Modscenario: Playable Byzantines, 610AD.

Of course it was a sugar. (Whoever has heard of Australian silk anyway? :lol: But then again, where does Philippine silk come in?) If anything, India should have a silk:
Silk, known as Pattu in southern parts of India and Resham in Hindi/Urdu (from Persian), has a long history in India. Recent archaeological discoveries in Harappa and Chanhu-daro suggest that sericulture, employing wild silk threads from native silkworm species, existed in South Asia during the time of the Indus Valley Civilisation, roughly contemporaneous with the earliest known silk use in China.[4] Silk is widely produced today. India is also the largest consumer of silk in the world. The tradition of wearing silk sarees in marriages by the brides is followed in southern parts of India. Silk is worn by people as a symbol of royalty while attending functions and during festivals. Historically silk was used by the upper classes, while cotton was used by the poorer classes. Today silk is mainly used in Bhoodhan Pochampally (also known as Silk City), Kanchipuram, Dharmavaram, Mysore, etc. in South India and Banaras in the North for manufacturing garments and sarees. "Murshidabad silk", famous from historical times, is mainly produced in Malda and Murshidabad district of West Bengal and woven with hand looms in Birbhum and Murshidabad district. Another place famous for production of silk is Bhagalpur. The silk from Kanchi is particularly well-known for its classic designs and enduring quality. The silk is traditionally hand-woven and hand-dyed and usually also has silver threads woven into the cloth. Most of this silk is used to make saris. The saris usually are very expensive and vibrant in color. Garments made from silk form an integral part of Indian weddings and other celebrations. In the northeastern state of Assam, three different types of silk are produced, collectively called Assam silk: Muga, Eri and Pat silk. Muga, the golden silk, and Eri are produced by silkworms that are native only to Assam. The heritage of silk rearing and weaving is very old and continues today especially with the production of Muga and Pat riha and mekhela chador, the three-piece silk saris woven with traditional motifs. Mysore Silk Sarees, which are known for their soft texture, last many years if carefully maintained.
 
I never have original thoughts. Whenever I put a colon, what follows is probably from Wikipedia. Don't you know by now? :D
 
Sigh. If it ain't one rackinfrackin sassifrassin fratinizin thing it's another. Latest game failure comes due to the Japanese having razed Hanseong and built freaking Uonsan, which is two squares away from the Silk. Japan itself proved too tough a target, because the Silk sits right in the middle of the Kyouto-Hakodate-Edo triangle. I would have had to capture all three and raze the first two.

So, I needed a second Settler in my baggage train, to take the Korean Silk tile after destroying Uonsan. Well, I guess I can do that in the future. It's not like those trash cities in north Africa contribute anything after they've got their Temples up.

Oh, also, according to Qin I was Worse than Hitler, and he would never trade with me under any circumstances. I called him all kinds of filthy names, which didn't get my any closer to getting a Silk from him, but did make me feel better.

It appears to me that the only way to get the Silk condition (as it stands now) is to go into the Far East with at least Catapults and three well-promoted Cataphracts, as well as three Workers, two Settlers, and two garrison units. You will also need a small army sitting in Galleons near the mouth of the Red Sea in order to keep your trade routes open, so you can easily retake Mecca and Sana'a when your cities secede, which they eventually will in either a civil war or outright collapse.

Related: You should probably provoke a collapse after you get Astronomy, in order to reset the meter and keep your new cities in the Far East from peeling away. Also, forget Gunpowder and fighting the Turks. Let 'em have Anatolia, and concentrate on keeping Hierousalem and the Red Sea open.
 
What about capturing Shiraz (it's on the coast) and building Baghdad yourself? Once the roads are up, you don't need the Red Sea open. (Only an archer is in Shiraz at start, easy to capture with a cataphract).
 
I haven't tried a "Shiraz strategy", so I don't want to say it is impossible. But I swallow really hard when I think about what it entails.

