[MOD] Fall from Heaven

[AljayBoy]

All of the golems and demons are immune to the plague and disease.

Well then why was my Meshabber and golems losing health when they moved? This is what I was refering to on page 185 when I also mentioned the ships losing health when they moved also. You stated quite correctly that the idea was that the seamen who manned the ships could catch Disease and Plague, however, by the same principle they should be also able to be cured then. As priest cant cast when they are aboard ships the only other alternative is to cast when you are in a city.

The difficulty is you cant cast spells in cities, and with this being the only time priests and ships can occupy the same tile without the priest being aboard the ship then that makes ships uncurable. Whew, bit of a long winded way of saying that I know!

 

[Kael]

Well then why was my Meshabber and golems losing health when they moved? This is what I was refering to on page 185 when I also mentioned the ships losing health when they moved also. You stated quite correctly that the idea was that the seamen who manned the ships could catch Disease and Plague, however, by the same principle they should be also able to be cured then. As priest cant cast when they are aboard ships the only other alternative is to cast when you are in a city.

The difficulty is you cant cast spells in cities, and with this being the only time priests and ships can occupy the same tile withoutthe priest being aboard the ship then that makes ships uncurable. Whew, bit of a long winded way of saying that I know!

Priests will be able to cast spells in cities and onboard ships in version 2. I'll make ships immune to disease in 1.0 to work around this until then.

Meshabber's fire aura hurts all units around him (he is usally tough enough to not be hurt by it himself). You can look at a units promotions to see if they are dieased, plagued or immune to disease.

 

[CurtisC]

0.95 is awesome, I've really been enjoying it. I wanted to briefly touch on three or four different subjects that have been brough up recently.

I've played several games now where war weariness resumes as soon as the player goes to war again. If was is declared on you this isn't the case, but starting a war against an opponent you've allready been at war with (and declared war upon) refosters the unhappiness. I haven't seen if this disappears if you attack other civs, then go back to the one that you first attacked.

You've been talking about modding the sea-faring trait to make it more compettitive. I think that it needs a boost, and the exclusive resource idea is a good one, but maybe adding an exclusive tech that would provide costal hammers from the sea some time midgame would be a benefit, something after optics or astronomy (or concurrent with astronomy but only affecting seafaring leaders), or even better after mind-stapling. Maybe you could have commanders provide the boost to non-seafaring leaders? If you go the extra tech route I think certain other routes need to be blocked like Masonry (although they'd have to get a freebee onto construction) and allow them to mine coral or seashells instead. Then you could give seashells or coral a + 100% build rate on harbor, lighthouse, great light house, and dry docks. To animate it you could just turn offshore oil pink or something?

I've also noticed that the tech Hidden paths never shows up on the pop-up tech menu. Maybe that's intentional, but it threw me for a few games (. . . I know my lumber mills should make more than this).

I think if you are going all overboard with the seafaring you should include like somesort of cavedwelling/treehugging traits (e.g. all land units stat with ignore respective terrain movement costs/can build cottages/farms on all terrain versions (dessert hills, etc) or on forrests/ jungles w/o removing the forrest or jungle. Maybe even a no -1 food penalty or health cost associated with the jungle.

The above is probably way to involved (and powerful -a financial treehugging leader would be rediculous) and would have to be countered with like houseboats->floating cities for the seafaring traits. On the other hand maybe all of the leaders could have three traits, with one of them being reserved for a mobility/production specialty?

Also, what are the requirements for the bascilica building? Do you have to have order in the city? (Probably on pedia, but I'm at work and can't look it up).

In any case thanks for a tremendous mod!

 

[Fr8Train]

Okay. Can someone who have noticed the out of sync problem when casting try this in a multiplayer game. It should disable the camera focus on the new spell in multiplayer games.

http://www.civfanatics.net/~kael/files/FfH095e.exe

Please let me know what you find out. I have no way to test this.

I'm going to be starting a multiplayer game in a couple hours. Can you explain to me what I should be looking for? Is the problem when your mages cast a spell?

 

[Kael]

0.95 is awesome, I've really been enjoying it. I wanted to briefly touch on three or four different subjects that have been brough up recently.

I've played several games now where war weariness resumes as soon as the player goes to war again. If was is declared on you this isn't the case, but starting a war against an opponent you've allready been at war with (and declared war upon) refosters the unhappiness. I haven't seen if this disappears if you attack other civs, then go back to the one that you first attacked.

You've been talking about modding the sea-faring trait to make it more compettitive. I think that it needs a boost, and the exclusive resource idea is a good one, but maybe adding an exclusive tech that would provide costal hammers from the sea some time midgame would be a benefit, something after optics or astronomy (or concurrent with astronomy but only affecting seafaring leaders), or even better after mind-stapling. Maybe you could have commanders provide the boost to non-seafaring leaders? If you go the extra tech route I think certain other routes need to be blocked like Masonry (although they'd have to get a freebee onto construction) and allow them to mine coral or seashells instead. Then you could give seashells or coral a + 100% build rate on harbor, lighthouse, great light house, and dry docks. To animate it you could just turn offshore oil pink or something?

