[MOD] Fall from Heaven

[loki1232]

Btw have you guys seen Sevo's Faces of God mod? Its incredible and I really suggest you incorporate it. If you agree I will go crazy and redo it for FfH (in a design doc)=http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=156699

 

[Kael]

Btw I really think that the demons should be made stronger. I'm not selling my soul for those puny things! Also, I think that all of the veil's specialists and temples (and to a lesser extent the OO's) should contribute GP points to demons.

Heh, your right. But I need a penalty to counteract their increased strength. What seems right?

 

[loki1232]

Heh, your right. But I need a penalty to counteract their increased strength. What seems right?

Maybe any unit that kills them gets the demon slaying production? This will make people be careful with them.

Also, is it possible to have forts get stronger with new techs? ie: construction, engineerinng, mechanics?
I would do it by having those techs each reveal a new promotion. That promorion would be temporarily granted to your units when on the space. Of course, only use my method if you can't make them stronger more easily.

 

[Kael]

Btw have you guys seen Sevo's Faces of God mod? Its incredible and I really suggest you incorporate it. If you agree I will go crazy and redo it for FfH (in a design doc)=http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=156699

Sevo is such a stud, this does look like cool stuff. But Sevo's mod is brand new and has a lot of python, he will probably need more time to get the kinks worked out then we have before the end of Phase one.

But this could all be good stuff for Phase 2.

This isn't to say I'm against adding other mods to 1.0 (Im adding Haarbals civs in right now).

 

[loki1232]

1. Sevo is such a stud, this does look like cool stuff. But Sevo's mod is brand new and has a lot of python, he will probably need more time to get the kinks worked out then we have before the end of Phase one.

But this could all be good stuff for Phase 2.

2. This isn't to say I'm against adding other mods to 1.0 (Im adding Haarbals civs in right now).

1. I just really like the wonders/founders/TERRORISTS
Basically more religious differenciating would be nice.

2. Does he have a vampire civ in there yet? I really think one would be nice.

 

[loki1232]

I was just reading the civpedia entry on Valin. Very interesting. Why is it from the tale of Saverous? What is the connection of Valin and sSaverous? Could we possible exploit it in quest?

 

[Kael]

I was just reading the civpedia entry on Valin. Very interesting. Why is it from the tale of Saverous? What is the connection of Valin and sSaverous? Could we possible exploit it in quest?

The short version of the story is that when the priest is killed that summoned the demon that is possessing Saverous, Saverous is freed. Then we have the following (which is the opening chapter of the Tale of Saverous):

I was the Burnt Priests thrall for 17 years. A mindless creature, my will completely subjected to his. No more than a puppet who played out the darkest of his desires. He had thralls for many purposes, mine was to kill.

A thrall is not unfeeling, just unchoosing. I felt exactly what he wanted me to. If he wanted me to feel remorse, I did. If he wanted me to delight in the pain and suffering I caused, then I did. Most of the time, because he didn't care, I felt nothing.

He was killed just over three years ago. I stood in the middle of a Bannor swordsman phylaynx, a mountain of dead bodies around me. Easily 3' foot taller than the largest soldier I was an unstoppable green giant. Glowing runes covered my body, making me stronger, making my skin harder than stone, his power coursing through me.

The moment he died I had my first real thought since the day he found me, it was one of confusion. The massive obsidion cudgel I wielded, that was always in my hand, was suddenly so heavy. It was covered in gore and blood, its sharp edges glistening. The end dipped toward the earth. I wondered if I should exert more force to hold it up or grab it with both hands, that was my first real thought.

After 17 years even a simple decision is paralyzing. He had been killed, in that instant his conjurered legions returned to their remote worlds. The magic that strengthened me failed and my mind was free. A cry of triumph went up from the armies of the Bannor, cheering by men granted the gift of life on a day most thought would be their last. And I stood only blankly staring at my heavy club.

I was chained, dragged from the battlefield and kept under close guard by men waiting for any excuse to kill me. But they didn't need the chains, what was I going to do? Did they think I could jump up and run out of the camp, tear a tent pole from the ground and attack a guard with it? The choices, the options were overwhelming. I felt my bladder growing slowly strained and then the warmth of my own urine spilling on my legs. I just sat and waited for the voice that commanded me to return.

