Military Talk

Do they publish numbers for those? Can't see them on the (well-sourced) Wiki pages.

jet fighter performance is as debateable as any anything one can imagine . Get into places like Key Publishing Forums and you will see at least two such discussions on the frontpage on which fighter plane outturns the other and so on . Follow the discussions for two consecutive days and you might even give up surfing on-line . Start a discussion on more "disciplined" places like Secret Projects Forum and they might ban you right on the first day .


me said:
edit :with the crash of KC-135 one
it turns out there has been an incident involving a THY airliner from Frankfurt . With claims that the Cargo door latch was left open . With Bundesnazism trial , it would have been so obvious and obviously the 1973 crash of the DC-10 has not been that widely disseminated . It proves it once again , the marks should be undeliable .
 
allow me a piece on why it's so difficult for the layman to get a reasonable result from examination of which fighter outmanouvres the other . It's of course about the relationship between the concepts mentioned in the posts above but specifications of planes are always about static conditions ; and dynamics in the air can alter the numbers significantly .

first of course , there is the question of weight of the plane , between two exactly same airplanes the lighter one will be better ; say in a training exercise between 2 F-16s . No confusion here , nor in the notion that carrying external tanks and weapons increase the drag ; hence "decrease" thrust . If one of the F-16s in the example has drops under the wing , it will perform worse than the one that doesn't , even when they have the same weight .

now arises the need to discuss the scientific stuff ; the T/W ratios and the wingloads . As mentioned they are calculated by "brochure numbers" , if ı may say so . When in the air , the fighter has to balance its weight by lift , production of which by the air relatively moving around the airframe produces drag , which comes out of the thrust as produced by the engines . Being laymen , we then certainly can talk of total lift available and the net thrust , which will be used to move the plane in 3D as required by the needs of combat tactics , to survive and kill or least to survive .

ı have spent some 15 years to "figure it out" ; was always a plane nut and sometime in the 90s ı was trying to develop wargames of my own . Having a computer definitely kills creativity but ı digress . Returning to discussion at hand , the data to reach meaningful conclusions is not really available to the general public . And baseline figures will lead to assumed and certainly unrealistic results .

take the F-5 , which once had become the basic Dissimilar Air Combat Training aircraft of the West . Which was long before it was made famous in the Top Gun movie . Playing MiG-21s at select locations this side of the Iron Curtain . Which by baseline numbers is preposterous . Picking one reference book ı have at home , ı see that the Fishbed in its latest version has a T/W of 0.81 and a wingload of 379 kg / square meter , has a speed that changes between Mach 1.22 at Sea Level to 2.05 at altitude and does have that blistering climb rate at 230 m / sec , which is an indication of the kinda clean airframe and lots of thrust . An accident in the 1990s involved a Polish Navy MiG-21 with a novice pilot that somehow overrode engine controls and it was clocked at Mach 2.45 , before running out of fuel . The F-5E , similarly the last version , is certainly pedestrian . Speeds between Mach 0.99 and 1.63 , climb at 175 m / sec . Even the range is less . The MiG has always been compared to a sports car that could do nothing but defend its airfield , the American plane becomes a "pig" when laden with drop tanks and so on . The scientific numbers ? A T/W of 0.64 and a wing loading of 413 . The writing must be on the wall , right ? The MiG will eat the Tiger II anytime ...

except the North Vietnamese captured lots of F-5s in 1975 and one 'E was sent to Russia , where it kicked any of the Russian fighters that was flown against it . Including all sorts of MiG-21s and the Russians flying the captured plane was nowhere proficient with it , lacking the flight hours and the experience American Aggressors pilots achieved .

any aircraft is a compromise . The F-5 is a plane developed for comparatively "primitive" Allies of America in the 1950 and the 60s . "Undeveloped" parts of the world means short runways and the Freedom Fighter was given almost straight wings for operation from limited airfields . To save money -because it was designed to be given away free , F-5 was made as light as humanly possible- ; less amount of Aluminium , less Dollars spent . Since there was no engine suitable for it , a small jet for drones was converted and the J-85 had almost twice T/W of contemporary engines , producing 8 times of its weight in thrust , its miniscule size working well when the pilot spooled it up or down as required , to slow or accelerate .

the MiG-21 was nominally developed to intercept fast / high flying bombers , it is all about travelling fast . So when the two meet in the air the Fishbed will be about halfway of it what it can do . A wing meant for Mach 2 has to be given a lot of Angle of Attack to produce lift that be converted to tactical turns ; Fishbed eats its advantage in T / W , by the need to produce lift . ı also presume the requirement for extra lift also cuts the ability to roll , though the F-5 is possibly still the plane with highest rate of roll ever .