First, have you tried this mod? That's not a "Put up or Shut up" challenge, I hasten say: If you haven't tried it, I wish you would, because I know you would be able to give TDK much better notes than me. (And because it's a lot of fun!) But if you haven't tried it, you might not know that the Arabs are much stronger here than in RFC 600. They start with 14 Camel Archers and 6 Longbows (in addition to the standard alotment of Settlers and Workers and Swordsmen, etc.). Within the first ten turns you can destroy a good chunk of these with little loss to yourself if you are very careful and prudent, but it will still leave Saladin with a powerful force. You as the Byzantine player, though, will not be able to build a large force to counteract it, because you will be too busy building temples so you can build cathedrals.

Moreover, in all my games I've had breathing room to go for temples only because the Arabs like to go east and take Shiraz and the other Persian cities for themselves. If I go for Shiraz early, I will be fighting Saladin for it, and if I take it I will have a massive arc, stretching from Hierousalem to Shiraz, that I will have to defend with only a very small strike force. He, on the other hand, will have interior lines of communication so that he can strike wherever he pleases. (In the early game, you can deal with him because he throws everything at Hierousalem and Alexandria, and impales himself on your army.) It's hard enough guarding the small arc running from Hierousalem to the vital sheep pasture just south of Trebizon; I shudder to imagine adding Shiraz to my responsibilities.

I suppose I could try to take Shiraz late, after I have finished temples and can build units again. But I would still have the same geographical nightmare. Moreover, it is impossible to make a permanent peace with Saladin; TDK has it set up so that the Arabs have a vendetta, and even if you make peace, Saladin will declare war again as soon as he can.

I don't want to call a "Shiraz strategem" impossible, but I think the only safe Saladin is the dead one, and the most cost-effective way to kill him is to hit Mecca. And if you've got Mecca, Sana'a will get you access to the ocean and will be quicker to take than Shiraz anyway.

There is also the "Stability" nightmare. Hanging on to Shiraz when your Stability is hovering around -21 wouldn't be any easier than holding onto Sana'a and Mecca, would it?

* * * * *

I feel like I've been complaining endlessly about this Silk UHV condition, so I want to stop here and go on the record as saying that I've grown to like and appreciate it very much. It brings the whole Byzantine game into focus. It means there is a point to fighting the Arabs (access to the Indian Ocean) and racing for Astronomy even at the expense of Gunpowder; it forces you to choose between going for a Historical Victory or protecting your empire from the Turks (it is very hard to do both); it requires close management similar to what you have to do in a Chinese Historical game. I also like the way you have to figure out how to get the three Silks.

That said, AP makes an excellent point about the placement of the Silks. It gives the game the wrong flavor when the fifteenth-century Byzantines have to mount a seabourne invasion of Korea while also colonizing the Philippines. If this were a Venetian mod--

[We pause now for a reverie while I soak in the pleasant thought of what an RFC-Venice mod might be like.]

--um, what?

Oh, if this were a Venetian mod or an AH Spanish mod (one where the Spanish did attempt what they briefly contemplated, IIRC: the conquest of China) then I would be less bothered by it. But though I like the "Byzantines go East" thing, this seems a little much. Here's a modest suggestion, more modest than my "modified corporation" idea: Change Patliputra's Spice resource to a Silk, and the Cotton north of Samarkand to a Silk. The former would represent India's silk production, and the latter would represent the western terminus of the "Silk Road." It would be a bit easier than the current challenge, but it would still give the player interesting choices. He could fight the Arabs for control of Persia and India, or (and this is probably the smarter play) he could force an Arab collapse and stage an amphibious seizure of Patliputra after securing access to the Indian Ocean. In the north he would be in competition with Russia and Mongolia. And there would still be the Far East to (potentially) trade with.
 