I've also noticed that the tech Hidden paths never shows up on the pop-up tech menu. Maybe that's intentional, but it threw me for a few games (. . . I know my lumber mills should make more than this).

Civilizatiosn with the Fellowshp of Leaves are supposed to be the only ones who can research Hidden Paths. Unfortunatly there is a bug in the game that allows anyone to select it from the tech screen (the tech screen doesn't check the CannotResearch function). This is fixed in 1.0. In fact if you look at the tech list screenshot in the first few posts in this thread you will notice that all of the religious special techs are red, meanign they can't be researched. That screenshot was taken with 1.0.

I think if you are going all overboard with the seafaring you should include like somesort of cavedwelling/treehugging traits (e.g. all land units stat with ignore respective terrain movement costs/can build cottages/farms on all terrain versions (dessert hills, etc) or on forrests/ jungles w/o removing the forrest or jungle. Maybe even a no -1 food penalty or health cost associated with the jungle.

The above is probably way to involved (and powerful -a financial treehugging leader would be rediculous) and would have to be countered with like houseboats->floating cities for the seafaring traits. On the other hand maybe all of the leaders could have three traits, with one of them being reserved for a mobility/production specialty?

Also, what are the requirements for the bascilica building? Do you have to have order in the city? (Probably on pedia, but I'm at work and can't look it up).

In any case thanks for a tremendous mod!

Basilica must have Order in the city and have the Order as the state religion. Just like Treehome for the Fellowship, the Asylum for the Overlords and the Necropolis for the Veil. Runes to Kilmorph don't have a special building although they "claim" the Brewery as their own.

 

[Kael]

I'm going to be starting a multiplayer game in a couple hours. Can you explain to me what I should be looking for? Is the problem when your mages cast a spell?

Yeah, right now when you cast a spell your selection is moved to the spell. So when a mage casts a fireball the fireball becomes selected. I cant tell you how may times I accidently through a mage against a city because I had forgot I had to click on the fireball first.

The problem is that CvInterface appears to be global. So when I switch the focus to the fireball all human players are switches to the fireball. In this patch I disabled the switching if their is more than 1 human player in the game.

 

[Fr8Train]

Yeah, right now when you cast a spell your selection is moved to the spell. So when a mage casts a fireball the fireball becomes selected. I cant tell you how may times I accidently through a mage against a city because I had forgot I had to click on the fireball first.

The problem is that CvInterface appears to be global. So when I switch the focus to the fireball all human players are switches to the fireball. In this patch I disabled the switching if their is more than 1 human player in the game.

Ok cool, I'll let you know if its working sometime tonight. I have accidently thrown my share of mages at cities as well

 

[CurtisC]

Wow, thanks for getting back to me so quick.

Civilizatiosn with the Fellowshp of Leaves are supposed to be the only ones who can research Hidden Paths.

OK, so does that mean that in 1.0 you must have your state religion be Fellowship of Leaves before you can research hidden paths? Do you lose the lumbermill bonus if you switch religions afterwards ('cause I really like the lumbermill bonus )? If I switch to the order or something and then switch back will I have to re-research hidden paths?

Well thanks a lot,

 

[Morbius Wraith]

Ok 2 quickies.. not sure they are bugs or not. Typhoid Mary... I built her then when she was complete she never showed up?? Is she not in in .095? 2nd thing... the Armageddon Wonder that is supposed to summon demons continually from your city doesn't seem to be working... is this correct as of .095?

 

[Kael]

Wow, thanks for getting back to me so quick.

OK, so does that mean that in 1.0 you must have your state religion be Fellowship of Leaves before you can research hidden paths? Do you lose the lumbermill bonus if you switch religions afterwards ('cause I really like the lumbermill bonus )? If I switch to the order or something and then switch back will I have to re-research hidden paths?

Well thanks a lot,

No, you don't lose it. The bonus isn't a mystical advantage, its increased knowledge due to your peoples research into that area, so if they spend the time worshipping and researching that advnatage it isn't lost just because they change their beliefs.

 

[Kael]

Ok 2 quickies.. not sure they are bugs or not. Typhoid Mary... I built her then when she was complete she never showed up?? Is she not in in .095? 2nd thing... the Armageddon Wonder that is supposed to summon demons continually from your city doesn't seem to be working... is this correct as of .095?

She is definitly there and in. In fact I tohught you had her in one of the saves you sent me. She is unique, so maybe someon else built her befroe you completed her.

YEah, I think Im going to pull Gate to the Abyss in 1.0, it isnt working right.