For all of their purported devotion to honor the armies of Bannor would have killed me had it not been for a diminutive herbalist named Pontif Elim. The single dissenting voice, he claimed I was another victim of the Burnt Priest. Even a greater victim than those slautered at Prespur, those the army strove to avenge. He claimed I was not dangerous.

For weeks he cared for me, feeding me, giving me water. The only way at first was for him to command me to drink it, yelling and screaming he could force me to swallow. That was the limit of his control over me. My mind sought a voice to lead it, and with all his energy he was able to get me to swallow, to keep me from dying. I wanted to follow, but my mind wanted the return of the Burnt Priests voice.

In time he could have controlled me. In a few weeks he didn’t have to scream as long or as loud. I could have been an automoton again without any magic at all. But then he stopped telling me what to do. He sat the food in front of me and I stared at it. I was starving and I wanted him to tell me to eat it so badly. My feelings had returned, my desires were slowly coming back, but I still couldn't do anything.

The first few times he had to break down and tell me to eat the food. But each time he waited a little longer, each time I grew hungrier. Until finally I slowly, incredably slowly, reached out and picked up the piece of cheese in my hand. I held it unbelieving, my head lost with the concept of getting the fist sized piece of cheese into my mouth, my stomach screaming for it. And I did it. I raised it to my mouth and ate.

Pontif jumped and screamed. The tiny mans white robes and beard bounced randomly as he cheered. He lept and hugged me, it was to much for my throbbing head and I shut down again.

He struggled to maintain his composure the next time I ate. Standing as far from me as he could in the cramped barn he had converted to my home he watched in glee as I ate nearly half a cooked chicken.

Then he began moving the food around. He had always set it right in front of me, on the closest side of faded red tack box I used for a table. Then he started moving it away. Again my mind was overwhelmed by the decisions. But in time I got used to this as well.

One day he had set the food far enough away that I had to crawl to get to it. I had done it a few times before, it was a slow process but I picked it up relatively easily. But on this day, after I crawled to the food I just sat and stared at it. For almost two hours I stared at the cut of crusted bread. Pontif watched, afraid I had suffered another setback on such a minor part of the task. But after 2 hours I reached out and picked up a furry caterpillar that had crawled onto it. Setting it carefully aside I then reached and ate the bread. That was the day I truly awoke.

- The Tale of Saverous, Act I, Chapter I

And on and on and on. Valin is an Oath-taker (read Rosiers pedia entry for more about the Oath-takers) who is sent to absolve, or kill Saverous. He is unable to determine what to do because he still senses powerful evil from Saverous but his heart tells him that Saverous is honest when he says he regrets the actions the Burnt Priest forced him to do. So the two end up traveling together to try to find absolution for Saverous. The person Valin is talking to in Valin's pedia entry is Saverous and takes place during that journey.

Kael's entry is also from the Tale of Saverous and covers what Kael does to earn him some credit with the demons.

Quest-wise I was thinking about having a seperate unit that is the Burnt Priest, if the Burnt Priest is killed Saverous becomes a free agent. Alternativly I was also thinking about just having Saveorus be "capurable".

Incidently I was thinking about making all heroes captuarable. But they would be captured as 0 combat units. Then if the 0 combat unit is captured by a civ that is appropriate religion they become their full hero version again. That way you would have a chance to go rescue your fallen heroes.

 

[loki1232]

1. Quest-wise I was thinking about having a seperate unit that is the Burnt Priest, if the Burnt Priest is killed Saverous becomes a free agent.

2. Incidently I was thinking about making all heroes captuarable. But they would be captured as 0 combat units. Then if the 0 combat unit is captured by a civ that is appropriate religion they become their full hero version again. That way you would have a chance to go rescue your fallen heroes.

1. I really like the idea with the burnt priest. Maybe the Burnt Priest is needed to create Saverous, as well as some other heros. If he dies they would all go free agent.

2. Now way. I don't want my heros captured!

Also, what did you think of my responses/ideas earlier?

