[Modmodmod] RFC:Europe Extra Civs

[Morholt]

Playing as the Serbians again, I noticed all my cities have 7 commerce on their tile, is it intended? I thought it was their UP but it doesn't seem so.

Thanks for the report, found the bug, will be fixed for next version. I'll add some bonus to their starting area to compensate partially.

I won at 13xx, was tech leader, researched divine rights-chemistry, founded Hanseastic League, had Rum and Byz as vassal, and the Ottomans didn't trouble at all.

Wow, that's way earlier than I intended. Will nerf Egypt. Did you build the wonders yourself or capture them?

 

[Buddhafish]

Just finishing a game as the Serbians. Right now its about 1470. First UHV might be bugged. I got it on the second turn with only +16 stability. I then proceded to conquer Durazzo and Curfo, then Sorun(can't remember the Byzantine name) and Athenai by 1250. I still have not declared a state religion or built a religious building. All I did was build military units to complete the 3rd UHV. Good strategy, so when the Byzantines started getting their butts kicked, they offered to be my vassal and I took my 70 man army into Turkey. No more Ottomans. (To keep stability, I burned everything I couldn't give back to the Byzantines)

A couple more interesting tidbits about my game. Arabia collapsed, and now the Mamluks control from Antioch to just South of Tunis. Poland collapsed, and Prussia has expanded from Berlin to St. Petersburg (is that normal?) Kiev collapsed (is the game scripted to do that, because they have never lived to see 1000 in any of my games, ++ or vanilla) and I read that Bulgaria was powerful. In my game they were a pushover, and I could've wiped them, Byzantium, and the Ottomans out if I wanted to.

All in all, excellent mod. I've found that Eastern Europe had been undercivilized in the vanilla RFCE(less civs). Only other bug I have found is that the Ottomans aren't listed in the Civilopedia.

 

[youtien]

The Moroccans is fun and challenging. Their UP is powerful but not overpowered. Conquering Cordoba is not hard, and you have to remember taking north Africa. The indy cities seems always razed by barb Banu Hilal camel archers, so we just have to get 3-4 settlers and 2 polearms for each cities.

 

[Morholt]

Just finishing a game as the Serbians. Right now its about 1470. First UHV might be bugged. I got it on the second turn with only +16 stability. I then proceded to conquer Durazzo and Curfo, then Sorun(can't remember the Byzantine name) and Athenai by 1250. I still have not declared a state religion or built a religious building. All I did was build military units to complete the 3rd UHV. Good strategy, so when the Byzantines started getting their butts kicked, they offered to be my vassal and I took my 70 man army into Turkey. No more Ottomans. (To keep stability, I burned everything I couldn't give back to the Byzantines)

Interesting, I'll have to fix the UHV. EDIT: Seems it might have been caused by the stability boost when flipping cities plus extra stability from Serbia's insane (bugged) commerce. I changed the UHV to get 20 stability sometime between 1219 and 1354 and since the commerce bug is fixed this should be the end of this bug.

A couple more interesting tidbits about my game. Arabia collapsed, and now the Mamluks control from Antioch to just South of Tunis. Poland collapsed, and Prussia has expanded from Berlin to St. Petersburg (is that normal?) Kiev collapsed (is the game scripted to do that, because they have never lived to see 1000 in any of my games, ++ or vanilla) and I read that Bulgaria was powerful. In my game they were a pushover, and I could've wiped them, Byzantium, and the Ottomans out if I wanted to.

The Egyptians are pretty much supposed to take over the Arabs from 13th century on. I've never seen Prussia expand that much, sometimes they conquer Lithuania though. Kiev tends to collapse around 1250 because of the Mongol invasions.

All in all, excellent mod. I've found that Eastern Europe had been undercivilized in the vanilla RFCE(less civs). Only other bug I have found is that the Ottomans aren't listed in the Civilopedia.

Fixed the civilopedia bug, thanks!

The Moroccans is fun and challenging. Their UP is powerful but not overpowered. Conquering Cordoba is not hard, and you have to remember taking north Africa. The indy cities seems always razed by barb Banu Hilal camel archers, so we just have to get 3-4 settlers and 2 polearms for each cities.

Cool! Might have to tone down Banu Hilal's city attack, or increase the garrisons of some cities.

 

[Opera]

Still playing my Serbia game and I failed the army UHV because of the plague hitting me hard I founded protestantism thanks to their bugged commerce though. Out of curiosity, what was the bug?

I noticed two unions as of now: England+Scotland (England dominant) and Austria+Hungary... with Hungary dominant! Pretty cool. It's around 1610 and Aragon and the Cordobans are still kicking, although Portugal is dead. The Franks have been killed too and their territory is split between indies (brittany), Burgundy (rhone), England (north including Paris), Spain (some city in the center) and... Hungary? Tolosa and Bordeaux. Hungary also has Jerusalem and another city near it. They're pretty powerful.

 

[Morholt]

Out of curiosity, what was the bug?

Warning: some computer talk.

All data about the UP's are stored in a single array. Every civ has one parameter for every up, with -1 meaning that the civ does not have that UP. The position of the parameter for UP A for civ B is [B*NUM_UNIQUE_POWERS + A].

Now you might see the problem. NUM_UNIQUE_POWERS is defined as 30 (because I didn't think to update it). Aragon, which comes before Serbia in the civ list, has the ProvinceCommerce UP, which has the ID 32. But since the number of UP's are defined as only 30, assigning UP 32 to Aragon actually assigns UP 2 to Serbia. UP 2 happens to be the city tile yield UP that Kiev gets, only because the parameter is different Serbia got 6 commerce instead of 2 food.

