[MOD] Fall from Heaven
- Thread starter Kael
- Start date
Frozen-Vomit
Prince
Or maybe a dwarf worker that can enter mountains to build some special mines etc. ect. when it's codeable that Dwarven Civs can work mountain tiles.
nibenay said:
I've been playing multi-player alot this week using FFH with 3 other people. Haven't had any crashes of any sort yet (related to the game that is heh).
Perhaps 1 person is missing something or needs to clear their temp folders out.
I love this mod. I have an idea about the spirit idea that popped up a while ago. Istead of having a city spirit which is a bit over-powered you could have a national spirit. It could require a building that could be avalible with maybe ancient chants? The spirit could receive a bonus for every city that has the building it requires. Possibly you could put in an upgrade for it that goes with your state religon and gains power from religous buildings. Also to prevent early rushes with it make it only able to move in your national borders. I think this would be a good early anti-barb unit without being over-powered. I don't know if this is possible but it's just an idea that came to me while I was playing
merciary said:
that would be a really... interesting idea, were it workable. i don't know that you can set it so that something can't leave your boundaries. maybe an inverse of the not entering a peoples territory script? "leaving your cultures boundaries will destroy this unit, do you want to continue?" something along those lines? just a thought.
Frozen-Vomit said:
i've gotta admit that this sounds like a really good idea, if anyone can get the scripting for it. this would open up whole other possiblities for the other races with different tiles. have race specific bonuses for a specific tile? like elves get a bonus food or something if for forests? humans get a bonus on grasslands, same for centaurs? again, not knowing how feasible this is it's just off the cuff.
TheNewSaint
Warlord
I havent had time to dl the newest version, but i think i heard somebody say that animals are around till end of game or all the territory is discovered, so...
Animal Ideas!
Have the hunter be able to "catch" animals (not convert like beastmaster) The caught animals would not have to be killed, but once you used the ability with any unit, you would have to wait a certain number of turns to use it again, with any unit. Anyway, the animals are still technically barbarians, but they are carried behind you, i.e. they move to the spot/follow the path of your hunter last turn (movement speed is like 99, so doesnt matter any promotions...). The captured animal can be tamed in a city, or even bred (since there should be a male and female in one unit) and made into an improvement which is like a resource (a preq, if you will) like
"Wolf Cage"-->"Wolf Pen"
The hier you go, the more of the animal you can breed within a certain amount of time, either lowering the shield...hammer cost of the animal unit, or lowering the cooldown time between builds (for... purposes). Once you have three of a any different animal pen types, you can build the beastiary, which makes all animal units built in the city have the "trained" promotion, which allows for more advanced promotions for animals. Other animals are still "tamed" and therefore have access to a few promotions. The preqs for both tamed and trained would have to be the "never gonna happen" tech, so they have to be given.
Now, you may be thinking "Animals aren't that strong, why would I want to build them?" Well the answer lies in a bit of scripting and quite a bit of new artwork (and models). The answer is this: Animal riding! Rather than having units that start riding an animal, you build the animal and the unit, and then in the field you combine them, making one fast, strong unit. Perhaps certain units get bonuses for combining with certain animals, like dwarves and rams go good together, axemen and bears (?), etc., and all units combine well with horses. Now, as you can see, I think that all animals should be units and move around, but some should be pacifists (like horses and cows and sheep and deer and rams, but not bears). I also think that the units could still be counted as mounted, but get the movement of the animal (or higher, cause they're trained). Animals should be able to get speed/movement promotions a lot, becasue that's their use. When combining to units, all promotions should go together. If you wnat to be able to separate the animals and units later, then you would have to say something in the script like:
(Note, this is in human, not python)
"All promotions pertaining to units being combined of unit type animal are to be calssified as "AnimalPro" All others to be classified as "NonAnimalPro"
On unit separation give animalpro to animal and nonanimalpro to nonanimal"
Now, with that down on an electronic database, I'll move on...
To animal ideas!
Red Whelp->Red Drake->Red Dragon or Enraged Lizard
All should be able to breath fire, and the first three can fly (they are land, but move on both land and water and ignore terrain cost) Engraged Lizard is strongest because it is enraged because it's wings were ripped off.