Or a better, more accurate, portrayal of the wealth of the Byzantines would be to make the 3rd criteria to: "control the most luxury resources by year x." This would include fur, spices, sugar, silk and cotton (things that came mostly from the East). You would still have to colonize and conquer a lot since China would certainly beat you if you didn't.
 
AND I GOT IT!

Holy mother of pearl. I got the Silk UHV.

It figures that the game where I finally planned for every contingency was the game where everything came together so perfectly I almost didn't need to lay in any contingencies.

The biggest stroke of luck game early on, with the "Dutch" stability hit. That is the one thing that really needs to be fixed, btw. Sometimes it will sock you for thirty points, and sometimes ... Well, this time I'm not even sure it hit me for five. At turn 40, when I am often 15 points underwater, I was only showing -3. So I didn't have to worry about secessions until the Turkish spawn.

War with the Arabs also went well. Luck was with me there, too, in that Sana'a stood off a ways from Salalah, so that I didn't find myself squeezed in at the straits by hostile Independents on either side. That gave me a clear shot at the Indian Ocean.

I got Astronomy by 1260 by skipping Gunpowder, and upgraded my six Galleys to Galleons. I had two Settlers, two Pikemen, and two Workers ready to go, in case I needed to found two cities, and I sent them both out anyway, even though an early Caravel had found Hanseong still standing and still Independent. It was only lightly defended, but I still sent out my three Cataphracts and three Catapults, because I had no idea if it would still be Independent when I arrived. Not long after I set out, it and the other Far Eastern civs were hit by plague. It never spread, but it did kill off all the defenders. My little armada had to stand off outside Chinese/Japanese borders (which closed Hanseong off) because I couldn't get Open Borders with either one; and, besides, I wasn't going to occupy Hanseong until the plague had died out.

Diplomacy with the Chinese was ... odd. They were annoyed at me because of my heathen religion, but shortly after contact they offered to vassalize to me. That would have gotten me Silk and open borders for sure, but I decided to turn them down, because it seemed like an an odd one-off, and I wanted to see if I could get the Silk condition without vassalizing the Middle Kingdom. I did secure Silk from them, though.

In the meantime, the Turks had spawned, which sent my stabilitiy to hell. As soon as I hit Unstable I emptied my cities of their units, and loaded up most of them on the two Galleons I had still in the Mediterranean/Red Sea. I then staged a revolution so as to provoke a collapse, and changed 3 civics just to make sure that there would be two turns of anarchy. Again, remarkably, the collapse went off almost perfectly, and I lost only one Cataphract that I couldn't get away from Hierousalem in time. During the subsequent collapse/anarchy a barbarian Camel Archer captured and sacked Tripolis, which was actually a bit of a relief: I never liked that city. I then cruised the oceans, dropping units into empty Independents; only Cairo and Mecca had to be taken by land, and so within two turns I had my post-Turkish empire back again.

The loss of Mecca had cut my trade link with China, and when I re-established it I found out I had become their worst enemy. So I staged another revolution and switched to No State religion. (Yeah, while still running Organized Religion. I guess I must be High Church Unitarian or something.) By the next turn Qin was Pleased with me and traded one of his two Silk to me, and opened his borders. With that in hand, I moved on Hanseong and occupied it.

Another huge stroke of luck: Many turns before, I was about to pop a Great Person in Constantinopolis. I remembered TDK's suggestion that a Great Artist might be useful, so just before the pop I switched all my specialists to artists. I did it only so I wouldn't forget to after the pop. But even though there was only about a 4% chance of getting a GA on the next turn ... that's what I got. So I had a Great Artist in my baggage train when I arrived in Hanseong. His masterpiece ended disorder instantly and lashed the Silk tile down nicely. As it happens, it was unworked, so I had to bring up my two workers to put a plantation in. When it was done, I sent them back down and put up a plantation in the Philippines next to the city that I had just founded.

Result: Three Silk in 1410. The Victory screen confirms that I met the second condition. (And a relief it is, too, that the game doesn't check in 1450 itself, or the wait would have been agonizing.)