so why America doesn't have thousands of F-5s ? For turning well in the air is just a part of the whole equation . Italy before WW 2 had supremely manouvrable planes , yet they were quickly put out of equation by an handful of British fighters which were much better weapon platforms . More recent times have seen the inevitable rise of the missile and F-15 trumps the F-5 , many times over when it comes to real combat capability . It also helps that F-15 has massive wing area with back breaking engine thrust . An aviation article by a USN pilot -who hurt his neck in a catapult launch off a Carrier and thus limited to be a landlubber , flying as an Aggressor for 15 years straight- said the only advantage the F-5 can possibly have over the US Teen Series that it's so small . And that it falls to the Aggressor pilot to avoid collisions in air combat training as the student pilots in Service types are not expected to visually acquire the F-5 . Which in real life means nothing as there will be an AWACS or surface based Radars to data link the location of the F-5 to the Fighters and that will immediately be converted into a firing solution for missiles . The straight wing of the Tiger is no help in the air combat of 21st Century . Just forget the MiG-28 ... Until Maverick and Cougar comes across a couple in the Indian Ocean .
 
this total lift available thing that allowed the F-5 to be a factor is not easy to calculate ; all modern combat aircraft use fuselage lift -with vortexes produced by leading edge extensions making a huge contribution . Actually the F-5 was a pioneer in this field as well , going with a larger kink in the wingroots the F-5E gained some 20% more lift than the F-5A with just a 5% increase in wing area , if ı remember the numbers correctly .

there was a concerted effort to make the total lift relevant in such discussions once . Back in the 1970s when Variable Geometry wings were a fad ; when USN had the F-14 in production and wanted to keep it so by all costs and there was the Panavia Tornado for the Europeans . Then you might have seen long passages on the importance of greater aspect ratios for lift and how it helped out-turning the enemy . As such programmes winded down , "negative" publicity seeped in . It seems there was a period of confusion for USAF F-15 pilots in mock combat with the USN F-14s . Out-turning anything in the USAF inventory , they also tried turning with the Tomcats . Results were negative so the speeds were increased up to a point where the lift produced by variable wings was not enough to compensate for the drag they produced and the weight on the airframe they entailed . USAF types on-line talking for the good old days always stress that they had Tomcats' number in the end ...

marketing really has an impact on science and stuff . It was last week that ı read the T/W ratio is not actually an indicator of air combat performance as provided an example from F-14s . The initial version 'A was troubled by its engine ; TF-30 was from the first generation of turbofans and was certainly a mismatch in the Tomcat . In about 1986 , new F-14 versions with better engines were eagerly expected , ı had this little book bought at the time , qouting a Top Gun instructor and a long time Tomcat driver that soon nothing on the planet could stick with them . It "turns" out , the new 'B and 'Ds could not shake off any 'A from their 6 o'clock and the increased T/W was a waste in air to air . Read : F-35 is so glorious a programme that anybody who doubts it knows nothing about anything and it certainly doesn't mean one bit that its T/W ratio is ... well , not that good . Even the once so important tenet that one needed to see his / her 6 o'clock , hence a bubbletop canopy was almost the 11th Commandment , is so BS because the F-35 will have synthetic vision anyhow .

one does not reject the advertised capabilities of the abomination called the F-35 out of hand . Systems do matter in combat . Take a Russian Su-27 and a Chinese Su-27 and put them into mock combat with rules set up to encourage a turning fight . The Russian will win . Now change the planes , Russian flies the Chinese Flanker and the Chinese flies the Russian Flanker and the Russian will once again win . Because Internet tells us the Chinese pilots do not use G-suits ; the Chinese Flanker pilot will lose because he will black-out first . Actually there is some kind of an historical precedent for this . The Chinese of the 1950s were "slightly" built up compared to Russians of the the same time frame and lacked muscle power to move the unboosted flight controls of the MiG-15 / 17 family , they could be identified by comparative lack of response from their planes in the air . This is why everytime a MiG driver had more than average arm strength he would be reported by the F-86 pilots in Korea as a Russian , Eastern European , former Luftwaffe , or even American mercenary flying a Super MiG .

but then let me predict the score card in the next one coming . Which Americans strive hard to "avoid" by betting everything on the F-35 and avoiding to put it right , say by proper Service use . See , the F-15 is so beautiful a plane that you would hurt in the heart to shoot it down . The F-35 is so ugly that once it makes to combat that it will be an obligation to aesthetics to destroy 'em all . Yeah , the reason why it takes so long ...
 
USAF General Philip Breedlove, CIC of US European Command, assumes the job of SACEUR at NATO headquarters in Belgium...

Video: Breedlove Assumes Command

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wiki Bio
 
X-47B Accomplishes First Ever Carrier Touch and Go aboard CVN 77

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USS GEORGE H.W. BUSH, At Sea (NNS) -- The Navy's X-47B Unmanned Combat Air System Demonstrator (UCAS-D) has begun touch and go landing operations aboard the aircraft carrier USS George H.W. Bush (CVN 77) May 17.

For UCAS-D, this represents the most significant technology maturation of the program. Ship relative navigation and precision touchdown of the X-47B are critical technology elements for all future Unmanned Carrier Aviation (UCA) aircraft.