Mustang->Horse->Stalion or Fel Steed
These get faster as they upgrade, and then stalion is for order and dwarven religion and fel steed is for Viel and OO. Fel steed gets both the demonic and animal types, and when combined, becomes a mounted and demonic. They recieve both advanatages and disadvatages. Elves I'm sorry but.. they can get both! Yes the neutral religion! (also the strongest...)
Note: You tame mustangs, the wild horse, and upgrade to the horse.
Just that line of thought... I'm sure someone could branch it out.
Hmm... Oh yes, special stuff!
Vampires should be able to change from vampire to bat, right? And then back again. But they should anly be able to spread lupinidous parisiticous or whatever it is, in vampire form, right? And since bats can fly, wouldn't they be able to move father, and have the same thing as the drown ('cause what are the chances of a bat flying acroos an ocean?). That would be cool.
Werewolves can be killed more easily by units with the "Silver Weapons" promotion, which basically means they are commited to fighting werewolves and vampires, cause silver is rather plyable and therefore less strong and in that sense weaker, but holy and therefore good VS werewolves, vampires and demons (like a demonhunter).
Spells, although I think you have this...
Holylight: Damages demons a lot and heals allied units for same strength of attack (double use).
Death coil: Damages units and give 2/3 of strength lost to caster. Can be used on own units as well.
Swift or Blink: Teleports the caster a short distance, allowing to move over peaks, across rivers (one tile water separation), and maybe just away form combat (I understand that the AI wouldn't do so well with this...)
Waterwalk: allows the caster to move across water for the next two turns (rubberband effect. If movement of caster is 4 or higher, than one turn)
Frost: damages target unit and slows movement by one (rubber band. if movement is 4-6 then two, and 7+ is three)
Burn: damages target and gives the "on fire" promotion, which spreads to all adjacent units within the first turn, then on next turn, before spreading occurs, the burned promotion takes effect and destroys "on fire" promotion, to prevent spreading. Burned promotion lasts three turns and reduces strength by 4 (strength returns upon the leaving of the promotion) Perhaps it could start at 4 and then add 1.5 strength, then 1.5 strength next turn, and then add 1 strength upon leaving. Could be upgraded to add strength, maybe.
Note: Also lights target square on fire, so if there's a forest or improvement (one made of wood, not a fortress) then it goes up in flames. forest fires should have a chance of spreading to adjacent forested tile. Also I think that this would be ok if a random event is having forests grow on unworked tiles. It would balance it if the forests gradually grew, and then every once in a while a large portion is up in flames, which would be bad for elves. HAHA!!!
I did it! I found a way to kill the elven religion! Yes!
Natures Wrath: Can be targeted on either forest or hill (and maybe water). If on forest an ent or treeling is formed and the forest goes away. If on hill then a rock golem or earth elemental appears and the hill goes away (perhaps after a couple of uses. Maybe first and second time it destroys the improvement on it, but never a city) If targeted on water, then water elemental appears, but water stays. Hmm.. what if there is a unit already there? What happens? An immediate fight? Is that possible? Who knows. Oh well...
Beast Summoning
Beastmasters become even better! First off, beast that they convert can also be bred like the captured animals, if you just take the mto your city. But now the real juicy part.
Once you have converted or tamed an animal, it has the promotion "converted" or something. You can use a special ability to "Learn" the animal. The animal that you learn is an exact replica of the one you tamed, after lvling it, promotions and all. You ca nwait, and get a stronger one, or do it early and use the animal sort of like a tank, shield, or even a decoy. Anyway, when the converted animal dies, you have to wait a few turns, and then you can summon it. Guidelines for summoning are as follows:
A summoned unit does not lvl. Beastmasters are limited to having one animal to start, and can gain a promotion that allows for two. They can also learn to shorten the number of turns between summoning, or learn buff spells to use on their beast, such as heal, or spirit link (distributes damage to the beast master and the beast evenly, taking half of any attack strength and giving it to the other. Only one beast can be summoned at once. Beastmasters can also carry birds, but why not other small animals... Beast masters would also get bonuses for riding their animals. A summoned animal stays until it dies, but you must wait x number of turns before revive. Beasts that were summoned can be unsummoned. Summoning a beast reduces strength slightly. If the beast master dies the animals he tamed become barbarian.
That's all I got for now, and if you use just one of my ideas I would be thrilled.
Animal Ideas!
