responsible for it all.

Or if you consider that the West should basically manage the world, bring back colonisation and enjoy your self-contradictions.

Kosovo: serbian efforts to fight armed separatist rebels backed by religious nuts were portrayed as a "genocide" (whatever happened to the UN investigation of that?), leading to a war and a current Kosovo that is a protectorate/failed state covered with saudi fianced mosques. Just wait a couple years more and you'll feel the full force of the consequences for waging that war.

Libya: government fighting assorted armed religious nuts and separatist rebels was toppled, country is now in complete chaos, with at least three governments, one of which is a group of puppets in a naval base supported by the US, France, and the other usual suspects that pushed the country into anarchy. If the french ended up having to take in the millions of refugees that may have to flee from there it would be fitting. Not gonna happen tough.

Iraq: do I even need to comment on that one?

Saharan Africa: it would take me too long to list my grievances to what the french have been up to there...

Syria: another attempted Libya, but one that failed, it'll probably stabilize in a few years. If the turks get stuck with refugees from there it serves them good, seeing as they were major enablers of this civil war.

Afghanistan: now this one has plenty of blame to spread around. Mostly Pakistan, the US and the former USSR. And it turned out bad for all of these also.


No, Akka, none of these countries lacked agency. They all tried to solve their problems internally. Then other countries decided it was a good occasion to bomb them. And things really went to hell.

 

[El_Machinae]

Well, if you're going to use "might makes right", then I guess we can just stop trying to argue about what is right or wrong and just get back to genocide ?

I'm not the one suggesting might makes right.

But I only bring up genocide as a framing. People are complaining about the solutions being enacted, and the attempts to do so. But there are no solutions that have zero negative consequences.

 

[REDY]

After all, I now have it on good authority that the people are happy and who am I to judge if somebody wants to kill their subjects for leaving a religion ?

This is not Saudi Arabia, this is Islam itself. And Islam is recognized religion in your and my country.

 

[Akka]

Oh yeah, the more time pass, the more I tend to think we should become more isolationist and back off and let other countries deal with their own sh***, if only to get rid of this (sometimes partially justified, most of the time being a purposedly ultra simplification of the situation) narrative.

Though I'm pretty sure then the West would be blamed for not doing more against oppressive governments then.

The point stands, nations do exists, and they have their borders and their territory, and they have the complete full rights to decide who is in and who is out. That's the entire point of recognizing what a nation is.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

This is not Saudi Arabia, this is Islam itself. And Islam is recognized religion in your and my country.

Right, because every Muslim country from Morocco to Indonesia executes apostates.

 

[FriendlyFire]

Kosovo: serbian efforts to fight armed separatist rebels backed by religious nuts were portrayed as a "genocide" (whatever happened to the UN investigation of that?), leading to a war and a current Kosovo that is a protectorate/failed state covered with saudi fianced mosques. Just wait a couple years more and you'll feel the full force of the consequences for waging that war.

Kosovo was one of the most tolerant,liberal pro-western muslim societies within Europe at that time. They put up posters of Clinton and US flags. UN were welcomed as liberators which is ironic

You can thank G.W.Bush for ignoring the warnings AGAIN ! Kosvo government sort US help in shutting down Saudi influence but stopped due to not wanting to antagonize the Saudis.
Now thanks to our "allies" the Saudis, have been again busy spread wahabism.

How Kosovo Was TurnedInto Fertile Ground for ISIS

Extremist clerics and secretive associations funded by Saudis and others
have transformed a once-tolerant Muslim society into a font of extremism.

PRISTINA, Kosovo — Every Friday, just yards from a statue of Bill Clinton with arm aloft in a cheery wave, hundreds of young bearded men make a show of kneeling to pray on the sidewalk outside an improvised mosque in a former furniture store.

The mosque is one of scores built here with Saudi government money and blamed for spreading Wahhabism — the conservative ideology dominant in Saudi Arabia — in the 17 years since an American-led intervention wrested tiny Kosovo from Serbian oppression.