George H.W. Bush is currently conducting training operations in the Atlantic Ocean, strengthening the Navy's forward operating and war fighting ability.
 
Taiwan to buy two U.S. frigates

The 4,100-ton frigates will take over part of the anti-submarine mission currently shouldered by the Knox-class fleet deployed along Taiwan's eastern coast.

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Republic of China (Taiwan) (Cheng Kung-class): Taiwanese-built. Originally eight ships were equipped with eight Hsiung Feng II anti-ship missiles, now all but PFG-1103 are carrying four HF-2 and four HF-3 supersonic AShM. The PFG-1103 Cheng Ho will change the anti-ship mix upon their major overhaul. Seven out of eight ships added Bofors 40 mm/L70 guns for both surface and anti-air use. On November 5, 2012 Minister of Defense Kao announced the U.S. government will sell Taiwan two additional Perry-class frigates that are about to be retired from the U.S. Navy for a cost of US$240 million to be retrofitted and delivered in 2015. -wiki

Commie-China Outrage next...:mischief:
 
France army in key Mali withdrawal

A convoy of dozens of lorries left a base outside the capital, Bamako, on its way south to Ivory Coast.

France began withdrawing some of its 4,000 troops from the country in April.

They plan to gradually hand over to the Malian army and a UN peacekeeping force:rolleyes:, which will deploy in July ahead of planned nationwide elections.

The BBC's Alex Duval Smith in Bamako says the French intervention has been immensely popular, and most Malians have dreaded the beginning of the withdrawal.

Last week, more than $4bn (£2.6bn) was pledged at an international donor conference in Brussels to fund the Malian government's plan for a "total relaunch of the country".

It includes rebuilding government institutions, repairing damaged infrastructure, organising presidential elections, holding dialogue with rebel groups in the north and stimulating the economy.
 
Chinese hackers steal U.S. weapons systems designs, report says

Chinese hackers have gained access to designs of more than two dozen major U.S. weapons systems, a U.S. report said on Monday, as Australian media said Chinese hackers had stolen the blueprints for Australia's new spy headquarters.

Citing a report prepared for the Defense Department by the Defense Science Board, the Washington Post said the compromised U.S. designs included those for combat aircraft and ships, as well as missile defenses vital for Europe, Asia and the Gulf.

Among the weapons listed in the report were the advanced Patriot missile system, the Navy's Aegis ballistic missile defense systems, the F/A-18 fighter jet, the V-22 Osprey, the Black Hawk helicopter and the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter.

The report did not specify the extent or time of the cyber-thefts or indicate if they involved computer networks of the U.S. government, contractors or subcontractors.

But the espionage would give China knowledge that could be exploited in a conflict, such as the ability to knock out communications and corrupting data, the Post said. It also could speed China's development of its defense technology.

In a report to Congress this month, the Pentagon said China was using espionage to modernize its military and its hacking was a serious concern. It said the U.S. government had been the target of hacking that appeared to be "attributable directly to the Chinese government and military."

China dismissed the report as groundless.

China also dismissed as without foundation a February report by the U.S. computer security company Mandiant, which said a secretive Chinese military unit was probably behind a series of hacking attacks targeting the United States that had stolen data from 100 companies.

In Australia, a news report said hackers linked to China stole the floor plans of a A$630 million headquarters for the Australia Security Intelligence Organization, the country's domestic spy agency.

The attack through the computers of a construction contractor exposed not only building layouts, but also the location of communication and computer networks, it said.

Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Hong Lei, asked about the Australian report, said China disapproved of hacking.

"China pays high attention to the cyber security issue and is firmly opposed to all forms of hacker attacks," Hong said at a daily briefing.

"Since it is very difficult to find out the origin of hacker attacks, it is very difficult to find out who carried out such attacks," Hong said. "I don't know what the evidence is for media to make such kinds of reports."

Repeating China's position that every country was susceptible to cyber attacks, Hong said nations should make joint efforts towards a secure and open Internet.

Australia security analyst Des Ball told the ABC that such information about the yet to be completed spy headquarters made it vulnerable to cyber attacks.

"You can start constructing your own wiring diagrams, where the linkages are through telephone connections, through wi-fi connections, which rooms are likely to be the ones that are used for sensitive conversations, how to surreptitiously put devices into the walls of those rooms," said Ball.

The building is designed to be part of an electronic intelligence gathering network that includes the United States and Britain. Its construction has been plagued by delays and cost over-runs with some builders blaming late design changes on cyber attacks.

The ABC report said the Chinese hacking was part of a wave of cyber attacks against business and military targets in the close U.S. ally.

It said the hackers also stole confidential information from the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade, which houses the overseas spy agency, the Australian Secret Intelligence Service, and had targeted companies, including steel-manufacturer Bluescope Steel, and military and civilian communications manufacturer Codan Ltd.

The influential Greens party said the hacking was a "security blunder of epic proportions" and called for an inquiry, but the government did not confirm the breach.


Prime Minister Julia Gillard said the reports were "inaccurate", but declined to say how.