Have the hunter be able to "catch" animals (not convert like beastmaster) The caught animals would not have to be killed, but once you used the ability with any unit, you would have to wait a certain number of turns to use it again, with any unit. Anyway, the animals are still technically barbarians, but they are carried behind you, i.e. they move to the spot/follow the path of your hunter last turn (movement speed is like 99, so doesnt matter any promotions...). The captured animal can be tamed in a city, or even bred (since there should be a male and female in one unit) and made into an improvement which is like a resource (a preq, if you will) like
"Wolf Cage"-->"Wolf Pen"
The hier you go, the more of the animal you can breed within a certain amount of time, either lowering the shield...hammer cost of the animal unit, or lowering the cooldown time between builds (for... purposes). Once you have three of a any different animal pen types, you can build the beastiary, which makes all animal units built in the city have the "trained" promotion, which allows for more advanced promotions for animals. Other animals are still "tamed" and therefore have access to a few promotions. The preqs for both tamed and trained would have to be the "never gonna happen" tech, so they have to be given.
Now, you may be thinking "Animals aren't that strong, why would I want to build them?" Well the answer lies in a bit of scripting and quite a bit of new artwork (and models). The answer is this: Animal riding! Rather than having units that start riding an animal, you build the animal and the unit, and then in the field you combine them, making one fast, strong unit. Perhaps certain units get bonuses for combining with certain animals, like dwarves and rams go good together, axemen and bears (?), etc., and all units combine well with horses. Now, as you can see, I think that all animals should be units and move around, but some should be pacifists (like horses and cows and sheep and deer and rams, but not bears). I also think that the units could still be counted as mounted, but get the movement of the animal (or higher, cause they're trained). Animals should be able to get speed/movement promotions a lot, becasue that's their use. When combining to units, all promotions should go together. If you wnat to be able to separate the animals and units later, then you would have to say something in the script like:
(Note, this is in human, not python)
"All promotions pertaining to units being combined of unit type animal are to be calssified as "AnimalPro" All others to be classified as "NonAnimalPro"
On unit separation give animalpro to animal and nonanimalpro to nonanimal"
Now, with that down on an electronic database, I'll move on...
To animal ideas!
Red Whelp->Red Drake->Red Dragon or Enraged Lizard
All should be able to breath fire, and the first three can fly (they are land, but move on both land and water and ignore terrain cost) Engraged Lizard is strongest because it is enraged because it's wings were ripped off.
Mustang->Horse->Stalion or Fel Steed
These get faster as they upgrade, and then stalion is for order and dwarven religion and fel steed is for Viel and OO. Fel steed gets both the demonic and animal types, and when combined, becomes a mounted and demonic. They recieve both advanatages and disadvatages. Elves I'm sorry but.. they can get both! Yes the neutral religion! (also the strongest...)
Note: You tame mustangs, the wild horse, and upgrade to the horse.
Just that line of thought... I'm sure someone could branch it out.
Hmm... Oh yes, special stuff!
Vampires should be able to change from vampire to bat, right? And then back again. But they should anly be able to spread lupinidous parisiticous or whatever it is, in vampire form, right? And since bats can fly, wouldn't they be able to move father, and have the same thing as the drown ('cause what are the chances of a bat flying acroos an ocean?). That would be cool.
Werewolves can be killed more easily by units with the "Silver Weapons" promotion, which basically means they are commited to fighting werewolves and vampires, cause silver is rather plyable and therefore less strong and in that sense weaker, but holy and therefore good VS werewolves, vampires and demons (like a demonhunter).
Spells, although I think you have this...
Holylight: Damages demons a lot and heals allied units for same strength of attack (double use).
Death coil: Damages units and give 2/3 of strength lost to caster. Can be used on own units as well.
Swift or Blink: Teleports the caster a short distance, allowing to move over peaks, across rivers (one tile water separation), and maybe just away form combat (I understand that the AI wouldn't do so well with this...)
Waterwalk: allows the caster to move across water for the next two turns (rubberband effect. If movement of caster is 4 or higher, than one turn)
Frost: damages target unit and slows movement by one (rubber band. if movement is 4-6 then two, and 7+ is three)
Burn: damages target and gives the "on fire" promotion, which spreads to all adjacent units within the first turn, then on next turn, before spreading occurs, the burned promotion takes effect and destroys "on fire" promotion, to prevent spreading. Burned promotion lasts three turns and reduces strength by 4 (strength returns upon the leaving of the promotion) Perhaps it could start at 4 and then add 1.5 strength, then 1.5 strength next turn, and then add 1 strength upon leaving. Could be upgraded to add strength, maybe.