 

[Opera]

Tricky

 

[Buddhafish]

Another Union which I read was uncommon was France and Burgundy, but that happened. Also saw Spain and Aragorn mix. I really like the concept, adds good historical value. Just sucks for the rest of the world as we get left behind in points. I went from 2nd to 4th because of those two unions. It's all cool though.

For plague help visit my thread entitled How to Avoid the Plague under the regular RFC Forum.

 

[AbsintheRed]

I noticed two unions as of now: England+Scotland (England dominant) and Austria+Hungary... with Hungary dominant! Pretty cool. It's around 1610 and Aragon and the Cordobans are still kicking, although Portugal is dead. The Franks have been killed too and their territory is split between indies (brittany), Burgundy (rhone), England (north including Paris), Spain (some city in the center) and... Hungary? Tolosa and Bordeaux. Hungary also has Jerusalem and another city near it. They're pretty powerful.

Sounds perfect

 

[rigo92]

Maybe we should be able to choose which cities we want to keep upon joining, cuz the AI sucks at choosing good city spots, and there's no way to get rid of bad cities. Could be like when you culture flip a city that you can decide to keep it or disband it.

 

[civ_king]

Warning: some computer talk.

All data about the UP's are stored in a single array. Every civ has one parameter for every up, with -1 meaning that the civ does not have that UP. The position of the parameter for UP A for civ B is [B*NUM_UNIQUE_POWERS + A].

Now you might see the problem. NUM_UNIQUE_POWERS is defined as 30 (because I didn't think to update it). Aragon, which comes before Serbia in the civ list, has the ProvinceCommerce UP, which has the ID 32. But since the number of UP's are defined as only 30, assigning UP 32 to Aragon actually assigns UP 2 to Serbia. UP 2 happens to be the city tile yield UP that Kiev gets, only because the parameter is different Serbia got 6 commerce instead of 2 food.

So basically you had a buffer overflow.

 

[youtien]

Doing Prussia now. I conquered Gdansk(Danzig) as capital, built Heroic Epic at Poznan(Posen). UHV #1 was easy due to dumb AI -- Germany had 20 units crammed in one city but didn't move them at all, making my conquest very easy. #2 is a bit hard and boring, now it is 1598 and I got only 10 in each cities, because I got many cities. #3 is already done.

 

[youtien]

In my Prussia game, I conquered Groniegen, Munster and founded Amsterdam for AA. in 1580, the Dutch flipped those 3 cities, but they seems have no land units spawned, so I just have to leave all troops before flip and take back in 1-2 turn.

 

[Morholt]

Maybe we should be able to choose which cities we want to keep upon joining, cuz the AI sucks at choosing good city spots, and there's no way to get rid of bad cities. Could be like when you culture flip a city that you can decide to keep it or disband it.

Hmm.. that is an idea.

So basically you had a buffer overflow.

Not quite, a buffer overflow would have caused a CTD so it would have been easy to find. This was more of an internal overwrite if you will .

In my Prussia game, I conquered Groniegen, Munster and founded Amsterdam for AA. in 1580, the Dutch flipped those 3 cities, but they seems have no land units spawned, so I just have to leave all troops before flip and take back in 1-2 turn.

Interesting, I'll look into it. Also I'll try to find a way to make Prussia more interesting/challenging.

 

[AdrienIer]

Is there any particular civ that would need tests ? I'm downloading the modmodmod right now.

 

[Morholt]

Rum and Scotland, also the union system could use a bit of feedback - Spain, Poland, and Austria all get fairly easy unions (Spain ~1480 and ~1580, Poland ~1385, ~1500 and ~1569, Austria ~1560) try to form them and see if it makes you too unstable or the UHVs too easy.

 

[rrosen]

Played a game with Crimea. It was fun! The first goal (raze Moscow) was rather challenging, but the other two were easy. I would suggest requiring razing the cities before a certain date rather than any time. Perhaps not that far after the Moscow goal? The five cities only condition can be checked at the same time.

 

[rrosen]

In my Crimean game, Ottomans were going along fine as either the first or second in score. The union with the Barbary coast made them collapse immediately though. Would it be a good idea to add a stability boost to the country that have formed a union?

 

[Morholt]

Played a game with Crimea. It was fun! The first goal (raze Moscow) was rather challenging, but the other two were easy. I would suggest requiring razing the cities before a certain date rather than any time. Perhaps not that far after the Moscow goal? The five cities only condition can be checked at the same time.

In my Crimean game, Ottomans were going along fine as either the first or second in score. The union with the Barbary coast made them collapse immediately though. Would it be a good idea to add a stability boost to the country that have formed a union?

Thanks for your feedback.
I'm still trying to find the right stability balance for unions. I'll probably either add a permanent stability gain per city flipped, or improve the stability map of the leading civ. Also I plan to make it so that when a united civ would have collapsed from instability, instead the union is dissolved as a first step.

 

[AdrienIer]

Rum and Scotland, also the union system could use a bit of feedback - Spain, Poland, and Austria all get fairly easy unions (Spain ~1480 and ~1580, Poland ~1385, ~1500 and ~1569, Austria ~1560) try to form them and see if it makes you too unstable or the UHVs too easy.

Ok. I've tried Aragon to see if the mod worked, but it crashed after some time (my game often does, it's not a bug of RFCE++). The 2nd settler on the starting spot seemed useless, although it might be useful later.
I'll try Scotland now.