 

[Kizor]

You know what would be really fun? If we took one of the large Earth maps, added the FfH resources, then played it as FfH. Also, once we get the civs we can match them to where the real-world civ Kael is basing them off of came from. And of course, some embellishment is allowed. Otherwise Europe would get mighty crowded.

GET OUT OF MY HEAD! I was thinking of FfH on Earth just as I made my last post, but as I know squat about these things dismissed it as likely unfeasible.

Will the Spartan line hold before the undead Persians? Will blood sacrifices of the Mexica throw back the invading gun-users? Is the class revolution inevitable in the presence of disaffected workers and their magical animal companions? There's one way to find out!

 

[Kavok]

You can take Sevo's mod idea and apply to it other aspects of the game.

Why not do the same thing for each civilization? When it reachs X amount of people, overall culture, money, etc.. they recieve a unit that will let them build a type of national wonder that helps to define the civilization as a whole.

I think the religions in this mod already have plenty of flavor, but Sevos idea could let you incorperate the aspect of religious 'sects'.

 

[Kael]

GET OUT OF MY HEAD! I was thinking of FfH on Earth just as I made my last post, but as I know squat about these things dismissed it as likely unfeasible.

Will the Spartan line hold before the undead Persians? Will blood sacrifices of the Mexica throw back the invading gun-users? Is the class revolution inevitable in the presence of disaffected workers and their magical animal companions? There's one way to find out!

Loki has a strange talent for cross-internet mind reading. I think he's Ms Cloe in real life.

 

[Zindaine]

First off, Kael. LOVE THE MOD! simple brings a whole new level of excitement to an already great game. I can't wait to see what you do for each version. I have all my friends hooked on it. They don't play Civ without your mod anymore.

Now for my question. I am having multiplayer problems. My friends and I always like playing LAN games together and we always did and could. We had a host and the others connected to him in the LAN lobby like always. However when we load the MOD we can't see his game in the LAN lobby at all. We can connect via DirectIP but when we did that we had OOS issues like crazy. We turned off all firewalls and virus protection and have Civ 4 in our exclusion list. But not sure why that would matter if we can see the game in normal Civ 4 but not the MOD. Now one of my friends could see the host and I couldn't now we both can't see the host. We do have a router for our cable modem but since we're behind it on a hub that shouldn't matter, because we see each other normally. We can share files and all that but just can't see each other in the LAN Lobby during a MOD.

Does anyone know what could be causing this problem to occur and have any advice for me? It would be most appreciated!

Thanks so much!

 

[Kael]

You can take Sevo's mod idea and apply to it other aspects of the game.

Why not do the same thing for each civilization? When it reachs X amount of people, overall culture, money, etc.. they recieve a unit that will let them build a type of national wonder that helps to define the civilization as a whole.

I think the religions in this mod already have plenty of flavor, but Sevos idea could let you incorperate the aspect of religious 'sects'.

I agree. I would definitly prefer to use ideas like this to distingush the civs instead of the religions. I tihnk we focus a lot on the religions because thats what we have to work with right now. But as we start adding civ's in and really filling out their roles these sort of ideas will be aweosme to implement.

And I agree on all the religions except for the Veil. Loki had suggested a t4 unit for the Veil that would require a sacrifice of some sort, or (as some other poster had mentioned) that it can only be built when at war with the order. I want to get that in 1.0.

 

[loki1232]

You can take Sevo's mod idea and apply to it other aspects of the game.

1. Why not do the same thing for each civilization? When it reachs X amount of people, overall culture, money, etc.. they recieve a unit that will let them build a type of national wonder that helps to define the civilization as a whole.

2. I think the religions in this mod already have plenty of flavor, but Sevos idea could let you incorperate the aspect of religious 'sects'.

1. I really like that idea for the other aspects of the game. Don't forget military though...

2. Nice idea. What if each religion had a bunch of wonders that gave abilities based on the religion, but also balanced in the same way as Sevo's.

 

[Kael]

First off, Kael. LOVE THE MOD! simple brings a whole new level of excitement to an already great game. I can't wait to see what you do for each version. I have all my friends hooked on it. They don't play Civ without your mod anymore.