Note: Also lights target square on fire, so if there's a forest or improvement (one made of wood, not a fortress) then it goes up in flames. forest fires should have a chance of spreading to adjacent forested tile. Also I think that this would be ok if a random event is having forests grow on unworked tiles. It would balance it if the forests gradually grew, and then every once in a while a large portion is up in flames, which would be bad for elves. HAHA!!!
I did it! I found a way to kill the elven religion! Yes!
Natures Wrath: Can be targeted on either forest or hill (and maybe water). If on forest an ent or treeling is formed and the forest goes away. If on hill then a rock golem or earth elemental appears and the hill goes away (perhaps after a couple of uses. Maybe first and second time it destroys the improvement on it, but never a city) If targeted on water, then water elemental appears, but water stays. Hmm.. what if there is a unit already there? What happens? An immediate fight? Is that possible? Who knows. Oh well...
Beast Summoning
Beastmasters become even better! First off, beast that they convert can also be bred like the captured animals, if you just take the mto your city. But now the real juicy part.
Once you have converted or tamed an animal, it has the promotion "converted" or something. You can use a special ability to "Learn" the animal. The animal that you learn is an exact replica of the one you tamed, after lvling it, promotions and all. You ca nwait, and get a stronger one, or do it early and use the animal sort of like a tank, shield, or even a decoy. Anyway, when the converted animal dies, you have to wait a few turns, and then you can summon it. Guidelines for summoning are as follows:
A summoned unit does not lvl. Beastmasters are limited to having one animal to start, and can gain a promotion that allows for two. They can also learn to shorten the number of turns between summoning, or learn buff spells to use on their beast, such as heal, or spirit link (distributes damage to the beast master and the beast evenly, taking half of any attack strength and giving it to the other. Only one beast can be summoned at once. Beastmasters can also carry birds, but why not other small animals... Beast masters would also get bonuses for riding their animals. A summoned animal stays until it dies, but you must wait x number of turns before revive. Beasts that were summoned can be unsummoned. Summoning a beast reduces strength slightly. If the beast master dies the animals he tamed become barbarian.
That's all I got for now, and if you use just one of my ideas I would be thrilled.
As an utter and blithering idiot with this modding business, is it possible for you to upload this wondrous spreadsheet... now? Or, if that's not possible, could you maybe tell me how one goes about using a spreadsheet to modify game data? Really, I'll take any information, since you're something of a modGod around here.Kael said:
Thanks very much.
Kael
Deity
erikg88 said:
I attached a copy of the current editor. At this point it:
1. Creates files in the Fall from Heaven phase 2 format, we have extended schema on most of the objects so these xml files won't be usable with other mods or vanilla civ without some tweaking.
2. So far it only generates the Civilization, LeaderHead, Units, Technologies and Bonus files. More will be added as I move into those sections.
3. This is an extremly alpha version, so I havent done any work on cosmetics.
To use it:
1. Change the data in the C1 field in each spreadsheet. This field controls where the .xml file will be created (it is currently set to the location of that file in the Fall from Heaven 110 directory which won't exist on your computer).
2. Change the data in the spreadsheets.
3. Press Alt+F8 to run a macro. Select the macro for the XML file you want to create and it will create the file in the location you specified.
That's it, its not awfully intuitive yet because its still and early early version but you should be able to get an idea for what we are trying to do. I will dress it up before the final release, provide a "simple" version that only displays fields that people will commonly want to change and an "advanced" version that gives you everything.
My goal is that if someone wants to increase the move rates on ships (for example) they should be able to quickly pop in, make the changes, save it and go back to playing.
Ploeperpengel
academic precarity
Man what a nice idea what I just noticed here!
this editor will certainly help the people creating scenarios out of your mod. So hopefully we can expect a lot pop up in the forum
this editor will certainly help the people creating scenarios out of your mod. So hopefully we can expect a lot pop up in the forum
Frozen-Vomit
Prince
I wonder if this ever happend to anybody: I just started a new game and when i entered a guddy hut i got nothing... 
