[mod] Warlords: Total Realism 2.3a

[Walter Hawkwood]

monarch diff, terra map, Turks.


warning for each tech that brings you in another era can be usefull to warn about the +1unhappy.

Benito Juarez Aztec showed some weird behaviour moving units to and away again against my cities while at war. He could have captured one city easy if he didnt move away so many times.

Fishing boats and barbarian galleys show only shadows while playing in Win xp, using vista however doesnt show this effect.

Every now and then the bronze smith has shortages same as with distilleries. Often i get "cant continue to build so and so unit" this also goes for units that dont need bronze.

As far as i know inquisitors were only a christian invention?

Ai vs Ai wars lasts for centuries, literally(shivaji Bhonsle vs Frederick). One civ is down to one city but still at war with a major civ.
I can offer gold to stop the war but never did just to see how long it would last. It isnt the only war in my game that last for centuries. The wars pretty much start when the religions are founded.

explorer is weak vs new world units. Barbarians have longbowmen brigands etc by the time i arrived.
I need fusiliers to do the job. The explorer wouldnt last very long since the barbarian hunt you down This makes the explorer useless.

Whats the point in building irregulars vs fusiliers. The last are cheaper and are stronger. Irregulars are drafted that is the only function for Irr. ingame? Since you can upgrade to Fusiliers at 0 cost. Seems a bit odd to first draft then upgrade.

At one time i got no cash from pillaging a barbarian mine.

Ai seems to ignore crowdedness(too many units in cities), dont know the behaviour in war time however.

Is there still tech transfer possible if you have no open borders with anybody?

I can confirm that coming back from an impossible position is quiet possible. I was last in line now i am first with 1/3 of gametime still to go. i didnt resort to war to get me there, only defensive, although i took some cities. Without tech transfer i would have been screwed, that and same religion buddies.
Founding a religion early is such a great boost. The holy wonders give lots of very usefull income and culture. They seem to have a much stronger effect in TR. money = research.

- I agree that it would be useful to have tooltips on the techs that will advance you to the next era, but unfortunately it is quite difficult to code. Still, we'll think of something.

- AI sometimes leaves a lot more to be desired, that's true. We are gradually improving, but not everything is well all the time.

- That's very strange about fishing boats and galleys; never encountered that.

- "Can't continue to build" stuff is false alarm, you usually can continue the production you had right after you get the message. It is annoying, though, and we are working to get it fixed.

- Sure, inquisitors are christian invention, but we leave every religion an opportunity to behave like an ass to others.

- We're working on AI recognizing and discontinuing pointless wars. This is high on our agenda. AIs will accept vassalization under dire conditions, though, when this option is available.

- Explorers... Well, you have a point, unfortunately. We'll probably increase their strength vs melee and archery units.

- Irregulars require no resources. So if you have no sulfur, you're left with them. Might lower their cost a bit in future, though.

- AI is aware of overcrowding, but sometimes resorts to it if it's determined to build and stack A LOT more units.

- Tech transfer only happens with open borders (or permanent allies)

 

[Freakwave]

Just doing my bit, although the MAF error isnt there when i play in vista (used the fixed as posted on civfanatics) its alot slower even with 2GB. Im playing on huge map though.

So far only Mansa musa and i are interested in the new world. I have to say landing a couple of units isnt nessesarily enough. Mansa and I both lost a city due to the barb response, which is good but not if the ai lands too few units, that is a settler and two longbowmen for example (one cargo from a merchantmen) they will get whacked, as i got wacked with just that. You need lots more city defenders initiallly to establish a foothold in the new world. Or go after the barb cities which might even be better since they are more developed and keep some buildings after conquest, not to say hamper their response.

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

Just doing my bit, although the MAF error isnt there when i play in vista (used the fixed as posted on civfanatics) its alot slower even with 2GB. Im playing on huge map though.

So far only Mansa musa and i are interested in the new world. I have to say landing a couple of units isnt nessesarily enough. Mansa and I both lost a city due to the barb response, which is good but not if the ai lands too few units, that is a settler and two longbowmen for example (one cargo from a merchantmen) they will get whacked, as i got wacked with just that. You need lots more city defenders initiallly to establish a foothold in the new world. Or go after the barb cities which might even be better since they are more developed and keep some buildings after conquest, not to say hamper their response.

They say, BtS has a lot better naval invasion AI. After we convert, AI should handle this kind of "invasions" better.

 

[Freakwave]

Hey, alas i am crashing at the start of the next turn. I looked in the WB, only odd thing i noticed is that Ali Pasha is building 2 ironworks at the same time.