Now I just need to see if I can get the third UHV with my diminished empire. I've had to lower my research rate to 30%.

* * * * *

On a separate note, two bugs to report with the latest version of Byzantines_610, which I downloaded today. First, the game isn't checking for the Cathedral UHV. I built the second cathedral in 1090, and the demographics page confirms that I have 2 cathedrals, but the victory screen in 1410 still says "Not yet" next to that condition.

Second, I did a quick play as the Arabs, just to see what the other side looked like. By turn 10, Alexander was the leader of the Byzantines.

Also, fwiw, the Byzantines are ridiculously easy to defeat when you play as the Arabs, as you might expect given the size of the army you've started them with. I captured Hierousalem, Alexandretta, Iconium, Trebizon, Hesperides, and Tripolis pretty easily, though I did lose 3 or 4 Camel Archers. That pushed the Byzantines into Unstable, and I captured Alexandria when it seceded. Shortly after that, the Byzantines collapsed, as you might expect.

In practice, the Byzantines only come under threat from the AI Arabs in the first few turns, from the seven or eight Camel Archers, two Swordmen, and three Longbowmen that are positioned near Hierousalem. All the others head east to take Shiraz and the other independent Persian cities. My strategy involved pushing the Arabs hard in the early part of the game, so I don't know what they would do with the rest of their army if you let them be. But I think you could probably limit them to eight Camel Archers (the ones near Hierousalem) without making them any less of a threat to a human Byzantine player. This would also make the human-Arab game much less of a cakewalk.
 
Nice Mxzs!

I also managed the 2nd UHV condition, but with a more minimalist approach. I got the Cathedrals by 1000AD but I had lost Alexandria at that point.

I used my 1 GG to promote 3 Triremes and a Galley(+2 move) and then sent them forth into the Red Sea. I lost 3 Greek Fire Triremes but the galley came through with a Settler and Pike. This battle and the day to day defense of fishing nets etc. makes me feel the Greek Fire UP was fun and useful.

After my galley came through and I was about to meet China, I renounced all religion and sued for peace with the Arabs(got a few turns on Guilds).

Meanwhile my Cataphract and Pikes had advanced on the Silk Road and brought up Workers to repair damaged pieces and erect fortresses. I met the Chinese and quickly scouted the diplomatic situation. China was at war with Japan and it's vassal, the Khmer, so I joined the war on Chinas side. That got me open borders and 1 traded Silk from China. With the Silk from the Phillipines that just left me 1 silk short.

Japan had Razed the Korean City and built Uonsan instead, and I managed to take that with the help of my Chinese friends. The problem now was that Plague was killing my workers and my stability was dropping due to the Turk spawn(I gave up Anatolia). I would have to either hold on to Uonsan long enough for it to get the 2 Silk or hold onto the Phillipines.
What saved me in the end was spare workers on the Sillk Road which could be transferred to the Phillipines as replacements. I got the 2/3 Golden Age in 1330AD, but I will collapse for sure anyway. I have Jerusalem and Athens left and I have gathered some army and navy in Constantinople which I hope can put down any rebellion.

We will see if I can be first to Chemistry and Astronomy. The Euros look extrememely strong I'm afraid.

EDIT:
the game isn't checking for the Cathedral UHV. I built the second cathedral in 1090, and the demographics page confirms that I have 2 cathedrals, but the victory screen in 1410 still says "Not yet" next to that condition.
Fixed!
 

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Congrats to you too! It's good to see that there is another path to the Silk UHV.