Is it intentional that some are emty? If so a message that says so would be nice. If a bug:
Is it intentional that some are emty? If so a message that says so would be nice. If a bug:Frozen-Vomit said:I wonder if this ever happend to anybody: I just started a new game and when i entered a guddy hut i got nothing...
Now that you mention it, I've had this happen to me as well. No message or anything, and it seemed to occur when another message was popping up at the same time. Probably just coincidence.
Kael
Deity
TheNewSaint said:
We cosndiered making animals breedable, but historically getting animals to reliably breed in captivity is much more difficult than just providing the cage and some Barry White music. We may be using a similiar mechanic for some monster type creatures. So even through we probably wont allow building of bears and wolves we may allow minotaurs and chimera at some point.
Its funny that you mention animal promotions. I just swtiched werwolves to animals this morning, meaning I have to develop a promotion line for animals now. Which was needed anyway for the captured bears and such.
We are considering a simpliar version of this. Basically some horse type resources that are available in hell and upgrade your mounted units. The concept of a mix and match rider and mount unit would be cool if it could be done simply, but in every way I can think of doing it it would require a ton of programming effort to make happen.
I would love to add units like these if I had the models to do it. Having the dwarven civs mounted units ride bears instead of horses, the elves riding great deer, etc would be awesome. But Im going to need 3d modelers to do it. I know some details like these will be in FfH phase 2, but there is always room for improvement for stuff like this.
In FfH Vampires dont change into bats, they arent killed by stakes, afraid of garlic, or speak with a transalvanian accent. Werewolves cant only be killed by a silver bullet. There is certainly a host of legends that surround these creature types, some are used and some are discarded in FfH. When I originally started using these creatures in the D&D game I tried to think back to what they really were. Vampires are unholy creatures that fuel their eternal life from the blood of living creatures, they fall under the precept of Aeron who is responsible for sins of the flesh.
Werewolves are men overcome with a violent bestial nature, in the most minor form they may appear no different than their human form and in their most dramatic they may appear as magnificant versions of the animals and have no human features. The fall under the precept of Camulos who is responsible for sins of hatred (the Avatar of Wrath is Camulos's avatar), with the werewolves that typically means rage.
I had fun this in my games, the players would hear stories about how holy water or garlic would protect them from a vampire, go into battle armed with the stuff only to find out it didnt bother the vampire at all.
Yeah, we are going through spells now trying to see what we can do. I really want forest fires of some sort in phase 2 (they are currently speced into the 2nd release "Fire"). I should know more abotu what we can and cant do with spells, or more importantly with the AI, in a few weeks.
Some of this idea will come out in the "monster" resources that can be captured and moved to cities (currently speced for "Shadow"). The actual implementation will be more basic than you describe. In general we are trying to add as much detail and flavor as possible while still:
1. Minimizing the amount of programming time spent on tasks that aren't defined as a "killer features". I know making Hell is going to take a lot of work, but I think it will be worth it, other programming intensive tasks had better have a high "drool factor" before they will be considered.
2. Not complicating game play. Although some players love layers of complexity we want everything to stay streamlined and simple for play. We want to avoid decisions that dont have stategic repercussions and take away any activity that requires the player to do something that isnt needed, no matter how flavorful it might be.
3. Staying true to our strategy game genre. I love stealing RPG elements for the mod but I have no desire to make this an RPG. FfH lives and dies as a strategy game.
Anyway, thats my 2 cents. I always love to hear from you TheNewSaint, it's been a while since you've posted. Let me know what you think of this, and keep coming with the ideas!
azzacanth
Warlord
hi,
a few things from when I was playing 95e.
as far as my previous gripe regarding player colors:
frostlings could use a teal color (like tigran has, but tigran is ok)
the undead could use white
minotaur are ok although not perfect
I was trying to trade some reagents away to an AI and they treated them as worthless. I would put the reagents up in my window and ask for a spare food or a lux and the AI demanded 2 resources I had only 1 of AND gpt in addition. What gives?
