AnotherPacifist
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More support for use of Greek fire in siege weapons (wikipedia):
Modscenario: Playable Byzantines, 610AD.
- Thread starter TDK
- Start date
blizzrd
Micromanager
Collapse, not just a secession? Wow. Those were some impressive stability hits. I've never had a hit that sent me lower than barely Unstable, though that has been enough to provoke a key city or two into declaring independence. Were you doing a lot of whipping, and could that have made you especially vulnerable to a big Euro-hit? I confess to not knowing how much whipping might hurt, because I've avoided it at all costs in my Byz games.
I like the idea of adding Greek fire to the Siege weapons, if that is going to remain the Byz UP.
AnotherPacifist
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I think that little expansion towards Mekkah, Persia and the Persian Gulf sent me packing. And yes, I was whipping a lot, but I thought I made it up by turning up the culture dial for happiness (most cities built a hippodrome). If the stability hits from owning north Africa weren't so great I think I would have managed.
Rhye made the byzantines to be destroyed eventually. Thats why we can scratch our heads forever but unless the start is changed, such as adding more units and buildings, we will always be fighting a losing battle while playing byzantines. i understand u start it the way Rhye had meant it to be, but that means byzantium is meant to be destroyed or collapsed eventually.
i might be noob but i think the turn 34 stability hit is simply too ridiculous. I don't see any way of surviving it on monarch. i spammed courthouses but its still -30 by the time all the euro civs come in. Stability is definitely a major issue.
Another is the historical objectives. Sure, they are doable, but compare it with the other civ's UHVs and its obvious that its really difficult. And silk?! Oh that is so not byzantine
Lastly, the unique power is a good idea, but extremely not useful. i don't see ANY arabian triremes at all, let alone two of them on the same tile. i suggest giving siege weapons the same bonuses too. or change it to something that improves the stability.
And historically, arabians made a HUGE naval battle against constantinople the capital, but were sunken by greek fire. Thats a great reason to give naval units to both sides during the start. Lots of them.
i might be noob but i think the turn 34 stability hit is simply too ridiculous. I don't see any way of surviving it on monarch. i spammed courthouses but its still -30 by the time all the euro civs come in. Stability is definitely a major issue.
Another is the historical objectives. Sure, they are doable, but compare it with the other civ's UHVs and its obvious that its really difficult. And silk?! Oh that is so not byzantine
Lastly, the unique power is a good idea, but extremely not useful. i don't see ANY arabian triremes at all, let alone two of them on the same tile. i suggest giving siege weapons the same bonuses too. or change it to something that improves the stability.
And historically, arabians made a HUGE naval battle against constantinople the capital, but were sunken by greek fire. Thats a great reason to give naval units to both sides during the start. Lots of them.
Yeah, the turn 34 hit is the one thing that I'd like to see tuned. The Byzantines do degrade over time, and by the time you reach the Turk spawn you will be very Shaky, no matter what you do. But that one hit at turn 34 will kill a game instantly for me.
Silk is a placeholder for Constantinople's center as a trade emporium. There are quite a few UHVs that have that kind of "symbolic" rather than literal meaning. The UHV is hard, but I don't think it is much harder than a lot of others.
I've seen two Arab triremes in the Red Sea. But since it is possible to run the Byzantines without once fighting a naval battle, I also think that the "Greek fire" power should be extended if it is to be kept.
But where would they be based from? IIRC, that naval battle occurred several decades after the Arabs had conquered Egypt and could use its ports. Unless you give the Arabs Alexandria, which will slow down the Byzantine tech race enormously, I don't see how you can give them fleets at the start.
Hmmm that's a good point. I think some things should still be changed though, if not the UP or the UHVs, which is fine. But starting units/buildings has to be changed IMO as the Byzantines are MADE by Rhye to be unplayable. I made a WorldBuilder save myself to make it realistic (i hope). I dunno if its overpowered or underpowered but i think this would be more realistic of Byzantium at 600AD 
Here are some changes i would suggest:
1. Add City Dyrrachium (NW of Athenai), 1 Longbowman, harbor
2. Christianity spreaded to ALL Byzantine cities (or its heresy!!! the byzantines are pretty nasty fellows.)
3. Add aqueduct to capital (Constantinople had a awfully huge one)
4. Add christian temple to all cities (Byzantium is VERY religious)
5. Add five triremes and a galley to capital (wheres the byzantine navy?!)
6. Add 1 archer to Jerusalem (it cant be that badly defended. the christian shrine is there, and you give it just 1 archer at the start?? lol. besides, it will still fall at 620ad)
7. Add 3 workers to Iconium (the richest country in Europe in 600AD had only 2 workers -.-)
8. Add lighthouse to all coastal cities (you have GREAT lighthouse. you don't even have normal lighthouses?)
9. add 5 workboats (the byzantines were there for so long already and no one thought of working the fishes and clams -.-)
10. Add forge to Constantinople and Athens (i'm sure there's engineers in those cities by 600AD)
11. Constantinople size increased to 10 (realistic!)
12. Athens size increased to 5 (same!)
13. Added Oracle to Athens (redundant, but realistic)
14. Add Meditation, Philosophy (Byzantium learnt monasticism from the Egyptians very early at like 300AD i think, and philosophy... well the ancient Greeks own at it.)
15. Add Jewish temple to Jerusalem (-.-)
16. Add granaries to ALL cities (THE RICHEST COUNTRY IN EUROPE 600AD DOESN'T KNOW HOW TO STORE FOOD??!)
17. Add 6 triremes to Arabian capital (and hope someday they fight)
18. Add Odeon to Constantinople (the capital needs its artists)
Here's one that is not realistic:
Add courthouses to ALL cities!!! (JUST TO SURVIVE TURN 34!!!)
There, what i will think will be MORE realistic
try rushing divine right soon and the europeans will be begging to be your vassals. This way you can more better survive the turn 34 mysterious monster too. Land military wise it will still be the same, weak. But since you only take over at 600AD its impossible to prevent some land loss. not like you cant get them back anyway!!
Here are some changes i would suggest:
1. Add City Dyrrachium (NW of Athenai), 1 Longbowman, harbor
2. Christianity spreaded to ALL Byzantine cities (or its heresy!!! the byzantines are pretty nasty fellows.)
3. Add aqueduct to capital (Constantinople had a awfully huge one)
4. Add christian temple to all cities (Byzantium is VERY religious)
5. Add five triremes and a galley to capital (wheres the byzantine navy?!)
6. Add 1 archer to Jerusalem (it cant be that badly defended. the christian shrine is there, and you give it just 1 archer at the start?? lol. besides, it will still fall at 620ad)
7. Add 3 workers to Iconium (the richest country in Europe in 600AD had only 2 workers -.-)
8. Add lighthouse to all coastal cities (you have GREAT lighthouse. you don't even have normal lighthouses?)
9. add 5 workboats (the byzantines were there for so long already and no one thought of working the fishes and clams -.-)
10. Add forge to Constantinople and Athens (i'm sure there's engineers in those cities by 600AD)
11. Constantinople size increased to 10 (realistic!)
12. Athens size increased to 5 (same!)
13. Added Oracle to Athens (redundant, but realistic)
14. Add Meditation, Philosophy (Byzantium learnt monasticism from the Egyptians very early at like 300AD i think, and philosophy... well the ancient Greeks own at it.)
15. Add Jewish temple to Jerusalem (-.-)
16. Add granaries to ALL cities (THE RICHEST COUNTRY IN EUROPE 600AD DOESN'T KNOW HOW TO STORE FOOD??!)
17. Add 6 triremes to Arabian capital (and hope someday they fight)
18. Add Odeon to Constantinople (the capital needs its artists)
Here's one that is not realistic:
Add courthouses to ALL cities!!! (JUST TO SURVIVE TURN 34!!!)
There, what i will think will be MORE realistic
try rushing divine right soon and the europeans will be begging to be your vassals. This way you can more better survive the turn 34 mysterious monster too. Land military wise it will still be the same, weak. But since you only take over at 600AD its impossible to prevent some land loss. not like you cant get them back anyway!!Of course you can always madmod the modmod to suit your own tastes, and you should if that's what it takes to have fun. I've done a few tweaks myself, mostly just to test out some of the ideas I've tossed out in this thread.
I do think there are a couple of things to keep in mind about changes to this mod, especially if you are advising the creator on what he ought to do.
Playability: It's not supposed to be easy. Putting temples in all Byzantine cities renders the Cathedral UHV absurd. Leave aside the lack of challenge in building two Cathedrals by a late date. Since you start with the ability to build two Cathedrals, you no longer have the "interesting choices" in how to balance missionary/temple building with your other needs (including seeing off the Arabs), or in deciding what civics would give you Cathedrals most quickly and painlessly.