Despite being one of Beijing's major trade partners, Australia is seen by China as the southern fulcrum of a U.S. military pivot to the Asia-Pacific. In 2011, it agreed to host thousands of U.S. Marines in near-permanent rotation.

Chinese telecommunications giant Huawei was last year barred from bidding for construction contracts on a new Australian high-speed broadband network amid fears of cyber espionage.

The Reserve Bank of Australia said in March that it had been targeted by cyber attacks, but no data had been lost or systems compromised amid reports the hackers had tried to access intelligence negotiations among a Group of 20 wealthy nations.
 
Well, I hope that we are at least giving as good as we're getting when it comes to cyber espionage. Sadly, for the near future, when it comes to technology stealing, we'll always be on the losing side as they've got nothing better than what we've already got.
 
Given some exceptions in the past (and the current Administrations' active interference with Iran's NWP), American Cyberwarfare efforts have been largely defensive (white hat).

The two main problems have been that, as you correctly point out, the advanced technology transfers have been a largely one-way phenomena, and that the Chinese (and Russians) can steel the technologies through the poorly defended corporate contractors (who decline to admit they've been hacked) - as was certainly the case with the F35 event.

Spoiler :
Masters of the cyber-universe

“They don’t care if they get caught,” says Dmitri Alperovitch, who used to work at McAfee, a computer-security firm, where he helped analyse several Chinese hacking operations in 2010 and 2011, and is a co-founder of CrowdStrike, another cyber-security firm. The indiscriminate tactics of China’s 2010-11 campaign made it relatively easy to track. His team identified more than 70 victims (among many more unidentified ones), dating back to 2006, and found that the average time the hackers stayed inside a computer network was almost a year. “They’ll go into an organisation and then stay there for five, six years, which of course increases the chances that they get caught.”
 
ı have noticed ı haven't done any state of the country rants lately . The really sad thing about me is that my internet persona is way ahead of my real existence . Stuff ı achieve is stuff nobody else can really care about , like quite by chance ı finally saw Forrest Gump -from the beginning to the end- on TV . A good movie and not just because it has Robin Wright in it ; even when the combat scenes are just meh . The thing is Gump at least can play ping pong .

as such the usual r16 fare in multiple randomly seperated parts so that it wouldn't be too much mouse scrolling to close the walls of text in spoilers . On how Allah saved Turkey for one more day .

Spoiler :

as trouble is brewing in country , the leader of the Main Opposition Party had a little traffic accident . It might have been Hell , as he had just called the PM as an international terror ringleader . On his way to meet US Congressmen to tell his side of the events where the PM accuses him of harbouring Syrian spies who bombed Reyhanlı where the death toll is now 52 . On the anniversary of the 1960 Coup , where the Main Opposition is accused of plotting , the biggest tragedy and disgrace in the entire history of the human race -and stuff might be driven up you in the coming days of Turkey if you don't have this kind of agreeing face ; all by the newly elites' courtesy and grace . Just days after some provincial dudes had the temerity to prefer playing the March of the 10th Anniversary (of the Old Republic in 1933 ) instead of Mehter , the Ottoman military music . When a bigshot Minister of the Goverment was at the venue ; he was indignant at this provocation ...

the tinfoil brigade would be quick to judge the truck driver committed too early , understandable in that he had no Driver's Licence . The driver of the party leader reacted and had a fender bender with a 3rd vehicle , that could have rammed them properly , all modern cars have quite a potential to absorb head on affairs , while side-ons are the stuff where advertisers love to talk about -if available . The driver of the third vehicle just naturally has credit card issues and had been hiding from the Law for quite a time , Police sent him jail for two months on court order for unpaid bills . Media adviser to the party leader says it was planned ; a Member of the Parliament who was also in the car says it was an accident .

fully accidental or intentional , from the Left or the Right , there are no iron solid guarantees in this . Patton , too , would have had this scrape with a 2.5 tonner GMC and come out screamin' the Red sums-o-btches were trying to kill him .




Spoiler :

for there is less and less talk of "co-habitation" . ı have never used alcohol and can't say ı care for people who drink . Yet this recent new laws limiting sales has to be mentioned . Restrictions even the Voice of Russia approves , you know Putin has similar laws . This being Turkey increased penalties for driving under the influence , banning of sponsorship deals and sale to individuals between 22.00 and 06.00 hours naturally lead to claims that the Islamist Goverment is trying to ban drinking and to impose a stricter life style . Had mentioned Voice of Russia , a guest on the show who was a small shop owner expected to lose up to 50% of his sales ; he himself thinks it's just intented to make it easier for malls and far harder for what you might have called the Mom and Pop shops .

malls are loved in Turkey . An "historian" that didn't shy of calling Atatürk a murderer re-appeared on TVs , it seems she is actually from the Social Sciences and declared the Party is a perfect Capitalist , but in democracies one must reach out to the voters . Hence some Islamism is needed time to time .