I'm afraid the rest of the game was an unwholesome mix of tedium and knuckle-biting suspense. Well, there was some excitement. I sent my Galleons home the long way around, and got the Conqueror events in America. I gifted the native units back to the Aztec and Inca, then ferried the remainder back in through the Mediterranean. I had been building up a large army in the wake of my revolution, and when my "American" army arrived, I threw everything I had at the Turks. It was short and one-sided, and in a two-pronged blitz I drove east from Constantinopolis and north from Hierousalem to recapture the land I had lost. I pressing in on Bagdat (built by the Turks), when the Ottomans collapsed. I was still at war with the Independents because of my earlier civil war, but I only had to swat off a couple of pesky catapults.

But the reconquest failed to stave off another round of creeping instability, and I again found myself facing an Unstable situation. This time it took several turns before I could provoke a collapse/reset, but I was again well-prepared for it and took my cities back quickly. It cost me though, I guess.

I discovered Chemistry in 1660. But I lost, because the Dutch discovered it the same turn I did. What a kick in the balls after everything that came before during that game.
 
Sorry to hear that Mxzs.

I finished my game with a win! What I learned from this game is that one should not fear a collapse to much. If you keep the majority of the army and navy in the capital you can quickly retake most of the empire with a quick sea-borne response.
I collapsed in my GA which left me with only J'lem and Constantinople. Athens was retaken quickly and I started to promote a few troops as Amphibious, which eventually retook Alexandria(independent) as well.
I collapsed one more time after this but at that time I had an army of 10-15 units and several ships to respond.

My excellent relations with China continued and Qin eventually became friendly towards me, which allowed me to trade CS and Paper from him. I think CS(Bureaucracy) might have won the game for me as Constantinople accounted for 80% of my science output before CS.

My relations with the Turks were also excellent and eventually resulted in a Defensive Pact - an excellent diplomatic victory for me. When the Arabs attacked, the combined Turko-Byzantine army marched on Mecca and collapsed the Arabs the turn before Mecca would have fallen.
 
Awesome 'bout the win, TDK! I'm impressed you got along so well with the Turks.

After a dozen-plus games, I feel safe in offering some more notes and suggestions.

1. Arabs: I think the military situation with the Arabs is well balanced, though you might give some thought to eliminating some of the starting Camel Archers in the interest of balance when the human takes the Arab civilization in your mod. But, overall, they are a good match for the Byzantines. With prudent aggression you can stave them off with little cost to yourself, and you can even collapse them along about the time you complete the first UHV condition. But if you screw up your opening moves they can put you in a desperate situation. In other words, the game rewards you if you are smart, and punishes you if you are stupid. That's perfect.

2. Cathedral UHV is also good, in that there are several ways to reach it. Whipping is the obvious route, but if you take Cairo and its Stone tile early enough, you can get the first condition by 1100 even if you are running Caste System. Historical flavor might be tweaked; see note below.

3. I think the tech race is also well done. Philosophy is like an Easter egg: You might think it's useless, and you might waste time chasing it, or lose it if you ignore it too long. But Alexandria will certainly pop a Great Scientist before long, and he can get it for you instantly. And then you can build the Wat wonder. Chemistry is also good. You can lose it (as I demonstrated; grrrrr), but the other civs don't prioritize it, so you've got a good shot at it. You demonstrated that you can win without using the Red Sea-Indian Ocean route into the Far East, but Astronomy opens up that as an alternative to the overland route, which I still think (from my earlier games) is deeply unreliable. Making Astronomy a priority is a way of nudging the player about another strategy to reach China.

4. By God, I still can't believe it, but the Silk condition is doable. I've grown to really like it, too, because it brings the game into focus. But see the note below.

5. Stability: You might look into getting rid of that Turn 34 Stability hit. At the very least, it needs an in-game excuse for being. And if you can't get rid of it, can you tone it down? If a city secedes before you've built your Cathedrals, you stand a brutally good chance of losing the Cathedral UHV.

6. Unique Unit/Power/Building:Thank God for the Cataphract, which is like the medieval tank. Don't touch this one. It's the main reason the Byzantines can survive and win.