If the core cities start that large and powerful it also unbalances the tech race. Constantinopolis gushes lightbulbs/coin when it gets big, and it gets big very quickly even without worked seafood tiles. It gets so big so fast that I generally have to turn off growth before I've even built workboats.
Add Philosophy to their tech lead? Researching Philosophy is part of one of their UHV conditions.
Basically, if you make these changes to the Byzantines, you must come up with at least two new UHV conditions to replace Cathedrals and the Tech race.
Historical Accuracy: I like historical accuracy, and I've proposed adding Meditation and a few Monasteries, so I dig what you're saying. But I also think historical accuracy needs to take a back seat when it undercuts the challenge of play. Besides, if you want to be historically accurate, the mod should cede the Arabs Egypt, Africa, and Hierousalem at the start, and you should play your part by trading Alexandretta back and forth with them.
Besides, I'm not sure that the set up is that unfaithful to the Byzantine Empire c. 600. The empire had just emerged from the local equivalent of a "world war" against the Persians and was in an exhausted and debilitated state. (One reason the empire was such easy prey for the Arabs) They barely managed to hold them off, and then went into a decades-long process of rebuilding and strengthening themselves. This is the process you are asked to recreate. It makes sense that you start with a shambles.
That is something very important to remember about RFC, I think. In RFC you are not given a civilization that looks like the real-world analogue. You are given a set of materials and basically challenged to replicate the real world analogue, and improve upon it. If you wanted Egypt in the 3000 start to look like the real world, you'd start by giving them two cities, the Pyramids, Great Lighthouse, Great Library, and 5000 culture points. But no, you are told that you have to create these. It's the same with the Byzantines.
Specific reactions to specific changes you've described:
1. Add City Dyrrachium (NW of Athenai), 1 Longbowman, harbor: This is something easily done in-game.
2. Christianity spreaded to ALL Byzantine cities (or its heresy!!! the byzantines are pretty nasty fellows.): This is a UHV requirement. Why start with it?
3. Add aqueduct to capital (Constantinople had a awfully huge one): Easily added in-game.
4. Add christian temple to all cities (Byzantium is VERY religious): Another UHV goal.
5. Add five triremes and a galley to capital (wheres the byzantine navy?!): Easily added in-game. In fact, in a typical game, by the time I get Astronomy, I have one of the largest fleets in the world, and when I upgrade to Galleons no one can touch me.
6. Add 1 archer to Jerusalem (it cant be that badly defended. the christian shrine is there, and you give it just 1 archer at the start?? lol. besides, it will still fall at 620ad) I believe the Christian shrine is in Rome. But you can always build military units in-game.
7. Add 3 workers to Iconium (the richest country in Europe in 600AD had only 2 workers -.-): I've found that 2 workers (even when not in Serfdom) are quite sufficient to my needs over the course of the game.
8. Add lighthouse to all coastal cities (you have GREAT lighthouse. you don't even have normal lighthouses?): Can be added in-game, if they are worth the investment. What else are those trashy N. African cities going to build?
9. add 5 workboats (the byzantines were there for so long already and no one thought of working the fishes and clams -.-) Once the land around Athens is improved, it can churn out workboats every other turn. This is not hard to do in-game.
10. Add forge to Constantinople and Athens (i'm sure there's engineers in those cities by 600AD): I can see this as a possibility, though again, I've had no difficulty squeezing in a Forge build during my race to get Cathedrals up.
11. Constantinople size increased to 10 (realistic!) 12. Athens size increased to 5 (same!): If the small sizes bother you, pretend that the empire has just emerged from a catastrophic plague. (Which, in RFC gameplay, is almost certainly true.)
13. Added Oracle to Athens (redundant, but realistic): I could see this.
14. Add Meditation, Philosophy (Byzantium learnt monasticism from the Egyptians very early at like 300AD i think, and philosophy... well the ancient Greeks own at it.) Then you need to revise the tech UHV.
15. Add Jewish temple to Jerusalem (-.-): As a realistic "touch," I can see this. It wouldn't do much good, since happiness and culture are not problems in Hierousalem.
16. Add granaries to ALL cities (THE RICHEST COUNTRY IN EUROPE 600AD DOESN'T KNOW HOW TO STORE FOOD??!): Granaries are not very important to most of your cities, I think. Except for Constantinopolis, Athens, Alexandria and Cairo (when you add it), most of the cities don't need to grow, and will grow to their natural size pretty quickly. I think it should be player discretion as to when or whether his cities get granaries.
