Modding and Firaxis

[Shiggs713]

nice find, I didn't see that yet. Pretty much exactly what I already said in another thread about the creation of LH's.

 

[cephalo]

Modding by it's non-commercial nature tends to walk all over copyright laws. If someone makes a Star Wars mod, can Firaxis host it?

Those fancy leaderheads sound great... as long as you're not a modder lol. We are going to need a low tech alternative diplomacy screen for modding!

 

[Afforess]

I'm now very optimisitic about Civ5 modding. Sounds like they are giving us best of both worlds. All the SDK and XML, but some tools for the non-programmers. Win-Win for me.

 

[tom2050]

From what it sounds like, you can make a map; and modifying textures is possible...
but adding new units will be a tricky pain in the a**.

What unprecedented modding tools are they talking about. The map maker is the only thing. It's not a tool when you do it yourself via XML and DLL's.

Unlimited options for modifying Civ 5 any way you want? I guess that excludes most everything for most people except for map making.

I'm sure it's all possible, but sounds like another sales pitch that doesn't stand up to reality.

Tom

 

[Shiggs713]

maybe not a "tool" but more a "key" to enable us to do whatever we want to the game. The worldbuilder sounds improved, we still have our XML and SDK, I'm happy.

 

[Dale]

I'm now very optimisitic about Civ5 modding. Sounds like they are giving us best of both worlds. All the SDK and XML, but some tools for the non-programmers. Win-Win for me.

What was it you said? The modding tools will completely lock off access to the SDK!

Sounds like a win-win for me.

 

[tom2050]

Keys are different than tools. XML and DLL's are not unprecedented Civ 5 specific modding tools. It's a lose-lose for people that don't have XML, programming abilities, advanced 3d modeling programs, and abilities to create textures. Can I do these, sure; to an extent... but their statements don't add up so far.

With unprecedented modding tools, players will have unlimited options for modifying Civ V any way they like

From the last interview, this sentence is a vast stretch of truth from reality.

Eurogamer: will people have access to other aspects of the game? Like the leaders?
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Jon Shafer: [Blank look.]

Eurogamer: You've talked about the modding tools you're giving away - what will people be able to do now that they couldn't do before?
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Jon Shafer: The main thing is, in terms of the creation of maps we wanted to make that a lot easier.

Completely side-stepped the question. Map creation is not something that could not be done before. So in other words, either he didn't know, or there is no major difference from Civ 4.

Jon Shafer: We're going to have a utility that packages up the mods you make, too.

It's great they .rar it up for you.

Eurogamer: I guess what I'm asking is, will I be able to make a sitcom where Gandhi lives with Washington?
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Jon Shafer: We're still finalising the plans about what we'll be releasing.

Side-stepped the question... will take that as a NO. Or no one knows.

But the art stuff is a little tricky, because of the complexity of what goes on there.

Art stuff is a little tricky and complex to him... so it's a complete pain in a** to everyone else. TOOLS make things less complicated... NO TOOLS HERE!

Dennis Shirk: People will be able to retexture the leaders, because that kind of thing is a lot easier, but when it comes to creating new animations, that's a little trickier.

So you can retexture leaders and that's it.

Eurogamer: I'll take that as a no.

Eurogamer gets props... they take it as a no.. and they do not reply 'the answer is indeed Yes'.

Modding tools are pure sales pitch... nothing new or different over Civ 3 and Civ 4 for tools themselves.

At least be honest when using that as a sales point. And why the hell is everyone excited about the answers from this interview... Almost every question was Side-Stepped and not answered, or given a NO.

Tom

 

[Shiggs713]

well probably so, they always say some rubbish like that to excite people.

 

[Abremms]

No penis units in Civ5 .

in the eurogamer interview, Shafer said players will still be able to mod the game outside the central modding system. thier system is just a convenience.

so you can still get Wang Troopers, you'll just have to get them elsewhere

 

[Afforess]

The issue with leaders is not surprising. It was years after Civ4 vanilla came out before new leaderheads appeared.

 

[r_rolo1]

maybe not a "tool" but more a "key" to enable us to do whatever we want to the game. The worldbuilder sounds improved, we still have our XML and SDK, I'm happy.

Well, given that most of the things you can do with Civ IV worldbuilder files are more aptly done in notepad than in Worldbuilder ( when they are doable in Worldbuilder at all ... never understood the lack of some features there, like a decent Projects ( stuff like Manhattan, Internet and all the SS parts ) handling ), making a better worldbuilder would be the minimum they could had done

I sincerily hope they keep something similar to Civ IV python files though ... Compiling DLL files takes precious time

 

[Dale]

At least be honest when using that as a sales point. And why the hell is everyone excited about the answers from this interview... Almost every question was Side-Stepped and not answered, or given a NO.

