[Modmodmod] RFC:Europe Extra Civs

[dragodon64]

Currently (all dates are approximate and semi-random):
Union of Krewo (Poland-Lithuania) 1386
Castille-Aragon 1478
Union of Mielnik (Poland-Lithuania) 1500
Austria-Hungary 1560
Union of Lublin (Poland-Lithuania) 1569
Iberian Union (Spain-Portugal) 1580
Ottoman-Barbary (Ottomans-Tunisia) 1580
Union of the Crowns (England-Scotland) 1600
Prussia-Brandenburg (Prussia-Germany, not total) 1618
Council of Pereyaslav (Muscovy-Kiev) 1660
Treaty of Hadiach (Poland-Kiev) 1660
Spanish Succession (France-Spain) 1700
Act of Union (England-Scotland) 1707

Keep in mind that only a small number of these will likely happen during any one game. I'll also put in the Spanish Netherlands around 1520 and French Burgundian Inheritance around 1480.

Two of the unions are special. Union of Krewo ignores religion penalty and the Spanish Succession triggers a world war if it is enacted.

Is this list of potential unions accurate for Alpha 4?

 

[AdrienIer]

Small feedback on the beginning of an Arragonian game :
Why are there 2 settlers on spawn inland ? Spain is usually so crowded that there is no use for an other city in the Iberian peninsula. Or is it supposed to be used on Crete or Sicily ?
The first UHV is almost impossible IMO because of Palermo's defences. How are you supposed to attack a city with walls that has ~ 5 horse archers, 4 trebuchets, a mounted sergeant, 4 guisarmiers, 3 archers, all with at least one promotion ?
The opening really depends on how the other three iberian civs are doing, once I found Spain reduced to Leon and La Coruna, vassal of Cordoba, once I found the city of Cordoba taken by the Portugese while the Spanish were so-so, and once Cordoba was collapsed by Spain. The problem is that they are all advanced compared to you because of your late start, and your army is not big enough to fight in Sicily and in Iberia.
UU, UB and UP are fine.

 

[The Turk]

Just finished a game, as the Scottish. This modmod is really great! Great work!

But I would like to suggest an overhaul of the "companies". I suggest having companies spread automatically like in SoI, so that there are no cities which host the title of founding a company, but instead they spread around, if they meet the following conditions:

Religion
Resource
Regions Controlled

If the correct conditions are met, than the company will spread to some city in that province. How does that sound? IMO it would make for much more historical gameplay, and a more sensible company structure.


PS. Is there an SVN update I can use?

 

[Opera]

@Morholt: will you change Germany's UHV when you implement the HRE system? As I said in another thread, I think it's currently both too easy and boring.

 

[MariusMR]

If you settle at the starting point you get Tonsberg, which was the de facto capital of Norway until the 13th century. Other possibilities might be Bjorgvin or Oslo. Vestfold is part of Norway proper, the fact that the other province is named Norway is slightly unfortunate. Perhaps it should be called Hordaland, Bergenhus, or Western Norway instead?

I understand the historical accuracy of the capital in Vestfold, as it was after all Harald Fairhair of Vestfold who unified the petty kingdoms of Norway. It doesn't really matter that the capital is Tonsberg, it just seems like a pity for me to have to conquer it for the Danish UHV.

Just another bit of info on the subject:

The establishment of cities gathered pace, and by the end of the 11th century, the three largest cities of modern-day Norway, Oslo, Trondheim (Nidaros) and Bergen (Bjørgvin) were flourishing, as well as Tønsberg, the most important city in Eastern Norway until c. 1300 - Norway in the Middle Ages

Either Bergenhus or Hordaland would be a better name for Norway province, but Hordaland would probably be more historically accurate as a petty kingdom in that area prior to unification.

I somewhat agree, perhaps the viking point system should be replaced entirely with a new UHV.

I agree that a new UHV would perhaps be better, as I also find it rather boring just going around pillaging, clearly not partial to the Viking way of life

Something relating to religion, perhaps?