Now for my question. I am having multiplayer problems. My friends and I always like playing LAN games together and we always did and could. We had a host and the others connected to him in the LAN lobby like always. However when we load the MOD we can't see his game in the LAN lobby at all. We can connect via DirectIP but when we did that we had OOS issues like crazy. We turned off all firewalls and virus protection and have Civ 4 in our exclusion list. But not sure why that would matter if we can see the game in normal Civ 4 but not the MOD. Now one of my friends could see the host and I couldn't now we both can't see the host. We do have a router for our cable modem but since we're behind it on a hub that shouldn't matter, because we see each other normally. We can share files and all that but just can't see each other in the LAN Lobby during a MOD.

Does anyone know what could be causing this problem to occur and have any advice for me? It would be most appreciated!

Thanks so much!

I don't know the answer to this as I haven't tested multi-player at all. I tohught people had said they had played it multi-player. Can anyone help Zindaine out?

 

[loki1232]

And I agree on all the religions except for the Veil. Loki had suggested a t4 unit for the Veil that would require a sacrifice of some sort, or (as some other poster had mentioned) that it can only be built when at war with the order. I want to get that in 1.0.

I think population sacrifices (demon feasting off the flesh of your subjects). Maybe being at war with the order would make demons be produced quicker.

 

[Kael]

I think population sacrifices (demon feasting off the flesh of your subjects). Maybe being at war with the order would make demons be produced quicker.

Sounds good, I'll add the population sacrifice to the unit.

 

[loki1232]

I have an idea for a new civic category.

Military Doctrine
0. No Doctrine: (basic one)
Low Upkeep
1. Pirate Raids:
+500% gold rom pillaging.
Ships carry one more unit.
-1 Trade route per city.
Low Upkeep
2. Guerilla Warfare:
All units gain Guerilla I, II and Woodsman I, II.
+100% War Weariness for civs at war with you.
Peaks, Ice, passable by all units.
Medium Upkeep
3. Scorched Earth:
Captured Cities must be razed.
All specialists give +2 great commander points.
+20% strength when attacking cities.
Medium Upkeep
4. Mobile Army:
All units built with mobility I, blitz.
All units get +20% retreat chance.
Can't Pillage.
High Upkeep
5. Neutralism:
No drafting units.
+1 unhappiness per unit in a city, or its radius.
+1 gold support for each unit.
-15% unit build speed.
No unhappiness for having 0 units in a city.
Unhappiness peanalties for other civs.
No great commanders produced.
No Upkeep

Any more suggestions?

 

[Kael]

I have an idea for a new civic category.

Military Doctrine
0. No Doctrine: (basic one)
Low Upkeep
1. Pirate Raids:
+500% gold rom pillaging.
Ships carry one more unit.
-1 Trade route per city.
Low Upkeep
2. Guerilla Warfare:
All units gain Guerilla I, II and Woodsman I, II.
+100% War Weariness for civs at war with you.
Peaks, Ice, passable by all units.
Medium Upkeep
3. Scorched Earth:
Captured Cities must be razed.
All specialists give +2 great commander points.
+20% strength when attacking cities.
Medium Upkeep
4. Mobile Army:
All units built with mobility I, blitz.
All units get +20% retreat chance.
Can't Pillage.
High Upkeep
5. Neutralism:
No drafting units.
+1 unhappiness per unit in a city, or its radius.
+1 gold support for each unit.
-15% unit build speed.
No unhappiness for having 0 units in a city.
Unhappiness peanalties for other civs.
No great commanders produced.
No Upkeep

Any more suggestions?

I love these ideas. I may make them into traits instead of civics though. I really like the Scorched Earth and Pirate Raids ones.

 

[loki1232]

Will the Spartan line hold before the undead Persians? Will blood sacrifices of the Mexica throw back the invading gun-users? Is the class revolution inevitable in the presence of disaffected workers and their magical animal companions? There's one way to find out!

I bet we can put together some fun "alternate history" scenarios with exactly that.
I mean imagine how different Alexander the Great conquest would be in a FfH world.

And of course, will my Indian Crusaders be able to defeat the Chinese Demons? The British Mage Ships?
Will the Dwarven mines in Tibet be more profitable than the Elven Lumbermills on the Nile?

Also, on a totally different topic, could you let lumbermills be built on jungles?