UP: What's your sense of the Greek fire power? I didn't find it helpful when running the Red Sea, and if you're going to try my "southern" strategy you will have eliminated the Arabs anyway. In your game, you mention, you lost a bunch of triremes, even though they had a GG promotion to to with the Greek fire. After you get Astronomy, Galleons don't have much to fear from Triremes. My sense is that it is not terribly useful, unless you want to change the promotions.

As an alternative, how about "The Power of the Purple" as the Byzantine UP: They start off with Viceroyalty in effect. I think it would make sense both historically and in terms of gameplay. The early Europeans will offer to vassalize to you quite often, and even the Eastern civs will offer to vassalize. (Besides Qin, the Khmer offered in one of my other test games.) Having Viceroyalty in effect might help with the Stability hits, especially if it turns out you can't find a way to get rid of the Curse of Turn 34. Historically, it make sense, as the Byzantine emperor was, theoretically, the highest juridical authority, which even the western Europeans looked to.

UB: I never built a Hippodrome. I was too busy with other things and didn't see much advantage in the happiness/culture bonuses. I know you'd prefer not to muck around too much, but what about a UB for the Byzantines that rewarded you for getting the three Silks?

This has less to do with getting a reward than for finding some reason to hang on to those resources. The maintenance/stability hits for founding/conquering cities in the Far East is horrific, and you need them for only one turn, and after that it's awfully tempting to gift them away. It feels wrong that you should go through all this trouble to seize two cities for only a handful of turns. Real civs don't play "capture the flag." A UB that offered a reward for multiple Silks, though, would make them more useful to hang on to. Maybe (and here I'm just throwing out an idea) replace the National Wonder "Trading Company" with a different National Wonder, a Guild-empowered Entrepot: +1 Trade Route for each Silk.

7. Historical flavor: Playability is excellent, but the historical flavor could stand a little tweaking. Some of the changes I suggested above to the UP and UB would increase historical flavor. More far-reaching changes might involve the suggestion I made about putting Silks closer to home.

Another "flavor" change, but one that might unbalance a well-balanced UHV, is to give the Byzantines Meditation and plant one or two Monasteries. Byzantium was a feudal theocracy (more so than Spain ever was, I'd say), and it just sits wrong with me that you have to avoid Serfdom and probably exit Theocracy in order to get the Cathedrals UHV. It would be nice if a feudal theocracy could get the UHV as well, something which I think is currently impossible. (Also, for historical reasons, I like there being a few monasteries. The Byzantine east was thick with them, and IIRC they were even a serious drain on imperial manpower.)

Really, I'd say that you've nailed down a really excellent modmod. The player has a lot of different kinds of challenges, and it's a real workout handling them all and
 
Thank you for the kind words, please rate the thread!

UP: What's your sense of the Greek fire power? I didn't find it helpful when running the Red Sea, and if you're going to try my "southern" strategy you will have eliminated the Arabs anyway. In your game, you mention, you lost a bunch of triremes, even though they had a GG promotion to to with the Greek fire. After you get Astronomy, Galleons don't have much to fear from Triremes. My sense is that it is not terribly useful, unless you want to change the promotions.
I really like the Greek Fire. I used the Collateral attack against the Arabs because they paired their Triremes. First Strikes are always a welcome aid in the day to day defense of fishing nets etc.
UB: I never built a Hippodrome. I was too busy with other things and didn't see much advantage in the happiness/culture bonuses. I know you'd prefer not to muck around too much, but what about a UB for the Byzantines that rewarded you for getting the three Silks?
I built a few Hippodromes and I find it to be quite strong and it will work even after you lose Anatolia if you can keep the Horse north of Constantinople.
Another "flavor" change, but one that might unbalance a well-balanced UHV, is to give the Byzantines Meditation and plant one or two Monasteries. Byzantium was a feudal theocracy (more so than Spain ever was, I'd say), and it just sits wrong with me that you have to avoid Serfdom and probably exit Theocracy in order to get the Cathedrals UHV. It would be nice if a feudal theocracy could get the UHV as well, something which I think is currently impossible. (Also, for historical reasons, I like there being a few monasteries. The Byzantine east was thick with them, and IIRC they were even a serious drain on imperial manpower.)
I don't think the Byzantines should get even more of a tech lead.
Wouldn't a feudal theocracy be able to get the Cathedral UHV after I moved the deadline to 1100AD?
 