The Church gradually developed its organization, and the archdiocese of Nidaros was established in 1152 or 1153. By that time, there were five dioceses in mainland Norway, with bishops in Nidaros, Bjorgvin, Stavanger, Oslo and Hamar. - Norway in the Middle Ages

Perhaps building a Catholic Cathedral in Nidaros (or your capital) and 5 catholic monasteries in the Norwegian (solid) provinces by a certain date? A required minimum faith points could also be set which would realistically necessitate spawning a Great Prophet for the 10 point boost?

I started another game as Sweden and on the Swedish start no religions had spread to any Norwegian cities. In 1281 (turn 227) Islam spread to Tonsberg and Norway converted, becoming the Islamic Norwegian Sultanate. Islam seems to spread to the Baltic, Scandinavia and Britain quite often, especially because there is a big religious vacuum in most games. I often see an Islamic Chester or Plymouth, and in the current Swedish game Islam spread to Reval after I conquered it (it was a Barbarian settlement).

Perhaps it should be increased to eight?

I'm not sure there are eight good settling / city spots in those three provinces. I see Estonia and Livonia are indicated as 'solid' for Sweden.

In 1219 Livonia was controlled by the Brotherhood of the Sword and Talinn / Reval by Denmark. Would it be too far-fetched to require 8 cities in Norrland, Finland, Karelia, Estonia and Livonia? Novgorod often settles cities in the latter two provinces as well.

This UHV is based on the Thirty Years' War, an extremely destructive war where the Swedish armies followed the principle of "war feeding war", ie paying for your armier by large-scale looting. Germany was virtually depopulated as a result, see for example this map

Perhaps a UHV that would require no Catholic cities in Brandenburg, Pomerania, Greater Poland, and the area? It would require both conquering and persecuting or simply just razing? Or alternatively no Catholic cities in those provinces and spread Protestantism to all the cities in the area?

It's not supposed to be impossible, but low probability since the union did not endure historically. Best case, at Friendly relations and same religion, the AI has 50% chance of accepting.

Cool, I'm trying Sweden again to see if I can manage it this time around (although the Islamic Norwegian Sultanate is a bit of a pain... )

I feel like I added a lot of provinces already, but Saxony could use some splitting up now that Denmark is in. I'll try this.

I'm actually very happy about the province additions, especially Liguria

I would suggest adding a conflict zone between Denmark and Germany more or less as depicted below (Schleswig and Holstein), and perhaps moving Pomerania to the banks of the Oder River to include Stettin. If Poland does settle there it should make Germany more aggressive towards it. It still gives Brandenburg coastal 'property' as well.

That is actually an interesting idea. I'll think about it.

But remember that Prussia actually didn't expand much until the very last few turns of this mod's timeline, most of the time it was a relatively small country with an enormous army, which was what I tried to get across with the Seven Years' War UHV.

The Seven Year's War was in part triggered by Prussian expansionist tendencies and occupation of Silesia, and if IRRC, Hanover.

This was a bug in Alpha 3, did it also happen in Alpha 4?

Haven't tried it since the release

This was very helpful, thanks . Just play the game normally and tell me what works/doesn't. Also I really appreciate writeups/AAR's.

No problem!

I've played and won UHV's on Alpha 3 for Novgorod, Serbia and Poland, and Aragon and Denmark on Alpha 4.

I'll write up my experience as Aragon in a bit, and also respond to AdrienIer with my experience re: Palermo and Cordoba as Aragon.

 

[Morholt]

Small feedback on the beginning of an Arragonian game :
Why are there 2 settlers on spawn inland ? Spain is usually so crowded that there is no use for an other city in the Iberian peninsula. Or is it supposed to be used on Crete or Sicily ?
The first UHV is almost impossible IMO because of Palermo's defences. How are you supposed to attack a city with walls that has ~ 5 horse archers, 4 trebuchets, a mounted sergeant, 4 guisarmiers, 3 archers, all with at least one promotion ?
The opening really depends on how the other three iberian civs are doing, once I found Spain reduced to Leon and La Coruna, vassal of Cordoba, once I found the city of Cordoba taken by the Portugese while the Spanish were so-so, and once Cordoba was collapsed by Spain. The problem is that they are all advanced compared to you because of your late start, and your army is not big enough to fight in Sicily and in Iberia.
UU, UB and UP are fine.

I like to use the settler to rebuild Valencia 1S. The AI seems to like to found Girona 2E of Barcelona.