if you are familiar with Istanbul , you might have heard of Taksim , the city center square where this new mall is being built . For some reason , maybe to open a delivery route for construction , somebody brought up a bulldozers to get some trees down , in the middle of the night . 50 people gathered to save the Green , municipality plain clothesmen arrived to push them around , then 15 Policemen came to bring order , gassing people as per the custom . Now Voice of Russia is a radio that can afford to be critical of the Goverment , as by common agreement Putin will keep a eye on former Commies and the Left and warn of untoward acts . Hence they can really LOL the grass roots resistance and the reportedly farcical police efforts to maintain order . Police in Turkey can break 50 ribs in 5 minutes if ordered to ... Well the hours of battle ended when an artsy member of the political wing of the seperatists arrived and stood in front of the buldozer . This ain't Palestine and he ain't Rachel Corrie ... Reaching out indeed . Taksim is of course the venue of May Day battles where the construction firm suggested their equipment could have been damaged by the anarchist gangs and nobody was allowed in . Will return to that affair a bit later . Where muscle was shown .

talking of muscle the PM really loves the way the Party rams laws into "bags" as they are called in Turkey . Where proposals refused in Parliamantary Commissions re-appear as last minute amendments and a few flashy issues take all the attention in 17 hour marathon sessions . The newspapers suggest there was a move that would allow easier control of minimalls of which every new construction mosque in Turkey has one , until some drowsy Party members remembered that days ago they were bragging of returning confiscated property to rightful owners .

anyhow the PM is beaming with yet another victory . Before apparently calling Mustafa Kemal a drunkard he reminded protecting the Youth from harmful substances was a Constitutional duty as written in Article 58 . Some enterprising journalists have looked up and it seems that article starts with admonition that the foremost duty of the State is to uphold its Secular properties . When he was visiting the US , his wife was given a book as a present , something like understanding dictators or something and ı have no doubt that they see nothing wrong with that .



Spoiler :

and what can you do , afterall ? It's the world order that says they will be what they will be and does anything else ever matter ? The economic bubble -on which the popularity of the Goverment rests on- seem assured by the recent increases in credit ratings and they might feel there is not further need for care . Care for things implying how they slowly tranform the country to something else . To reach out to their voter base .

there wasn't much fuss on why Turkey didn't take part in this year's Eurovision Song Contest . Instead of a lovely spectacle of how the Goverment was actually against music and semi-nude lewd dancing , it was a nationalistic tantrum on the changed rules on voting . Devout Muslims are already assumed to be in the bag , not much perceived need to work on them . Reality ? It's not even the basic assumption that the Islamists have given all hope of winning the contest like Sertab Erener did in the dark days when Democracy was still in shackles ; they once even chose a Jew to represent the country , you know . It's simply an oil deal . Aliyev of Azerbeycan loves to win ; to the extent of looking the other way when electronics guys erased all the SMS votes Russians took from Azerbeycan . Though don't expect Putin bombing Baku anytime soon for that ... Our tantrum made a whole lot of free floating votes available , Erener actually had won when the Turks in Belgium carried out an inspired campaign and made Belgium's 12 points for Turkey , something lower and Belgium would have won . There is of course absolutely no casuality between all these and the reports that the winning Danish entry had a Turkish wedding as the dance theme . Reports ; as ı have never liked watching Eurovision . When it was a national duty of sorts in the 1980s , to loose sleep in front of the TVs , ı have seen we winning an exact aggregate total of 0 votes , twice ...

oil permeates everything in Turkey . Really it does . Oil we don't have but will take from the Arabs , but not the Gulf Arabs and it's unavoidable as the inevitable decay of America . There is no such decay but the concept guides the new Turkey .

the real brilliance of the decade when America fought the War on Terror is simply an adoptation of a bog standart method long used . It was the 1990s when ı saw it in Time or Newsweek that textiles business always has rising stars , the next wonders that will take the world by a storm of sewing machines , sweat and tears and very rarely blood of the almost-chattel and the contracts piling and piling until the designated country will finally jump in with both feet . To buy all the machines needed to achieve global domination , on the "cheap" as the Western countries had grown lazy and their workers had all sorts of unions and didn't like working and the West would have no use for a textiles industry afterwards . Oh yes , immediately followed by the contracts drying and going somewhere else and the lazy Western workers using shiny spanking new machine-plant as "bought" by African , Asian or Latin American money . And tumbleweeds flew around in yet another "new textiles Mecca of the world" that would never be . And there was no way out of it , If America gave you a quota of 242 780 bikini tops , you either fullfilled your quota or sulked while America gave it to Mexico . When ı was an Industrial Engineering student in 1991 , it must have been mentioned on the very first day of school to stress the importance of careful analysis and long term planning . That Nasser's Eygpt built the biggest vacuum tube factory of the world , right after transistors were financially available .