I was reading about some of the ideas about making cities more specialized toward certain types of units. I was wondering, could you make national buildings which you can have only 3 of, like the units? Or do you have to set a number for the "class" national building? (obviously you don't want 3 forbidden palaces, etc..) But if its possible it could encourage some careful specialization with the unit buildings. (Maybe only the less basic ones)
Edit: I did do a little bit of investigation and it certainly shouldn't be difficult to set default player colors. then again I didn't do a lot of investigation so I will leave that to the modders
a few things from when I was playing 95e.
as far as my previous gripe regarding player colors:
frostlings could use a teal color (like tigran has, but tigran is ok)
the undead could use white
minotaur are ok although not perfect
I was trying to trade some reagents away to an AI and they treated them as worthless. I would put the reagents up in my window and ask for a spare food or a lux and the AI demanded 2 resources I had only 1 of AND gpt in addition. What gives?
I was reading about some of the ideas about making cities more specialized toward certain types of units. I was wondering, could you make national buildings which you can have only 3 of, like the units? Or do you have to set a number for the "class" national building? (obviously you don't want 3 forbidden palaces, etc..) But if its possible it could encourage some careful specialization with the unit buildings. (Maybe only the less basic ones)
Edit: I did do a little bit of investigation and it certainly shouldn't be difficult to set default player colors. then again I didn't do a lot of investigation so I will leave that to the modders
Kael
Deity
azzacanth said:hi,
a few things from when I was playing 95e.
as far as my previous gripe regarding player colors:
frostlings could use a teal color (like tigran has, but tigran is ok)
the undead could use white
minotaur are ok although not perfect
I was trying to trade some reagents away to an AI and they treated them as worthless. I would put the reagents up in my window and ask for a spare food or a lux and the AI demanded 2 resources I had only 1 of AND gpt in addition. What gives?
I was reading about some of the ideas about making cities more specialized toward certain types of units. I was wondering, could you make national buildings which you can have only 3 of, like the units? Or do you have to set a number for the "class" national building? (obviously you don't want 3 forbidden palaces, etc..) But if its possible it could encourage some careful specialization with the unit buildings. (Maybe only the less basic ones)
Edit: I did do a little bit of investigation and it certainly shouldn't be difficult to set default player colors. then again I didn't do a lot of investigation so I will leave that to the modders
It is certainly possible to set a limited amount of any building, including the national unit "t4" unit buildings. The reason this wasnt done is that we didn't want to create a situation where the AI handicapped itself by building them all in one area and left itself using old units in another. This was particuarly dangerous on island and continent maps. Human players are smart enough to save one of their buildings for colony areas, but I would need to do some ai work to get the ai to do the same. Not impossible by any means, but it didn't seem worth the effect at the time.
I checked out reagents, the AI weight on them is there, whoever you were trading with was just trying to rip you off.
azzacanth
Warlord
Also, is there any reason that my two long time allies with whom I had defensive pacts and have never had any hard feelings at all for any reason besides close borders, would suddenly both declare war on me in the space of 10 turns? (I was at war with another AI and was certainly able to soundly destroy him) I could have fought one of them but it wasn't going to be enjoyable, when the other declared I just quit that game. I dont want to fight my allies
Kael
Deity
azzacanth said:Also, is there any reason that my two long time allies with whom I had defensive pacts and have never had any hard feelings at all for any reason besides close borders, would suddenly both declare war on me in the space of 10 turns? (I was at war with another AI and was certainly able to soundly destroy him) I could have fought one of them but it wasn't going to be enjoyable, when the other declared I just quit that game. I dont want to fight my allies
Yeah, they are evil bastards who senced blood in the water and a chance to knock you out of the game.
naf4ever
Dread Lord
nibenay said:
Its related to the ntdll.dll file in windows that gets corrupted ridiculously easy and appears to have problems with certain mods that use lots of python. The ntdll.dll file related to internet connectivity i think which is why it only gives you a problem in multiplayer and not single. I fixed it by doing a repair install on windows,,, though i think there is an easier work around. This was posted a while back on this thread:
DMN said:
Sounds like he just cleared some stuff out with his customAssets folder. Try that out and see if it works. -Naf
Maarak
Chieftain
Maarak said:
My post seems to have gotten lost in the shuffle.
[edited for spelling]
darkedone02
The Suggestor
I think that we need more custom music into this game, i suggest at least add more songs for each religion and give some songs if we are not yet in a religion (in other words, add music in no state religion). I also like to see more custom buildings to see, I'm suggest that you give every race a unique looking town and farm, instead of getting a religion to transform it to that type