Capturing Palermo is definitely possible, but it is harder than one might expect. Certainly one of the harder UHV's. Basically you have to build ~2 trebuchets in Zaragoza first thing (trade techs with the pope), cogs in Barcelona and as many Almogavars as you can.

Just finished a game, as the Scottish. This modmod is really great! Great work!

But I would like to suggest an overhaul of the "companies". I suggest having companies spread automatically like in SoI, so that there are no cities which host the title of founding a company, but instead they spread around, if they meet the following conditions:

Religion
Resource
Regions Controlled

If the correct conditions are met, than the company will spread to some city in that province. How does that sound? IMO it would make for much more historical gameplay, and a more sensible company structure.

PS. Is there an SVN update I can use?

SoI-style corps is currently not planned. I'm a bit torn on them personally. I'll need to think about that more, in case they go in it will not be for quite some time.

No SVN, sorry.

@Morholt: will you change Germany's UHV when you implement the HRE system? As I said in another thread, I think it's currently both too easy and boring.

Yes, that sounds like a good idea.

It doesn't really matter that the capital is Tonsberg, it just seems like a pity for me to have to conquer it for the Danish UHV

Actually I put that as the UHV because it is the capital of Norway. The North Sea Empire contained all of Norway but I though that would be too difficult to do in time in case you got a powerful Norway.

started another game as Sweden and on the Swedish start no religions had spread to any Norwegian cities. In 1281 (turn 227) Islam spread to Tonsberg and Norway converted, becoming the Islamic Norwegian Sultanate. Islam seems to spread to the Baltic, Scandinavia and Britain quite often, especially because there is a big religious vacuum in most games. I often see an Islamic Chester or Plymouth, and in the current Swedish game Islam spread to Reval after I conquered it (it was a Barbarian settlement).

Seems like I might have to tweak the Scandinavian civs' religion spread after all then.

I'm not sure there are eight good settling / city spots in those three provinces.

But you're not supposed to win UHV's by just playing normally. I think eight cities is not too cramped.

Perhaps a UHV that would require no Catholic cities in Brandenburg, Pomerania, Greater Poland, and the area? It would require both conquering and persecuting or simply just razing? Or alternatively no Catholic cities in those provinces and spread Protestantism to all the cities in the area?

Perhaps. Did you manage to win the current UHV yet? Was it not quite similar to this? Or did you have to do something silly like taking a boat to Spain?

I would suggest adding a conflict zone between Denmark and Germany more or less as depicted below (Schleswig and Holstein), and perhaps moving Pomerania to the banks of the Oder River to include Stettin. If Poland does settle there it should make Germany more aggressive towards it. It still gives Brandenburg coastal 'property' as well.

This looks pretty good.

 

[AdrienIer]

Capturing Palermo is definitely possible, but it is harder than one might expect. Certainly one of the harder UHV's. Basically you have to build ~2 trebuchets in Zaragoza first thing (trade techs with the pope), cogs in Barcelona and as many Almogavars as you can.

Do you have any plans on making a Sicilian civ ? It would make the challenge different.

 

[MariusMR]

I like to use the settler to rebuild Valencia 1S. The AI seems to like to found Girona 2E of Barcelona.

Capturing Palermo is definitely possible, but it is harder than one might expect. Certainly one of the harder UHV's. Basically you have to build ~2 trebuchets in Zaragoza first thing (trade techs with the pope), cogs in Barcelona and as many Almogavars as you can.

The AI does indeed settle on the salt east of Barcelona. I take the second settler to the marble (although I hate settling on resources ) north east of Barcelona and settle Perpignan (oddly, in Provence). Not that you particularly need the marble as Aragon, but it gives a foothold in Provence which I use(d)as a base later to take over Provence in its entirety for the third UHV, which means conquering Marseille and Cannes, considering the AI's new fondness for settling there (it seems to like salt! )

I would also concur with reworking the first German UHV as it is rather easy and trivial. In RFCE it involves conquering two independent cities (Lübeck and Milan) and settling the rest. On ocassion it requires attacking a Burgundian settlement in western Swabia (Fribourg normally).

Actually I put that as the UHV because it is the capital of Norway. The North Sea Empire contained all of Norway but I though that would be too difficult to do in time in case you got a powerful Norway.