Tom

One thing you should keep in mind is that this interview was done early Jan (note early on they talk of Irrational Games getting its name back as breaking news, which was Jan 8th). A lot can happen in two months. Note there is a dedicated programmer to World Builder, which from the interview was already in a state of completion (Dennis's son was making working maps already).

So if that was 2 months ago, and what the dedicated mod tool resource was working on is basically finished, what's he working on now?

To me the question of modding tools is still very much up in the air.

 

[The_J]

It's a lose-lose for people that don't have XML,

Everybody can learn XML .

advanced 3d modeling programs

Any idea, how you could do a model for a game with a 3D engine without a 3D modeling program?

It's great they .rar it up for you.

And they install it for the user.
Look around, how many user ask, how to install a mod, which is a .rar file.
Some even can't unpack it.

Side-stepped the question... will take that as a NO. Or no one knows.

Well, looking at the question, i would have said "no".
Would not be possible to transform Civ4 into a sitcom, i would assume the same for Civ5. The question was to unprecise.

Art stuff is a little tricky and complex to him... so it's a complete pain in a** to everyone else. TOOLS make things less complicated... NO TOOLS HERE!

I guess, you've never tried to create a custom animation. It's tricky, because it's really tricky, that's the point.

 

[tom2050]

Everybody can learn XML .

Any idea, how you could do a model for a game with a 3D engine without a 3D modeling program?

And they install it for the user.
Look around, how many user ask, how to install a mod, which is a .rar file.
Some even can't unpack it.

Well, looking at the question, i would have said "no".
Would not be possible to transform Civ4 into a sitcom, i would assume the same for Civ5. The question was to unprecise.

I guess, you've never tried to create a custom animation. It's tricky, because it's really tricky, that's the point.

Apparently the whole point went directly over your head... I have created custom animations, not many, but I have done so... I believe he was referring to implementing them into the game though.

Firaxsis states that they have unprecedented modding tools. The only tool is a map creator, which is nothing new... that is it, nothing unprecedented about that. The rest were either NO, or side-stepping the questions and not even giving an explanation, which usually also means NO, not likely, no plans for it, or undecided.

From that little chat, the answer is, Civ 5 will not have unprecedented modding tools, but can be modded if you have a lot of time, money, and can solve the maze of extreme complexity and programming.

3d Modeling programs are expensive, many people cannot afford them. They are not the easiest thing to learn for a vast majority whose skills are in other areas besides computers and graphics, XML and programming DLL files are similar, those who do not know how to code will not be able to do so. These are not tools, they are skills that not everyone possesses.

Firaxsis' sales pitch of tools is just not true. Sweet little lies from our friends.

Tom

 

[Dale]

Firaxsis' sales pitch of tools is just not true. Sweet little lies from our friends.

Tom

Yet to be proven either way.

 

[Afforess]

Yet to be proven either way.

I'm with Dale on this one, it's far too early to call now. Wait 4 months, and we may have a better answer...

 

[PieceOfMind]

Indeed, the proof is in the product.

 

[Chazcon]

...One of my personal problems with my mod is that I don't think many people realize it's there...

Phungus, put a link to your mod in your sig ferchrissake!

 

[LDiCesare]

Any idea, how you could do a model for a game with a 3D engine without a 3D modeling program?

DragonAge gives you a dedicated program that allows edition of your character 3d model (well, only his/her face and neck actually), so something like that could be included. It isn't really modeling as it's more tweaking existing models, but it would probably be good enough for most leaderheads.
Animations, though, are another problem entirely, as you can't have a WYSIWYG animation editor. I can see the average joe designing a new model out of an existing basis, but I can't think of a gui that would allow to make skeletal animation easy to grasp to a majority of people.

 

[Chalks]

I'm with Dale on this one, it's far too early to call now. Wait 4 months, and we may have a better answer...

The statement that the tools will allow for "unlimited customisation in every single way" is obvious hyperbole.

However, tom's stating of this fact is neither insightful nor clever.

The modding tools may well be everything that we could ask them to be, but they probably won't be able to customise the game into half-life 2, rendering them far from "unlimited".

The argument that a marketing pitch that uses the word "unlimited" contains exaggeration is tedious.