 

[greendevil]

Yes. They get Woodsman II to get double moves in the forests. You can still buy them Woodsman I, if you feel like doing so.



If you have a savegame with a reproducible crash (like, always a CTD at the end of the turn, or, even better, a CTD after a certain action by the player), by all means attach it and we'll have a look at it. Otherwise it is almost impossible to diagnose and fix.

Here it is

 

[timberwoolf]

It seems that the AI still trying too build huge armies.
My rivals in emperor difficulty had about 1.3m soldiers strength, with a popoluation of 3 million....All his energy wasted on units, and these gives me the possibility to survive....

With some buildings, I get- with forget the name( good wood) it could be build faster.....But I have these resourse, and still don't get the bonus!

By the way, usually, I can still build all buildings, due to the very slow technological headway.

 

[xbeanerx]

It seems that the AI still trying too build huge armies.
My rivals in emperor difficulty had about 1.3m soldiers strength, with a popoluation of 3 million....All his energy wasted on units, and these gives me the possibility to survive....

With some buildings, I get- with forget the name( good wood) it could be build faster.....But I have these resourse, and still don't get the bonus!

By the way, usually, I can still build all buildings, due to the very slow technological headway.

What is wrong with the huge armies i like it that way..... more to kill!!
I am fighting 2 super powers every time i ask some one to join me in the war effort they say"We Are Afraid of their Military Power" I launched Operation Enduring freedom since i am the Americans next game i play i will be the Fuhrer"adolf hitler" and i will declare War on all europe and the World!! starting with france and russia!!!

 

[EnlightenmentHK]

The problem with the huge armies is that once you get into the mid stages of the game and later, most of those units are obsolete, easy to kill, and amount to little more than free XP. But they also cost money in upkeep and that inevitably drags the AI back in research. I'm playing on monarch, a few techs away from railroad, and I've still got high ranked AI's who are researching the Alphabet. Tech trading might be short on the realism, but its possible that it could remedy these late game problems. (either that or I need to move up to emperor.)

The AI is also too defensively minded. I saw a GARGANTUAN stack. (so much so that they still have the lil red 'too crowded' X's after two rounds of a full 15 stack of Curraisaurs (sp) destroying them). They would have suffered some casualities, but I was marauding with only horse troops (no defensive bonuses) They could have wiped out my stack, taken back that city of theirs I took (I destroyed the rest. I don't like occupying northern Asia past Moscow, leave it to the barbs), but they decided to stay meekly in place, not even in a city, and let me bludgeon them for 2 rounds, going on 3.

I know these aren't necessarily TR issues. This is a general AI problem, something just about every modern video game ever invented is plagued with.


In either case, I think I'm ready for some less predictable, more skilled human competition. How does TR fair with multiplayer? (is it possible? Is it unstable? Etc?)

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

In either case, I think I'm ready for some less predictable, more skilled human competition. How does TR fair with multiplayer? (is it possible? Is it unstable? Etc?)

We've done everything to ensure that TR is MP compatible. Unfortunately, we have had little opportunity to test it - but by and large, there are no real reasons MP shouldn't work.

 

[timberwoolf]

The huge armies are number one destroyers of strategy and tactics, what's the reason why I hate it.

 

[xbeanerx]

The problem with the huge armies is that once you get into the mid stages of the game and later, most of those units are obsolete, easy to kill, and amount to little more than free XP. But they also cost money in upkeep and that inevitably drags the AI back in research. I'm playing on monarch, a few techs away from railroad, and I've still got high ranked AI's who are researching the Alphabet. Tech trading might be short on the realism, but its possible that it could remedy these late game problems. (either that or I need to move up to emperor.)

The AI is also too defensively minded. I saw a GARGANTUAN stack. (so much so that they still have the lil red 'too crowded' X's after two rounds of a full 15 stack of Curraisaurs (sp) destroying them). They would have suffered some casualities, but I was marauding with only horse troops (no defensive bonuses) They could have wiped out my stack, taken back that city of theirs I took (I destroyed the rest. I don't like occupying northern Asia past Moscow, leave it to the barbs), but they decided to stay meekly in place, not even in a city, and let me bludgeon them for 2 rounds, going on 3.

I know these aren't necessarily TR issues. This is a general AI problem, something just about every modern video game ever invented is plagued with.


In either case, I think I'm ready for some less predictable, more skilled human competition. How does TR fair with multiplayer? (is it possible? Is it unstable? Etc?)

Dude i am playing with tech trade and i am neck and neck with 4 civs and some are advance on military techs so no problem here it is better when all civs are in a race of better weapons and tech!!
I am trying to split the Atom and when i do i will drop it on any Motherf*cker that gets in my way!!!!