Since then — much of that time under the watch of American officials — Saudi money and influence have transformed this once-tolerant Muslim society at the hem of Europe into a font of Islamic extremism and a pipeline for jihadists.

After decades of Communist rule when Kosovo was part of Yugoslavia, men and women mingle freely, schools are coeducational, and girls rarely wear the veil.

Muslims in Kosovo, which was a part of the Ottoman Empire for 500 years, follow the Hanafi school of Islam, traditionally a liberal version that is accepting of other religions.

But all around the country, a new breed of radical preachers was setting up in neighborhood mosques, often newly built with Saudi money.

“People were so needy, there was no one who did not join,”

Unheeded Warnings

Why the Kosovar authorities — and American and United Nations overseers — did not act sooner to forestall the spread of extremism is a question being intensely debated.

As early as 2004, the prime minister at the time, Bajram Rexhepi, tried to introduce a law to ban extremist sects. But, he said in a recent interview at his home in northern Kosovo, European officials told him that it would violate freedom of religion.

“It was not in their interest, they did not want to irritate some Islamic countries,” Mr. Rexhepi said. “They simply did not do anything.”

Not everyone was unaware of the dangers, however.

At a meeting in 2003, Richard C. Holbrooke, once the United States special envoy to the Balkans, warned Kosovar leaders not to work with the Saudi Joint Relief Committee for Kosovo, an umbrella organization of Saudi charities

By the summer of 2014, the Kosovo police shut down Al Waqf al Islami, along with 12 other Islamic charities, and arrested 40 people.

The charity’s head offices, in Saudi Arabia

Today the Islamic Community of Kosovo has been so influenced by the largess of Arab donors that it has seeded prominent positions with radical clerics, its critics say.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/22/w...kosovo-into-fertile-ground-for-isis.html?_r=0

 

[Flying Pig]

Well, they put the Serb leader on trial for genocide, but he died before the trial could finish.

 

[Agent327]

Right, because every Muslim country from Morocco to Indonesia executes apostates.

If Saudi Arabia = every Muslim country from Morocco to Indonesia, then Yes.

Back on topic: an independent candidate beat the right wing presidential candidate in Austria. (By a narrow margin, but still.)

 

[Kyriakos]

Well, they put the Serb leader on trial for genocide, but he died before the trial could finish.

Yeah, he was persistent in arguing that he did the same thing western leaders do against 'terrorists'. Moreover, at least in his case it was inside Serbia (although most of Kosovo was by then populated by albanians who did not want to be run by Serbia).

Then he died.

 

[El_Machinae]

Right, because every Muslim country from Morocco to Indonesia executes apostates.

I liken it to Libertarians or Communists. Not afraid of them as minorities. Pretty afraid of them once they become a significant voting block.

 

[FriendlyFire]

Yeah, he was persistent in arguing that he did the same thing western leaders do against 'terrorists'. Moreover, at least in his case it was inside Serbia (although most of Kosovo was by then populated by albanians who did not want to be run by Serbia).

Then he died.

Can the Balkans please stop slaughtering each other in endless cycle of war and hatred ?

Balkanization, or Balkanisation, is a pejorative geopolitical term, originally used to describe the process of fragmentation or division of a region or state into smaller regions or states that are often hostile or uncooperative with one another.

Yugoslav Wars were ethnic conflicts
conflicts have become infamous for the war crimes involved, including ethnic cleansing, crimes against humanity and rape
According to the International Center for Transitional Justice, the Yugoslav Wars resulted in the deaths of 140,000 people.[9] The Humanitarian Law Center estimates that in the conflicts in former Yugoslav republics at least 130,000 people lost their lives. Displaced: ≈4,000,000

 

[Manfred Belheim]

No, not all people agree to that. The leaders of Saudi Arabia don't.
Maybe you think the behaviour of the house of Saud is an good benchmark for ethics. I have higher standards and think it should go without question that we're better than this hateful, brutal and tyrannical kingdom.