Indeed, and understood, was just that I wanted to enact the Danish-Norwegian union and relates more to a personal distaste for conquering capitals and potentially collapsing civs. I hate huge swathes of independent cities. I've seen Germany, France and Poland collapse leaving the whole of Western and Central Europe independent.

Perhaps. Did you manage to win the current UHV yet? Was it not quite similar to this? Or did you have to do something silly like taking a boat to Spain?

As indicated in the screenshot above, Spain collapsed I haven't played that far yet but will give feedback as soon as I can.

Aragon UHV

In the first instance, AI Spain really doesn't seem to make an effort at getting rid of Cordoba, and neither does Portugal. Cordoba still controlled most of the Iberian peninsula when Aragon arrived, including Toledo and Barcelona. Sometimes they even control Bordeaux or Toulouse! (In the shot above from the Sweden game, Spain collapsed and Cordoba is still firmly in charge of most of the Iberian Peninsula).

It took me about 60 years to do Spain's job and clean up the Iberian Peninsula. I had to hire all the mercenaries to prevent Cordoba from doing exactly that (and it does often), but mainly used the initial Almoghavars (sp??) and, if you're lucky enough to not have an Andalusian Duchy to the south (i.e. a Catholic Cordoba), the Pope's (rather small defensive crusader force of) two armored lancers and two macemen.

I camped the mercenaries just outside Valencia and Cordoba sends the bulk of its units there (rather silly, but anyway). I started cleansing Spain by taking back Toledo, Cordoba and two other cities in the south and gifting them to Spain as I go along, healing my units in those cities before I move on.

I took back Valencia finally, had Cordoba capitulate and collapse a few turns later anyway. In the mean time I trained two cogs in Valencia and took the initial four almoghavars, the two macemen and two armored lancers (one of which was a mercenary unit with the amphibious promotion) to Palermo in a rather arduous back and forth journey. I upgraded the lancers to knights first, and then took the one with the amphibious promotion first to clear a landing spot and I slowly landed the eight units in Sicily south of Palermo. Capturing the city itself wasn't too difficult using the right units against the Sicilian units. The transporting and landing is the tedious part IMO.

I then took two Almoghavars to Naples (who only had two archers and no walls), and took that easily.

In the mean time Valencia and Barcelona were spamming ships (mainly war galleys - later upgraded to Gun Galleys - and two extra cogs for the transport to Sardinia, Corsica and later Thessaly). I find the war ships useful for protecting coastal resources and station them around the Belearic Islands and Iberian and French Mediterranean coasts.

I settled the two Great Generals I got in Zaragoza (one which irritatingly spawned in Palma de Mallorca!) and built the Heroic Epic (the marble from Perpignan did actually come in handy!). I then created about 8 - 10 Almoghavars and stationed them east of Perpignan on the border with Burgundy (when the plague came, it killed three ships (weird for a plague!) but fortunately the Almoghavars were safe despite plague all over Provence).

I used my cogs to inspect Sardinia and Corsica (settled by Genoa of course) and started the invasion of the Islands from the base in Palermo, taking the "amphibious" knight to directly land and assault the swordsman Simone stationed in the one Sardinian city.

I took all the military units from Palermo (with the exception of the Pope's two knights) and stationed them in the city on the northern tip of Sardinia, the southern one was still Genoan. I left the two macemen in Sardinia and landed two knights and four Almoghavars just south of Aiaccio. I easily took the city, healed and moved back to the city in Sardinia, and landing my troops one tile north west of the southern Genoan city on Sardinia. Taking the city was easy too, and Genoa signed a peace treaty, and a few turns later wanted to be my vassal.

Burgundy asked that I protect her too, but I declined and declared war instead, invading a post-plague Marseille and Cannes swiftly with four / five Almoghavars each.

I even had time to settle Syracuse, the city on the southern most tip of Calabria (the province south of Apulia) and La Valetta on Malta (was the latter not previously a requirement for UHV-3?)

The 25 ships was easy as I made most coastal cities produce at least one, while Valencia and Barcelona created the bulk of the ships. After I met UHV-2 I took my original force against Cordoba (the four Almoghavars, the two knights and macemen) just west of Athens after declaring war on Byzantium and took that city easily as well.