(Besides Qin, the Khmer offered in one of my other test games.) Having Viceroyalty in effect might help with the Stability hits, especially if it turns out you can't find a way to get rid of the Curse of Turn 34.
I also noticed the Europeans offering their spontaneous vassalization; having viceroyalty from the start would have been very useful because:
- I was horribly scared of going into anarchy due to my poor stability
- I got divine right relatively late in the game
- Having viceroyalty and a few vassals will hurt your economy but it will be a blessing for stability (if I remember correctly you gain from the stability of you vassals too).

In one game China offered to become my vassal and I promptly accepted their offer. the silk condition became suddenly very easy (the only game I actually won so far in this mod).
 
Some comments from my personal experience with this mod

1. Arabs: I think the military situation with the Arabs is well balanced, though you might give some thought to eliminating some of the starting Camel Archers in the interest of balance when the human takes the Arab civilization in your mod.
I agree, the Arabs are a great challenge for the human player and a constant danger for all the game (until you finally crush them).
It's important to shorten you frontline fixing the problems in Egypt: if you kick the Arabs out of Egypt then it will be easier to have a solid defense in the southern front (Sinai-Jerusalem).
If the Arabs conquer it they will have a rather good production base else then Mecca (even if north Africa will steal some Arabs units from the main front).

Conquering Mesopotamia and Persia is a no go in the beginning, as Mxzs wrote it will be hell to keep safe such a extended territory.
On the other end, the Arabs will dilute their forces to conquer Persia and make themselves weaker.
My experience is a long attrition war with spikes of pitch battles.

The cities in north Africa (apart Egypt) are useful only to help to build the necessary base of temple for the cathedrals: after that you are better off without them.

My strategy was mainly at opening a land route to China, I see the sea route as too unreliable:
1. You have to get access to the Indian ocean (the Arabs are in between you and the sea)
2. You need to keep it open
3. You don't get a trade route until astronomy (various independents blocking the coastal way)

you can open the land route with a couple of Cataphracts and a worker (stolen from the Indians independent).
Often you can liberate Indian and Afghan towns to China (that you want to contact anyway).
 
Since the Turks are going to come anyway, what about just giving up those 2 (except for a route in the middle) Asia Minor cities to other Euros (if they'll accept it) except for strongholds like Jerusalem that won't flip? These cities can build missionaries and then troops to go to the east (for Shiraz, Delhi and Patna) which are worth much more, and if you build a settler from the start to build Baghdad (or something on the coast to be better), you'll definitely secure an ocean route that way. Stability will be an issue but if economy is good enough it should be OK.

In fact that sounds so fun I'm going to try the mod a second time (the first time was with the +1 gold UP).
 
Has anybody noted the irony that the Battle of Yarmouk in 636 was won by the Arabs because of strategy, not because of their numbers (as much as 10 times inferior to the Byzantines if one believes the ancient sources)? Here, the Byzantine Empire has to strategically withdraw from Jerusalem, sit on top of the forest and then kill the camel archers one by one before the longbows come from the south.

Also, where is all the gold that allows the AI to upgrade their spearman and archer to pikeman and longbow in Alexandria? 100 g is definite not enough.
 