 

[EnlightenmentHK]

Dude i am playing with tech trade and i am neck and neck with 4 civs and some are advance on military techs so no problem here it is better when all civs are in a race of better weapons and tech!!
I am trying to split the Atom and when i do i will drop it on any Motherf*cker that gets in my way!!!!

Hmmm...I thought the tech trading stayed off even if you activated it. At least I recall that being the case with earlier versions. Hmmm, guess I'll try that.

On the large armies thing. Apparently Gandhi isn't as stupid as Mehmed. (and the SoB attacked me while nearly the entirety of my forces were occupied up north) While I was playing a holding motion before I can bring in reinforcements, he suffered about a gagillion casualties, but ended up wiping out my stack of front line defenders. (which including one of my favorite units, a kindly Fusilier promoted to hell and back, one of my first two start units back from 4,000 BC) It was all I could do not to reload it and keep him out of harms way. I hate losing super-units. (that guy would be a beast as an IFV)

But he served his purpose, absorbed the brunt of the attack. Now that little warmonger Gandhi is ripe for the taking...and my veterans are coming back from the north. Justice shall be swift and merciless.

 

[Snake Pliskeen]

Hmmm...I thought the tech trading stayed off even if you activated it. At least I recall that being the case with earlier versions. Hmmm, guess I'll try that.

On the large armies thing. Apparently Gandhi isn't as stupid as Mehmed. (and the SoB attacked me while nearly the entirety of my forces were occupied up north) While I was playing a holding motion before I can bring in reinforcements, he suffered about a gagillion casualties, but ended up wiping out my stack of front line defenders. (which including one of my favorite units, a kindly Fusilier promoted to hell and back, one of my first two start units back from 4,000 BC) It was all I could do not to reload it and keep him out of harms way. I hate losing super-units. (that guy would be a beast as an IFV)

But he served his purpose, absorbed the brunt of the attack. Now that little warmonger Gandhi is ripe for the taking...and my veterans are coming back from the north. Justice shall be swift and merciless.

I suppose you're playing as Persia. Usually when I play as Persia as soon as I can build Immortals I conquer Arabs and Egyptian and then India, these Civs are annoying if you wait too long because they are faster in research. Then I go for Turks, always back in developement and research. Take some barbarian cities (Assiria, Babylon, Samarkand, etc.) and you will be the leader till the end.

 

[Propunk]

TR team

Not only does the game CTDs at times, but my pc also crashes along. The message is (translated from Portuguese): "Windows has been turned off to avoid damage to the system." What should I do?

Guys, I still haven't gotten an answer. I'm not accusing you of anything.

 

[xbeanerx]

I always give speeches to my troops before i send them to battle or before declaring war on all dictators I say to them"We Are the Rightious Hammer of GOD We Are a weapon a minister of Death Praying for War they are NOT even Human..F*ckn beings" Kill Them All Let God Sort them Out!!

 

[DrunkenPirate]

I downloaded 2.3 this morning, do I still need the DLL fix or is that incorporated into the full client now?

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

TR team

Not only does the game CTDs at times, but my pc also crashes along. The message is (translated from Portuguese): "Windows has been turned off to avoid damage to the system." What should I do?

No idea on this one, sorry. Try reinstalling everything - this may help. But since I've never seen anything like that, I can't offer you any real solutions.

I downloaded 2.3 this morning, do I still need the DLL fix or is that incorporated into the full client now?

Yes, you should still apply dll fix. The message that it is needed will be removed as soon as it no longer is.

 

[Freakwave]

To come back on my ctd. I assigned other buildings to the ones giving problems before, the "we cant continue to build" thing. Jewellers and Ottoman cannons in this case. To no avail. The game crashes on entering my civs new turn after a barbarian attack on my troops. So it doesnt seem to be caused by other civs.

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

To come back on my ctd. I assigned other buildings to the ones giving problems before, the "we cant continue to build" thing. Jewellers and Ottoman cannons in this case. To no avail. The game crashes on entering my civs new turn after a barbarian attack on my troops. So it doesnt seem to be caused by other civs.

Your CTD has been sent to our coder for investigation and fixing. He'll handle it from here, hopefully.

 

[Hian the Frog]

Guys,

About huge armies: we already know the problem. AI is very prone to build huge armies.
We are trying to build a component that can limit the size of all armies (player included). Note that it is still a "paper idea". It won't be done in next days ! If we succed in building such a component, it will have to be tested (to be sure it will not unbalance or create problems).

All in all, be sure of one thing: we know this problem, we are also annoyed by the stupidity of the AI (sometimes).

Hian the Frog.