17. Add 6 triremes to Arabian capital (and hope someday they fight): Not realistic. Arabs did not have a powerful navy until after they conquered Egypt. If they conquer Egypt in your game, they will get one.
18. Add Odeon to Constantinople (the capital needs its artists): Maybe. But it would be a Theater, wouldn't it?
Add courthouses to ALL cities!!! (JUST TO SURVIVE TURN 34!!!): I deeply sympathize with the Turn 34 thing. But I've not found that courthouses help. If the hit is big enough, you will take crippling losses despite courthouses. If you don't take crippling losses, then it's because the hit was soft enough on its own.
I've done a few tweaks myself, mostly just to test out some of the ideas I've tossed out in this thread.I do think there are a couple of things to keep in mind about changes to this mod, especially if you are advising the creator on what he ought to do.
Playability: It's not supposed to be easy. Putting temples in all Byzantine cities renders the Cathedral UHV absurd. Leave aside the lack of challenge in building two Cathedrals by a late date. Since you start with the ability to build two Cathedrals, you no longer have the "interesting choices" in how to balance missionary/temple building with your other needs (including seeing off the Arabs), or in deciding what civics would give you Cathedrals most quickly and painlessly.
If the core cities start that large and powerful it also unbalances the tech race. Constantinopolis gushes lightbulbs/coin when it gets big, and it gets big very quickly even without worked seafood tiles. It gets so big so fast that I generally have to turn off growth before I've even built workboats.
Add Philosophy to their tech lead? Researching Philosophy is part of one of their UHV conditions.
Basically, if you make these changes to the Byzantines, you must come up with at least two new UHV conditions to replace Cathedrals and the Tech race.
Historical Accuracy: I like historical accuracy, and I've proposed adding Meditation and a few Monasteries, so I dig what you're saying. But I also think historical accuracy needs to take a back seat when it undercuts the challenge of play. Besides, if you want to be historically accurate, the mod should cede the Arabs Egypt, Africa, and Hierousalem at the start, and you should play your part by trading Alexandretta back and forth with them.
Besides, I'm not sure that the set up is that unfaithful to the Byzantine Empire c. 600. The empire had just emerged from the local equivalent of a "world war" against the Persians and was in an exhausted and debilitated state. (One reason the empire was such easy prey for the Arabs) They barely managed to hold them off, and then went into a decades-long process of rebuilding and strengthening themselves. This is the process you are asked to recreate. It makes sense that you start with a shambles.
That is something very important to remember about RFC, I think. In RFC you are not given a civilization that looks like the real-world analogue. You are given a set of materials and basically challenged to replicate the real world analogue, and improve upon it. If you wanted Egypt in the 3000 start to look like the real world, you'd start by giving them two cities, the Pyramids, Great Lighthouse, Great Library, and 5000 culture points. But no, you are told that you have to create these. It's the same with the Byzantines.
Specific reactions to specific changes you've described:
1. Add City Dyrrachium (NW of Athenai), 1 Longbowman, harbor: This is something easily done in-game.
2. Christianity spreaded to ALL Byzantine cities (or its heresy!!! the byzantines are pretty nasty fellows.): This is a UHV requirement. Why start with it?
3. Add aqueduct to capital (Constantinople had a awfully huge one): Easily added in-game.
4. Add christian temple to all cities (Byzantium is VERY religious): Another UHV goal.
5. Add five triremes and a galley to capital (wheres the byzantine navy?!): Easily added in-game. In fact, in a typical game, by the time I get Astronomy, I have one of the largest fleets in the world, and when I upgrade to Galleons no one can touch me.
6. Add 1 archer to Jerusalem (it cant be that badly defended. the christian shrine is there, and you give it just 1 archer at the start?? lol. besides, it will still fall at 620ad) I believe the Christian shrine is in Rome. But you can always build military units in-game.
7. Add 3 workers to Iconium (the richest country in Europe in 600AD had only 2 workers -.-): I've found that 2 workers (even when not in Serfdom) are quite sufficient to my needs over the course of the game.
8. Add lighthouse to all coastal cities (you have GREAT lighthouse. you don't even have normal lighthouses?): Can be added in-game, if they are worth the investment. What else are those trashy N. African cities going to build?
9. add 5 workboats (the byzantines were there for so long already and no one thought of working the fishes and clams -.-) Once the land around Athens is improved, it can churn out workboats every other turn. This is not hard to do in-game.
10. Add forge to Constantinople and Athens (i'm sure there's engineers in those cities by 600AD): I can see this as a possibility, though again, I've had no difficulty squeezing in a Forge build during my race to get Cathedrals up.