That was it really. I have to say that I think a lot of the military success will depend on a handful of units in top form and carefully tended to and promoted. Maybe that's why it is actually good that you have to take out Cordoba first.

Aragon-Castille Union

I saved prior to winning third UHV and gifted Athens back to the Byzantium on reload to see what an Aragon-Castille union (with the former dominant) would look like in 1488. This happens after an Aragon Historical Victory so I personally don't see the use of such a union for either a human or AI player (the latter for historical reasons).

Spain, not having waged as much war on Cordoba, was a formidable opponent tech and score wise, pushing out wonders too. I ensured I had enough money to buy the Union (I find that often makes a huge difference) and succeeded.

I got all the Spanish possessions (with the exception of Jerusalem and Tuscany, which they seem to conquer now too), but it was a huge unstable empire. I played until after 1500 and my stability was unstable at -16 / -18. (I didn't bother with the Imperialism civic before the Union and didn't adopt it afterward either because stability was already bad).

Genoa took control of a crusade, declared war on my other vassal (Byzantium) after renouncing my protection, and then conquered Constantinople. I conquered Genoa and Milan (gifting to France and Germany respectively), and recaptured Constantinople. I couldn't gift it to my vassal Byzantium, so stability dropped and I was collapsing.

I quit the game seeing no further purpose in playing Aragon having successfully (if one can call it that) united Spain under the Crown of Aragon. So the Union with Aragon is possible, but probably unfortunate, both practically (for game and stability purposes) and historically.

Concluding thoughts on Aragon

I think the conquest and control UHVs are interesting and challenging, because they require some careful micro-management, if you will, of a rather limited military force initially, which can be successfully transformed into a highly skilled one.

The 25 ships is a bit boring, but not impossible and not entirely useless

I didn't use their UB that much, building it for the sake of it, but still using two cargo capacity cogs en masse. Their UU is definitely an awesome addition (except against macemen with their +25% against polearms, I think... but their great for cavalry and early ranged units, especially with the city attack promotions).

All-in-all I think Aragon is a great addition, both for the player and the game in general (as AI), and the potential (and quite frequent, if not normal) absorption of the Crown of Aragon into the Kingdom of Spain led by Castille is a good thing too, historically anyway.

It seems unfortunate that you have to conquer Marseille and Cannes, when Aragon historically only controlled what is the in-game city of Perpignan, but it makes it challenging (and Burgundy gets absorbed into France anyway).

I would kinda agree with AdrienIer on the army size, especially if Cordoba is Catholic and there is no defensive crusade. Cordoba has become an apparently formidable entity on the Peninsula. But I still think it is possible to outsmart it with effective micro-management of troops.

EDIT: I find it funny that Swedish naval units also get the promotion against cavalry, it's not a major issue, but can it be coded to be for land units only? It's mainly for cosmetic reasons and tying up odds and ends, but just a thought

 

[The Turk]

SoI-style corps is currently not planned. I'm a bit torn on them personally. I'll need to think about that more, in case they go in it will not be for quite some time.

Morholt, let me convince you to do this, because believe me, it will make your mod look so much more profesional, considering that at the time, there was no such thing as "Banking Executives" that would spread your "corporation around", they were independently spread, by independent groups, not controlled by a King or Regent.

So here is an example from SoI:
(Slanted conditions are required for it to spread/ All other conditions are recommended for it to spread)
For Venetian Merchants to spread to you cities you need:
1. Coastal cities along the Mediterranean coast
2. Not at war with Catholic civs (if non-Catholic)
3. Not running State Monopoly Civic
4. Christian population and State-religion, especially Catholic
5. Available Spice, Silk and Incense
6. Commercial buildings
7. Trade Routes
8. Market Economy or Merchant Capitalism Civic
9. No competition from Genoans or Karimis
10. Active from 12th century

So for example, the Hanseatic League could have these conditions (these are just some quick suggestions:
1. Coastal cities along the Baltic Sea (Provinces where it spread historically)
2. Not at war with Baltic neighbors
3. Be running Catholic state religion
4. Commerce Buildings
5. Available Amber, timber etc.
6. Trade Routes
7. Active from 1358

Overall you could cap the number of cities with the Hanseatic league, to lets say 15, to create competition, which would have been a very real issue in the Medieval world.