Spoiler :

let me be simple to explain how our brilliantly smart guiding lights see this . ı might use brackets to tell what ı think ...

the West wants to control oil . Controlling oil is best done with Divide and Rule . Ergo there has to be a Kurdish state in the Middle East . But old school rabidly mad Turkishness , reared in what must be the ultimate in Fascist / Communist combination , would oppose . West is , in the final analysis , effeminate ; can't fight those who fight back . Ergo the West needs a partner in Turkey . And will pay well !

[ the financial crisis of 2001 destroyed political Center , as carefully orchestrated by a Goverment Minister appointed to save country , leaving his post at the World Bank . He even started a rebellion against the then Goverment by organizing a new party and when it got enough steam , simply disappeared . A NATO country , a state that bragged of being in existence for 2000 years plus couldn't locate a Goverment member for 11 days . The affairs of late 1990s had already removed the previous incarnation of Islamists who were kinda Nationalists and even more horribly , favoured state monopolies . They loved Saudi funding but could have turned Turkish at the last moment . Whatever Turkish means in this context ... The Minister of course returned to his post at the World Bank . ]

then America loses the war in Iraq . [ No , it didn't but don't expect anybody to believe it ; ı am already claiming ı have taken the very 1701 on a couple of Warp tests while it was on builder's trials . ] Oh the Kurds are now orphans , they need a Daddy to run to . And America then finally bites the bullet and declares it's impotent and would somebody be Daddy to Mommas of the Middle East's ? America will assist as long as its interests are protected .

[thus begins a puppet show where Turkey befriends everybody America can't . Going everywhere America can't . Oh even there is a new face in the White House . Mind you Turkey is not the only Daddy wannabe -and America is talking to everybody . As such , under the benevolent humility of the Nobel Peace Laurate , the entire Middle East is eager for a change]

far too many brackets , ı presume ... Maybe ı should give them up .

an accident on the way removes Jordan from the fray and carries Tunisia into democracy . Not really important since Egypt follows as "planned" . It turns bloody now . An Arab nation-state , a real heavyweight can not interfere in Libya and the cake remains in the hands Gulf Oil states . Saudi-Egyptian clashes were not much to the liking of Riyad in the 1960s anyhow .

considering Algeria is a French backyard (with oil ) and America doesn't want to rock the boat that much and Iraq has been turned into a nuclear wasteland a few times over , that only leaves Syria as a Arab country that could oppose those peace loving American friends residing on the shores of the Gulf .



Spoiler :

and then here we are . A booming economy crowned with success after success where nothing can stand in the way of the new Turkey . To the extent of surviving the 2008 crisis almost unscathed as we are still a "developing country" and there is room for growth and the "puny" size of our economy makes it possible for the Gulf Oil wealth to bankroll even during the said 2008 crisis [Child's play.] The newly elites still have a couple who retain some contact with the reality and still know a touch of a button and the resulting lack of funds will burst our bubble so fast and so hard that nobody will be able to collect the pieces . Anyhow we were right there , to be an inspiration , a beacon of hope for the Arab street so that people living there could look for a better life and wipe out anybody who stood in the way .

ankara's dalliance with Beşar Esad actually predates the Islamists . His father , Hafız , was very unhappy with the designated behind the scenes successor Mahir (Beşar's brother) and his warmongering accompanied with a certain lack of success in the almost-war-of-1998 . This caused Ankara to assume the rift in the family could be used to America's advantage to teaching and then controlling the eye-doctor who would one day replace his father .

america's advantage , 'cause the internal political requirements for the justification of the Secular State that would fight the Islamist Backwardness for the next Thousand years required a tangible anti-Americanism . Especially the Turkish Military [American puppet par excellence -between you and me] was looking morbidly alienated and anti-Americaine ... the Secular State had to be useful for America to survive and Beşar Esad was the way .

at this juncture one must talk of the divergence . America needs us only to break Syria into tiny pieces , small enough for the Gulf Arabs to control without undue effort . Secular Ankara had been promising influence in the shadows , the Islamists jumped into open friendship . With unhidden suggestions that the Islamic Brotherhood had to be allowed to thrive -so that one day it could topple the Alawite rule . This toppling was of course remained unsaid to the Syrians , but how to put it , they would have done exactly the same thing , considering they had been running Lebanon in the same exact way for quite a while ...

the Islamists were also casting glances in the way of Iraq . Because nobody actually likes the Kurds , nor feel a need to "share" . The 101% certain loss of a quarter of Turkey could be balanced with gains elsewhere , which seemed possible to the level of 505% ; with promised Saudi funding , rhetoric on how great Sunnis we were and a Syrian Secular Shiite influence to counter Iran in the affairs of Iraq . To cover all the bases there was even a search of Alliance -without being reported in duplicate to Washington D.C... With Iran . Against the freakingly awesome United States of America who could come bombing Iranian nuclear facilities , but kept out of it by smooth Turkish lullabies ...

iranians feel the archaic Turks were a bunch of horse mounted but utterly foolish savages and they taught us anything we know ; meaning they played Ankara with glee . Tahran had done quite well with the rape of Iraq , and by 2011 Iran's gain from Syria's loss was to be the final section of the contract they did with the US . Unhindered completion and fielding of a nuclear force , which they foremost wanted to be secure against us , in case we were compelled to take part in a general intra-Islam fight , brought on by Saudi or Iranian mistake or intent in the usual affairs . Please remember Pakistanis were quite capable of being fond of us , before America's Afganistan "debacle" made it possible for a quite new generation to rise . Obama says Iranian "use" is unacceptable , at least according to Turkish media reports .