Bit late on this, but...

A mere 8 posts after abradley said "the Saudis should do more to help", your reading of his opinion is that "we should all do less, just like the Saudis".

Amazing.

 

[MilitantSecular]

Stop stop stop. That's not even worth mentioning. If someone is so fundamentally incompatible with western society as to not be able to refrain from raping women or robbing people, then they can stay in a refugee camp in rural Turkey.

146.9 % voter turn out, yes One Hundred and Forty Six Point Nine Percent.....is that normal?



http://www.krone.at/Oesterreich/146..._WaidhofenYbbs-Ministeriumspanne-Story-511598

Can the Balkans please stop slaughtering each other in endless cycle of war and hatred ?

Yugoslavia had a dictator and this dictator needed to be stopped, but did Clinton really have to side with the Islamics against the Serbs and Russians?


Link to video.

The Los Angeles Times article "Terrorists Use Bosnia as Base and Sanctuary" cites the classified U.S. State Department report and interviews with international military and intelligence sources by saying that, " Hundreds of foreign Islamic extremists who became Bosnian citizens after battling Serbian and Croatian forces present a potential terrorist threat to Europe and the United States.".

This is not Saudi Arabia, this is Islam itself. And Islam is recognized religion in your and my country.

maybe we should recognize it as violent, as a doomsday religious cult and subversive political movement

that's not to say every Muslim is bad, despite the violent stupidity of the Koran/Quran some muslims can be very good people

but 'Islam' itself is messed up and very wrong

Right, because every Muslim country from Morocco to Indonesia executes apostates.

Just Iran, Somalia, Afghanistan, Brunei, Mauritania, Qatar the slave ridden hole that hopes to host the soccer world cup, Pakistan, Palestine, Malaysia, Chad, Nigeria, Turkmenistan, Yemen, UAE, Sudan etc and all those other islamist hell holes

the rest of the more 'modern' muslim nations, they just flog the poor accused 100 times till they bleed out and beg for mercy or jail them and sue the family for insults against their Moongod Al-Lah...or they send the religious police aka the islamo mob, send them to burn down the person's house....watch it all its there on liveleak and youtube, these violent islamist imbeciles really do live up to the stereotype

 

[GoodSarmatian]

Just Iran, Somalia, Afghanistan, Brunei, Mauritania, Qatar the slave ridden hole that hopes to host the soccer world cup, Pakistan, Palestine, Malaysia, Chad, Nigeria, Turkmenistan, Yemen, UAE, Sudan etc and all those other islamist hell holes

No. You're either ignorant or lying.
Some of those on your list do, and that's definitely a problem, but some of those don't. Malaysia just doesn't recognize apostasy and considers ex-muslims to still be muslims. A violation of religious freedom, but not exactly an execution. I also think that if Turkey or Morocco dealt out floggings to people until they bleed to death we would hear more about it.

 

[Agent327]

Not to mention that some of those listed aren't even Muslim countries. Seriously, Nigeria? The point is, having a Muslim majority doesn't automatically make a country fundamentalist. Nor does it automatically make a country execute people for religious reasons.

 

[Bootstoots]

Well, the northern half of Nigeria is pretty Islamist. I don't know how the migration stats compare between it and the southern half though. That's the only one he listed that doesn't have a Muslim majority.

 

[Agent327]

Actually, it's 56 % Muslim. But that wasn't the point. As mentioned, a Muslim majority does not make a country automatically a 'sharia law' country. Turkey has had a Muslim majority since inception, but it's a secular state - yet.

 

[Akka]

Not to mention that some of those listed aren't even Muslim countries. Seriously, Nigeria? The point is, having a Muslim majority doesn't automatically make a country fundamentalist. Nor does it automatically make a country execute people for religious reasons.

Well, Nigeria uses Sharia as the basis of (depending on the sector) a part of its justice system in half the states, and that goes up to execution for apostasy. I think it's significant enough to be considered a Muslim country ?