11. Constantinople size increased to 10 (realistic!) 12. Athens size increased to 5 (same!): If the small sizes bother you, pretend that the empire has just emerged from a catastrophic plague. (Which, in RFC gameplay, is almost certainly true.)
13. Added Oracle to Athens (redundant, but realistic): I could see this.
14. Add Meditation, Philosophy (Byzantium learnt monasticism from the Egyptians very early at like 300AD i think, and philosophy... well the ancient Greeks own at it.) Then you need to revise the tech UHV.
15. Add Jewish temple to Jerusalem (-.-): As a realistic "touch," I can see this. It wouldn't do much good, since happiness and culture are not problems in Hierousalem.
16. Add granaries to ALL cities (THE RICHEST COUNTRY IN EUROPE 600AD DOESN'T KNOW HOW TO STORE FOOD??!): Granaries are not very important to most of your cities, I think. Except for Constantinopolis, Athens, Alexandria and Cairo (when you add it), most of the cities don't need to grow, and will grow to their natural size pretty quickly. I think it should be player discretion as to when or whether his cities get granaries.
17. Add 6 triremes to Arabian capital (and hope someday they fight): Not realistic. Arabs did not have a powerful navy until after they conquered Egypt. If they conquer Egypt in your game, they will get one.
18. Add Odeon to Constantinople (the capital needs its artists): Maybe. But it would be a Theater, wouldn't it?
Add courthouses to ALL cities!!! (JUST TO SURVIVE TURN 34!!!): I deeply sympathize with the Turn 34 thing. But I've not found that courthouses help. If the hit is big enough, you will take crippling losses despite courthouses. If you don't take crippling losses, then it's because the hit was soft enough on its own.
Lol i think you got me wrong here. I'm not trying to play out history with those suggestions, i'm just trying to recreate realistic Byzantium at 600AD, thats all LOL. That's why some of those of what i think are "basics" (granaries, work boats) just needs to be there, IMHO haha. Of cos, Alexendretta doesn't need to be traded back and forth, because thats AFTER 600AD haha. And in 600AD Arabia doesn't have the North African lands yet, they're just about to get them lol.
The city NW of Athens really must be be added though. There's a lot of land in the slavs unworked, and its historically accurate too.
I propose giving the Arabs more camel archers though. Historically the Arabs have the strength to conquer (but not hold on to) ALL North African lands, Jerusalem and even Alexendretta.
If possible decrease the barbarians in North Africa. In my knowledge the barbs never were able to capture any North African cities, they fell to the Arabs.
OH and yes i realized, courthouses aren't much of a use. i realized using WORLDBUILDER (my love) to give them 2 great people to start a golden age during that time seems to be the only way to combat MR TURN 34 LOLL
Other than that, meditation really must be added
The city NW of Athens really must be be added though. There's a lot of land in the slavs unworked, and its historically accurate too.
I propose giving the Arabs more camel archers though. Historically the Arabs have the strength to conquer (but not hold on to) ALL North African lands, Jerusalem and even Alexendretta.
If possible decrease the barbarians in North Africa. In my knowledge the barbs never were able to capture any North African cities, they fell to the Arabs.
OH and yes i realized, courthouses aren't much of a use. i realized using WORLDBUILDER (my love) to give them 2 great people to start a golden age during that time seems to be the only way to combat MR TURN 34 LOLL
Other than that, meditation really must be added
blizzrd
Micromanager
This is why you are finding it difficult:
v1.984/1.484/1.184
CHANGES
Considerably less units flip during a war with a civ just spawned, but to counterbalance this, new civs units are semi-immune (that means, theres 50% chance that a new unit is added every time one is killed) the first 2 turns while they are in the capital plot (prevents the exploit of the early attack, that didnt trigger the unit flips)°°
AnotherPacifist
Deity
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- Sep 21, 2007
- Messages
- 4,878
Fakeshady, you might as well mod in victory if you're going to make all those modifications. The whole point is that history is not just a straight line. Oracles, lighthouses and statues get destroyed, and new civilizations overtake old ones. Besides, you're talking about the 600's AD which was a low point for both the Parthian and Byzantine Empires after their wars with each other, which gave the Arabs their chance.
What is unreal is that instability that comes around 900-1100AD, which could be said to be a golden age for the Byzantines. Starting with Basil the Macedonian and ending with the battle of Manzikert, the Byzantines were the most powerful force in the West.