Spoiler :

returning to the daily bloodbath of Syria , Iranians were quite content to see their allies whacked as after the Holocaust that would take place in the country , the loyalty of the survivors to Iran would be unquestionable . For they wouldn't survive without unquestionability . Similarly it's only now that the Hizbullah is fighting to fight for its "lifeline" , since before Esad consolidated and quite unfortunately learned a few tricks in the arts of butchery , they were looking to a territorial expansion at the Syrian side of the border with Lebanon . And this in a war the West has long been justifying as a good cause to isolate and suffocate Hizbullah .

the on and off thing with Syria is the Russians . They were content to feel that it was the way the world turned when Saakashvili attacked them in 2008 ; and had to eat his tie on TV as he couldn't beat the rabble of the Red Army with one slap of his hand . America bombs only those who can't bomb back , the Russians weren't particularly alarmed when Georgians daily put pictures of F-15s on the web . The more alarming thing was when Americans , with Seoul in tow , came to them asking for assistance in proving that the torpedo that sank the Cheonan was a German type transferred from Pakistan , but not sold to Pakistan as an individual item . The April Fools Day memorandum was one thing . This was quite another . Russians have spent some 40 years in the Cold War to know a bit on how loyal some countries are , to those who hold its leash . There was even an attempt to get Russian signatures on official documents regarding the reduction gear for the screws as discovered on the sea bed . When they know there are no such thing on that Chinese thing ; how could sonar operators hear screws when there are no screws ...

oh yes , the traitorous Turkish Navy doesn't know what was in store . For being Zionist agents who oppose any Turkish move for self-sufficiency in military affairs and taking a stance against South Korea , which somehow appears in any Turkish project as over-priced partners . Let them babble against documents supposedly written in 2003 by using a font Microsoft introduced in 2007 ...

as such Russian desire for a balance of sorts -between the West hugely rich and the West utter fools yet expert backstabbers - gets Moscow to gyrate between selling Esad and saving Esad . It really depends . this week this way , next week that way ...

but the plan goes on . America doesn't waste time .



Spoiler :

the plan , as said , is a Kurdish state with oil , that will destabilize its neighbours and will require continious , but comparatively cheaper American intervention and supervision . Even the Kurds don't believe that , apparently now they have 200 000 under arms or something . Let them face ... their neighbours without American cover and start the chronometer for demands of assistance .

for Ankara , the failure to get a piece of oil action from the Shiite Iraq , for we would get them to fight the Kurds on our behalf and sell their oil , simply by keeping the Sunni Iraq as an ally instead of an enemy means only one thing remains : wagging the tail . It should have been obvious that the Gulf Arabs had quite a period of time to be active with the Sunnis since 1990 and they have all kinds of contacts . Currently used as bait to lure Ankara in , but don't tell this to Ankara . They are biggest original thinkers of this era ..

the net result is then this : The seperatists are the only ace in the sleeve for Turkey and those in Ankara think they thought this one all by themselves ... Right after they justifiy the greatness of the idea by saying had Özal done this , we would now be 25% bigger . And the traitorous Military had Özal poisoned for he would do this .

and it shows . Last year two guys in some cave in some mountain surrendered to the soldiers and the talking going on was released online and else to show the compassionate side of Turkey . This week these two guys both got life in prison sentences despite their arguments that they were to be released and this was promised to them ; betraying the seperatists will not go unpunished in the new Turkey ...

returning to earlier spoilers , you can check the heroism of the not Rachel Corrie . It's not enough to impose that being a Turk is tantamount to being an oppressor of the poor Kurds , we also see they are way manlier . Because there are so many pontifications on how we will slowly slowly catchee monkee the new Kurdish state , on how they have no access to sea and they need our , only our protection , on how we are building their infrastructure and everything , no doubt with our own money , and it will be all ours one day , someday . Because we now made peace with the terrorists . How easy for the leaders of the political wing of the seperatists talking for the glory of the union and so on and how the jaws drop to the floor hearing them talk .


not to make it too obvious , there are a few operations going on , with drug eradication . People still have the guts to brag on TV that the police and the military entered some villages for the first time in 7 years and 7 tons of stuff was captured and even the political head guy of the area arrived at the scene and demanded the release of the merchandize or the peace process would suffer . Yeah , if Barzani has oil wells , our dear seperatists have drug fields , that's how they will buy their way in .