 

[Furin]

Dear FFH Team,

I found a small issue. Playing the Stompfoot civ I produced a Horseman (the first riding unit). Instead of the picture of the horseman a black exclamation mark (!) is shown beside the city name. I have not seen this before so it might be game specific, but i turned on antialiasing 2 since the last game. Please excuse my incompetence if it has nothing at all to do with that.

kind regards
Furin

 

[Kael]

Dear FFH Team,

I found a small issue. Playing the Stompfoot civ I produced a Horseman (the first riding unit). Instead of the picture of the horseman a black exclamation mark (!) is shown beside the city name. I have not seen this before so it might be game specific, but i turned on antialiasing 2 since the last game. Please excuse my incompetence if it has nothing at all to do with that.

kind regards
Furin

I cant figure out why these show up sometimes and sometimes they don't. I have noticed the same thing. It seems to have something to do with the graphics engine, but I don't know whats causing it.

 

[driftinj]

Hi - it's me again. I just want to provide another anecdote as to why I think the Drown are too powerful, too early. I was playing a game on Prince difficulty where I had pumped up the initial number of civs to about a dozen on a Huge world. 9 of those Civs ended up on the main pangaea-like continent. At about year 150 I was dead last among those 9. The Wood Elves were #1 with twice the score I had and they were among my closest neighbors. I didn't beeline OO but I definitely prioritized it and got it first. I then pumped out 6 Drown and completely took out the wood elves despite their gigantic tech and score advantage over me.

Now, I am a military genius and all but it just seemed far too easy for Prince level.

 

[loki1232]

Hi - it's me again. I just want to provide another anecdote as to why I think the Drown are too powerful, too early. I was playing a game on Prince difficulty where I had pumped up the initial number of civs to about a dozen on a Huge world. 9 of those Civs ended up on the main pangaea-like continent. At about year 150 I was dead last among those 9. The Wood Elves were #1 with twice the score I had and they were among my closest neighbors. I didn't beeline OO but I definitely prioritized it and got it first. I then pumped out 6 Drown and completely took out the wood elves despite their gigantic tech and score advantage over me.

Now, I am a military genius and all but it just seemed far too easy for Prince level.

What if prophets got a large anti-demon bonus to even this out?
In the end drown's are demons, which might be why they are overpowered. (No cool anti demon units yet?)

 

[driftinj]

What if prophets got a large anti-demon bonus to even this out?
In the end drown's are demons, which might be why they are overpowered. (No cool anti demon units yet?)

One idea I have (so that I'm making suggestions and not just criticisms) is that maybe you make them more susceptible to archer units, or at the very least take away the ranged unit promotion available to them. The justification is that drowned folk are kind of slow moving (zombie-like) so aren't so good when attacked from range. This would make the cocurrent archers and elven archers a little more even in strength against them.

 

[Kael]

Hi - it's me again. I just want to provide another anecdote as to why I think the Drown are too powerful, too early. I was playing a game on Prince difficulty where I had pumped up the initial number of civs to about a dozen on a Huge world. 9 of those Civs ended up on the main pangaea-like continent. At about year 150 I was dead last among those 9. The Wood Elves were #1 with twice the score I had and they were among my closest neighbors. I didn't beeline OO but I definitely prioritized it and got it first. I then pumped out 6 Drown and completely took out the wood elves despite their gigantic tech and score advantage over me.

Now, I am a military genius and all but it just seemed far too easy for Prince level.

I will raise their cost form 60 to 90 in 1.0. In 1.0 they will also get the ability to travel through coast tiles so they are becoming even better.

 

[Xuenay]

The problem is that CvInterface appears to be global. So when I switch the focus to the fireball all human players are switches to the fireball. In this patch I disabled the switching if their is more than 1 human player in the game.

Would it be possible to have an option to disable it in normal game as well? I found the automatic switching rather annoying when I had a large stack of units selected and wanted to summon several units at once.

Right now it's:

"Now then, let me first summon some fireballs, then fire elementals and meteor storms... *click* okay it created a fireball but then it switched to it, now I have to manually switch back to my SoD to create that meteor storm, annoying... *click click* so now I have the meteor storm but I'm still lacking the fire elementals... back to the SoD we go... *click click* Ah finally, now I can attack with them all in succession."

As opposed to:

"Now then, let me first summon some fireballs *click* then fire elementals *click* and meteor storms *click*. Ah, here we go. Now move to the attack!"

 

[Xuenay]

One idea I have (so that I'm making suggestions and not just criticisms) is that maybe you make them more susceptible to archer units, or at the very least take away the ranged unit promotion available to them. The justification is that drowned folk are kind of slow moving (zombie-like) so aren't so good when attacked from range. This would make the cocurrent archers and elven archers a little more even in strength against them.

Flavor-wise, that sounds like a pretty neat idea. Would probably also work to well to balance them out - Kael already said he was increasing their cost somewhat, but waiting four turns more to build six Drowned and *then* overrun the foe with them doesn't really feel like _that_ big of a downside - especially if they're getting the ability to move in coastal tiles.

 

[driftinj]

One other thought that means absolutely nothing:

I love the subtle humor of having the Ministry of Funny Walks guy as the icon for the high level movement promotion.

I hate having Chicken Itza as a Wonder.

For me, it's that fine line between subtelty and beat you over the head humor.

As I said, neither here nor there...

(Oh and please don't take my comments too negatively. I absolutely love this mod)