And so cities would compete with each other to have the League spread to their cities. How does this not so WAYYY better than the current "corporation" setup?
Also I'd help you set it up, by writing up conditions and regions etc. Another idea would be to add a Middle Eastern Company like the Karimi Family (which was based in Egypt and then spread), since you now have so many Middle Eastern civs.

Also can you please limit some wonders to certain religions and perhaps regions. For example I saw the Gardens of al-Andalus being built in Norway... . Having Islam as a pre-requisite would have these wonders be built in a more believable place.


PS. I recently saw the "Spanish Republic" in 1400, where is that stemming from??? Also I'm hearing some talk about a new Holy Roman Empire system, could you shed a bit of light, on what you intend to do, because it sounds really great, whatever your planning!

 

[youtien]

Tonsberg has became stronger than Venice and Genoa and many seaports in Europe - 2 seafoods, copper and iron, plus honey. I think it is too good.

 

[CrossRFC]

Despite the fact that you said you weren't going to add any other civs after Beta 1, I would very much recommend adding one of the three Romanian kingdoms (Wallachia, Moldavia and Transylvania), as there currently are no civs to represent the (somewhat significant) Romanian culture group, probably culturally on par with the Serbs.

Wallachia would be the most improbable to add, as it chokes Bulgaria.
Moldavia has more space to grow and its core area doesn't overlap with other civs.
Finally, Transylvania would weaken Hungary, facilitating either Austrian or Ottoman (both historical) takeovers of Eastern Europe.

Any of those civs, especially Transylvania would help "balkanize" the Balkans, making it easier for Western or Muslim civs to conquer the region.

 

[Morholt]

Morholt, let me convince you to do this, because believe me, it will make your mod look so much more profesional, considering that at the time, there was no such thing as "Banking Executives" that would spread your "corporation around", they were independently spread, by independent groups..

Here's where I disagree with you. I don't know about the others, but at least the Knight Orders and the Hanseatic League were centralized organizations with a headquarters, led by the equivalent of modern day CEO and board of directors, who decided how the organization should expand and where they should trade..

..not controlled by a King or Regent.

..and that's the core of the problem. Currently the player has many powers that historically, a monarch would not have. The player decides what is built in every city, what will be researched by the scholars, and has the power to change the form of government whenever. Is it unreasonable to let the player control the corporations in their country?

Overall you could cap the number of cities with the Hanseatic league, to lets say 15, to create competition, which would have been a very real issue in the Medieval world.

And so cities would compete with each other to have the League spread to their cities. How does this not so WAYYY better than the current "corporation" setup?
Also I'd help you set it up, by writing up conditions and regions etc. Another idea would be to add a Middle Eastern Company like the Karimi Family (which was based in Egypt and then spread), since you now have so many Middle Eastern civs.

Anyways, the current release schedule goes like, add the last civs and HRE system -> Alpha 5. Remove any game-breaking bugs -> Beta 1. So this would not go in until Beta 2 at the earliest. If I do overhaul the corporations adding extra corps might be discussed at that point.

Also can you please limit some wonders to certain religions and perhaps regions. For example I saw the Gardens of al-Andalus being built in Norway... . Having Islam as a pre-requisite would have these wonders be built in a more believable place.

More wonders used to be religion limited in RFCE, but a few betas ago most of the limitations were removed. Now there is mostly soft limitations like Arabic Knowledge being required for Gardens of Al-Andalus. I kind of like it personally, keeps things a bit more unpredictable. I could see tweaking the Muslim civs to make them more likely to build the wonders before the Christians get an opportunity, or adding like a 50% bonus for having Islam in the city.

PS. I recently saw the "Spanish Republic" in 1400, where is that stemming from??? Also I'm hearing some talk about a new Holy Roman Empire system, could you shed a bit of light, on what you intend to do, because it sounds really great, whatever your planning!

"Republic" dynamic name means that they have adopted the Merchant Republic civic.