Spoiler :

and all we hear is how great the future is . As such the previously mentioned "Peace is good, mmkay?" Committees are officially renamed "Hülya Koçyiğit and just a few are not traitors."

the future is obviously bright unless you are not prone to traitorousness . Or an idiot like me . It's always conditioning , sort of Pavlovian reflexes , that people learn things have changed and one must follow suit . The committees tell us , repeated a thousand times by all those people who write in newspapers and appear on TVs that we have thousands years of state experience and our clients , those lessers will not be able to infiltrate and will remain where they are . And when the Youth in the Southeast demand a seperate state , because their uncles were killed while they were trying to kill some conscripts sent from an equally poor region in Central Anatolia . And they can't "live their youth" freely for they will certainly be shot in the street if they put an arm around a girl in the way the boys in the West do , without reminding if the girl is their own sister she will be dead within 5 minutes and the blood feud will last 50 years if they can manage to shoot the other guy first . If they can't , the next 50 years is already irrelevant , isn't it ? No sir, it's the fault of the Turks . We hear hints of dissatisfaction at the slow pace of events , the Red and White Crescent and Star is still casting a shadow over there but the overall reports are so soothing .

maybe ı should remind here that a majority of people are not nuts over there , over here , all around the world . Everybody wants to live to see the next day . Have no doubts that there is a relief at the possibility of no trouble but as said the propaganda is beguiling , to excess ... Enough to get the spiritual leader of the Congregation to warn his flock to wake up . He was once fighting the Goverment's war against the Communists in the 70's . He was once fighting the Goverment's war against Sunni-but-Humeyni-wannabes in the 80's . He was once fighting the Goverment's war to infiltrate the Secular State in the 90's . He was once fighting the Goverment's war to destroy the Army in the 2000's . He was once fighting his own war to be the Goverment in the 2010's . Well , the Party came from behind and is now pulling ahead .. The Congregation seems to have discovered they are far too Turkish for the dominion of Arabs of the Gulf , who has real American support in the bid to tame Islam , with some vengeance .

the Party will do likewise , learning they are still Turks in the eyes of the whole damned world , but that has to wait a bit . For the wholesale destruction of the Turkish Military , State and whatever and what not . There are people who have seen Cambodia before it was a tourist destination ; they are not surprised their view that some of the current opinion leaders will not survive the plan even as concubines is not mentioned , even as a joke .


edit on June 1st : Taksim riots here
 
Given some exceptions in the past (and the current Administrations' active interference with Iran's NWP), American Cyberwarfare efforts have been largely defensive (white hat).

The two main problems have been that, as you correctly point out, the advanced technology transfers have been a largely one-way phenomena, and that the Chinese (and Russians) can steel the technologies through the poorly defended corporate contractors (who decline to admit they've been hacked) - as was certainly the case with the F35 event.

Spoiler :
Masters of the cyber-universe

“They don’t care if they get caught,” says Dmitri Alperovitch, who used to work at McAfee, a computer-security firm, where he helped analyse several Chinese hacking operations in 2010 and 2011, and is a co-founder of CrowdStrike, another cyber-security firm. The indiscriminate tactics of China’s 2010-11 campaign made it relatively easy to track. His team identified more than 70 victims (among many more unidentified ones), dating back to 2006, and found that the average time the hackers stayed inside a computer network was almost a year. “They’ll go into an organisation and then stay there for five, six years, which of course increases the chances that they get caught.”

I'm curious, if the US decided to change it's stance and not play nice in the Cyberwar, is there anything we could do to royally screw up China? It seems like we have a greater dependency upon our machines than China has on theirs. Mess up our machines and you mess up our system. Mess up China's machines and life goes on as usual. Or is that not an accurate assessment?
 
one maybe should first oppose the notion of poorly defended Western contractors . They are not , but then tougher targets would make the atackers look better .
 
oh my oh my... Specialist sites now report the Syrian freedom fighter dudes have been regularly clashing with the Turkish Army and a train has been de-railed for we have been trying to stop the smuggling . Fed up with all these , the Military has yesterday announced an APC was fired upon , and the dear media reporting the report without saying anything on who was firing . Go to Hell is a phrase so hard to misunderstand , but then nobody can reach our new glory , eh ?
 
130531-D-BW835-280.jpg


Secretary of Defense Chuck Hagel, left, greets Deputy Chief of General Staff for the People's Liberation Army Gen. Qi Jianguo at the start of the Shangri-La Dialogue in Singapore, on May 31, 2013. Hagel told Qi that President Obama is looking forward to hosting Chinese President Xi in California to discuss areas of mutual concern.
 
A story about a new surveillance camera for drones being developed by the busy fellows at Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) seems to have flown under the radar of this thread.


Link to video.

News story from Jan 28th this year

I thought it highly interesting in relation to NSA's PRISM and the potential for a persistent and complete mass surveillance of a whole modern city. All being analyzed in real-time with digital tools that we haven't heard of yet but are probably being coded and tested somewhere in a lab. Daily data collection of one of these Eye in the Sky's is 6 petabyte... Something that I might think would be the limiting factor for data storage over time.
 
Holy effin' hell; "a million terabytes a day." :eek:
 
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