1. No research initially, all gold, to upgrade the spearman and archer in Alexandria to pikeman and longbow.
2. All troops converge on the forest north of Jerusalem
3. Defensive troops (pikes, axes) at vulnerable spots. Iconium, Alexandretta and Hesperides can be left undefended for now.
4. Jerusalem whips a scout to slow down the progress of the camel archers. We retake it with no losses and amass all troops there, and 4 camel archers suicide on pikes. 3 Arabian longbows show up and we kill them. While 3 camels have gone to Egypt they have to come back and suffer the same fate.
5. After resting, Cairo is captured with no losses (you have all the necessary SUPERIOR troops to do it, including crossbows which you can't even build yet).
6. In the meantime, 2 catapults have converged on Jerusalem from Alexandria and Alexandretta. The counterattack begins and we capture Mekkah with the loss of 1 catapult (the other one hasn't even gotten there yet).
7. Note I've also captured Shiraz and Mekkah. I have philosophy already. I built a settler originally to go to Baghdad, now I'm just going to go to the Balkans instead (safer), maybe I'll do another settler later there. Hesperides and Tripolis are just sucky and don't build anything quickly.:)
Spoiler :
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I don't think the Byzantines should get even more of a tech lead.
Wouldn't a feudal theocracy be able to get the Cathedral UHV after I moved the deadline to 1100AD?

Well, it only takes you one or two turns to research Meditation (once you have you have your research rate turned up), and it's probably your first acquisition anyway. That's why I wouldn't think it a big deal to add it to the Byzantines' stockpile.

That said, you can get the Cathedral UHV with a feudal theocracy; I was skeptical, but just tried it and got it. So, never mind.

My strategy was mainly at opening a land route to China, I see the sea route as too unreliable:
1. You have to get access to the Indian ocean (the Arabs are in between you and the sea)
2. You need to keep it open
3. You don't get a trade route until astronomy (various independents blocking the coastal way)

you can open the land route with a couple of Cataphracts and a worker (stolen from the Indians independent).
Often you can liberate Indian and Afghan towns to China (that you want to contact anyway).

More proof that there's a lot of good flexibility to the mod. But what does liberating all those towns to China do to your stability?

1. No research initially, all gold, to upgrade the spearman and archer in Alexandria to pikeman and longbow.
2. All troops converge on the forest north of Jerusalem
3. Defensive troops (pikes, axes) at vulnerable spots. Iconium, Alexandretta and Hesperides can be left undefended for now.
4. Jerusalem whips a scout to slow down the progress of the camel archers. We retake it with no losses and amass all troops there, and 4 camel archers suicide on pikes. 3 Arabian longbows show up and we kill them. While 3 camels have gone to Egypt they have to come back and suffer the same fate.
5. After resting, Cairo is captured with no losses (you have all the necessary SUPERIOR troops to do it, including crossbows which you can't even build yet).
6. In the meantime, 2 catapults have converged on Jerusalem from Alexandria and Alexandretta. The counterattack begins and we capture Mekkah with the loss of 1 catapult (the other one hasn't even gotten there yet).
7. Note I've also captured Shiraz and Mekkah. I have philosophy already. I built a settler originally to go to Baghdad, now I'm just going to go to the Balkans instead (safer), maybe I'll do another settler later there. Hesperides and Tripolis are just sucky and don't build anything quickly.:)

Wow, Mekkah in 740! I eagerly await news of the rest of the game, especially stability reports--Turn 34 in particular.
 
Well, stability was my downfall. Somehow when the Euros appear my stability goes to the dumps. I founded Singidunum which is in the Greek stability map and I went back and didn't conquer Delhi or Patna, but it didn't make a difference. Twice in a row I was about to build my last cathedral when my empire collapsed.
I think I'll wait until a better balance with stability is found I'll not going to play on. (BTW, if you're using the Greek stability map, then all those African cities are just going to drain your stability even though they shouldn't be, as they were part of the Roman empire once. Maybe a better stability map is the Roman map.)
Never needed to build a trireme, Greek fire is a dud for me. Maybe you can extend Greek fire to bowmen (collateral damage) or give siege machines more umph (all siege machines start with 10% more collateral damage).
 
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