The HRE is still unfinished, but basically it will work like this (note similarity with the Apostolic Palace system):

• There is an "empire" city attribute or fake religion.
• In 962, the empire is founded and every city in a predefined area gets the "empire" attribute. Also every city founded within this area up to like 1300 gets it automatically.
• Every civ with Empire in any of their cities is a voting member in the HRE. Their votes is proportional to the population in Imperial cities.
• Every civ with Empire in their capital (normally this will be Germany, Austria, Lombardy and Bohemia. Burgundy starts partly within the Empire) is a full member.
• Every now and then there is an election for Emperor, between the two strongest full members. Some wonders (Imperial Diet?) might guarantee a place in the election.
• Every full member in the HRE has a sort of defensive pact with the Emperor. So attacking a part of the Empire puts you at war with the Emperor also, attacking the Emperor puts you at war with the entire HRE.
• Every now and then the Emperor gets a choice between some actions to take. They might be: Add a city to the Empire (with the consent of the owner), Remove a city from the Empire, get soldiers from every civ in the Empire, get gold from every civ in the Empire, force-convert everyone in the Empire to your religion and so on.
• When the Emperor has passed a decree the others decide whether to agree or defy. Defying puts you at war with the Emperor, and being at war with the Emperor might be a way to leave the Empire.
• After say the Golden Bull has been built, all members get to vote on decrees. So instead of Agree or Defy you get Yes/No/Never!.
• The Empire should start as a powerful force and then eventually run out of steam around the 14th century and become more or less irrelevant by the Thirty Years' War. Germany and Austria will probably get some UHV's relating to the HRE.

Tonsberg has became stronger than Venice and Genoa and many seaports in Europe - 2 seafoods, copper and iron, plus honey. I think it is too good.

Yeah, I guess it needs a nerf.

Despite the fact that you said you weren't going to add any other civs after Beta 1, I would very much recommend adding one of the three Romanian kingdoms (Wallachia, Moldavia and Transylvania), as there currently are no civs to represent the (somewhat significant) Romanian culture group, probably culturally on par with the Serbs.

Wallachia would be the most improbable to add, as it chokes Bulgaria.
Moldavia has more space to grow and its core area doesn't overlap with other civs.
Finally, Transylvania would weaken Hungary, facilitating either Austrian or Ottoman (both historical) takeovers of Eastern Europe.

Any of those civs, especially Transylvania would help "balkanize" the Balkans, making it easier for Western or Muslim civs to conquer the region.

Transylvania is actually not an entirely bad idea. Spawn sometime 1525-1571? UHV conquering Poland? But yeah, there is a freeze on additional civs now, so they would not go in until ~Beta 3 or whenever I feel the mod is polished enough. Provided the last two civs do not make the mod too slow.

 

[AdrienIer]

I find it funny that Swedish naval units also get the promotion against cavalry, it's not a major issue, but can it be coded to be for land units only? It's mainly for cosmetic reasons and tying up odds and ends, but just a thought

IIRC the workers also have the promotion...

It seems that the Aragonian game depends on your starting situation, in my case it was a tie between Castille and Cordoba prior to my spawn, and my spawn pushed it on the spanish side with Portugal taking Sevilla and Cordoba from them ~1200. They also seemed to have had a defensive crusade just before I spawned. The main problem is actually having an army big enough to get Valencia from the Cordobans, then taking Sicily.
And I don't agree about the UB : with all the war galleys you're going to build, it comes rather handy to be able to load your army in those (it annihilates the possibility of an enemy war galley taking down your cog loaded with your 2 promoted knights).

Every civ with Empire in their capital (normally this will be Germany, Austria, Lombardy and Bohemia. Burgundy starts partly within the Empire) is a full member.

What is this with Lombardy and Bohemia civ ?
Your HRE system looks pretty good !

 

[SteveTR]

What is this with Lombardy and Bohemia civ ?
Your HRE system looks pretty good !

Apparently, he plans to add those in Alpha 5...

 

[Opera]

The promotion issue for Sweden has been fixed for the next version of base RFCE, so I don't think it's Morholt's job to take care of this

 

[MariusMR]

I forgot that RFCE++ didn't add Sweden, just made them more awesome j/k

 

[civ_king]

I got UHV1 as Lithuania, w00t!
Expansion: Prussia collapsed Poland, I gobbled up Poland, conquered Prussia (make sure to get every worker), founded two cities with the extra settler and flipped settler, get Riga
Cities: Build a couple workers and then build culture letting cities grow as much as possible, when civic change artists to the max. Got 3 Artists (was running 5-6 in some cities), stuck them in a city which I built Catholic and Orthodox belfries in
Workers: Farm everything
Research: Beeline for education for apprenticeship (unlimited artists), acquire Literature for Religious Law (+2/specialist!, 50% better artists
Civics: go agricivic then apprenticeship/religious law
by the end I was making like 250 culture a turn

Later:
Danes became my peace vassaled, I thought sweet free happiness, bam war with Norway and Sweden, so I killed Norway, gifted cities to Denmark, conquered Gotland, Gotaland, Skaneland (gifted to denmark) vassalized Sweden, wished I could have combined them into one union. Germany peace vassals to me, war with France and Burgundy (Genoa was only city, WTH?), got English in it (they owned Bretagne/Normandy). Conquered the parts of France that Germans can have stably then gifted, France collapses, Spanish conquer Aquitaine, Aragonese get Provence, English conquered the rest. Then Hungary decides to be my vassal and I helped them carve up the Balkans (and kill Austria since I was almost at domination).

 

[MariusMR]

@civ_king, thanks for the tips on Lithuania's 1st UHV. Although I don't like it very much, it does seem doable after all.

I managed to get the Magnus IV and VII Union as Sweden (in 1329). Norway actually came to the talks for once

We had the same religion (eventually), but I converted to Catholicism late because Norway had no state religion most of the time, so there was no religious diplomatic bonus. But I did settle a city close to Norway's borders and 'liberated' it, and ended up with +6 relations (pleased), one for liberating the city, 4 for trade relations, and 1 for prolonged open borders.

They came to the talks, but because I gifted Norway all my gold (admittedly, 300 is not much!) I couldn't spend a lot of money for the Union (something like 76), but took the 2 turn anarchy penalty, lost all religious buildings (the one Catholic Church in Kalmar ) and lost 75% spy points. I did nothing military-wise, ending up with an advantage anyway, and gobbling up Norway peacefully

Stability immediately post-Union shot up to 31, came down during the anarchy turns (lowest was -2 shaky) and then settled back to about +16.

Also Denmark asked for mighty Sweden's protection and became a vassal of the Swedish Empire!

Haven't continued yet, but will see if I can get the Danish cities through the Kalmar Union too.

 

[AbsintheRed]

EDIT: I find it funny that Swedish naval units also get the promotion against cavalry, it's not a major issue, but can it be coded to be for land units only? It's mainly for cosmetic reasons and tying up odds and ends, but just a thought

Actually this is already changed in RFCE (both for Cordoba and for Sweden)
So it will also get into RFCE++ after we release a new version, and Morholt updates this mod too

 

[AbsintheRed]

Despite the fact that you said you weren't going to add any other civs after Beta 1, I would very much recommend adding one of the three Romanian kingdoms (Wallachia, Moldavia and Transylvania), as there currently are no civs to represent the (somewhat significant) Romanian culture group, probably culturally on par with the Serbs.

Wallachia would be the most improbable to add, as it chokes Bulgaria.
Moldavia has more space to grow and its core area doesn't overlap with other civs.
Finally, Transylvania would weaken Hungary, facilitating either Austrian or Ottoman (both historical) takeovers of Eastern Europe.

Any of those civs, especially Transylvania would help "balkanize" the Balkans, making it easier for Western or Muslim civs to conquer the region.

What, Transylvania as romanian?
I don't want to be mean, but is this a joke?
Anyway, I don't really think there is real place for a romanian civ
During the middle ages they were not important enough IMO
Also, adding a new capital in Wallachia would hurt Bulgaria too much

Transylvania is actually not an entirely bad idea. Spawn sometime 1525-1571? UHV conquering Poland? But yeah, there is a freeze on additional civs now, so they would not go in until ~Beta 3 or whenever I feel the mod is polished enough. Provided the last two civs do not make the mod too slow.

I don't really agree with you, but if you want to have Tranysylvania, it should only be possible if Hungary collapsed by the mid 16th century (probably because of ottoman conquest)
Then Hungary could respawn as Transylvania, leaving room for Austria to get some of the northwestern hungarian cities and the ottomans to get the southern cities
If Hungary never collapses, obviously no Transylvania, and the union system can take place