What is unreal is that instability that comes around 900-1100AD, which could be said to be a golden age for the Byzantines. Starting with Basil the Macedonian and ending with the battle of Manzikert, the Byzantines were the most powerful force in the West.
UPDATED!
Mxzs, I also removed Alexander as a leader so you can play Arabs against Justinian. And I modified Rome so they won't have Justinian as a leader if they respawn.
I have found that the later starting civs don't load correctly if a human player, so I have made all but the Byzantines, Japanese, Vikings, Arabs and Chinese unplayable. Have any of you succesfully loaded a later civ?
The Byzantines only start with one city in the "red zone".AP said:
I have removed the stability hit from Russia and Germany spawn, and I just had a very interesting game with more flexibility because of better stability.AP said:
I had killed 6 triremes in my first game and lost 4 myself. You can also bring in the Greek Fire to later ages by upgrading your older ships. I you all want the power for siege weapons I will do it, but I made the UP weak because I felt the Byzantine UU and starting position was strong.FakeShady said:
Mxzs, I also removed Alexander as a leader so you can play Arabs against Justinian. And I modified Rome so they won't have Justinian as a leader if they respawn.
I have found that the later starting civs don't load correctly if a human player, so I have made all but the Byzantines, Japanese, Vikings, Arabs and Chinese unplayable. Have any of you succesfully loaded a later civ?
UPDATED!
I have removed the stability hit from Russia and Germany spawn, and I just had a very interesting game with more flexibility because of better stability.
Mxzs, I also removed Alexander as a leader so you can play Arabs against Justinian. And I modified Rome so they won't have Justinian as a leader if they respawn.
I have found that the later starting civs don't load correctly if a human player, so I have made all but the Byzantines, Japanese, Vikings, Arabs and Chinese unplayable. Have any of you succesfully loaded a later civ?
Cool beans! Will download and play later. I'm looking forward to seeing what happens with stability. I used WB to test out the idea of putting Silk in Samarkand and Patliputra (sp?). FWIW, it was maybe a little easier than the real game, but still quite difficult. I missed winning the Silk condition by 2 turns, mostly because I had to stage a collapse to fix the accumulated stability hits, and my empire, though highly unstable, just would. Not. Collapse. Even in the midst of civics-changing revolution. That tied my armies down, because I needed them close to home to retake key cities.
I noticed yesterday that later civs wouldn't load, and was going to give you a heads up about that. It's disappointing that you can't play the other civs, as it would be interesting to play Spain, France, Germany, and Russia with the Byzantines as a neighbor, but I can live.
FakeShady: What blizzrd said about the Turks. You have to prepare a GIGANTIC, economy-crushing army if you want to kill the Turks at spawn. Although with your modified scenario, that shouldn't be a problem for you.
Um, are you sure you fixed the stability thing? Because I downloaded the new version, and on my first game I took a -30 hit on turn 34.
I know from my games that the Curse of Turn 34 varies in intensity, so maybe on your games you thought you got rid of it, but actually only got some of the milder hits?
I know from my games that the Curse of Turn 34 varies in intensity, so maybe on your games you thought you got rid of it, but actually only got some of the milder hits?
I played up until turn 45 and my stability went to only -7 when it was lowest. I didn't whip much and got rid of the 2 african cities.
EDIT: I checked turn 34 and I went from +19 to +5, so a hit of 14. I noticed the Arabs became unstable between turn 33 and 34 and that might account for some of it. Have you guys noticed what is going on when it happens in your games?
Also, I whipped some temples in the 3 turns before 34, and I lost some units and that could have been bundled together, as the check(afaik) is only every 3 turns. I think these 2 things together could account for the stability hit, so I'm not sure something is wrong as such.
Attachments
lol those are just a few ******ed suggestions by me. i only hoped that one or two of 'em will get get into the actual game, thats why i listed so many, with my "reasoning" in brackets. Please don't "blacklist" me LOL. I'm just a noob
Another thing i realized. Other civs seem to have a bias against you during trade. civs wont even give me a 2000 beaker tech for my 4000 beaker one.(example) and it happens many times. maybe i'm the only one, tell me if you guys have the same problem too
Oh and i didn't mod in anything myself (except for 2 great people to combat MR TURN 34!!!!!) so i'm struggling to cope with the turks. It gets really ******ed when my cataphracts start teleporting to Crimea even after i crushed Sogut, any tips on that?? It lasts TEN ROUNDS.
oh and do you guys whip to get first UHV?
As for 2nd UHV, i got a grand total of 0 silks by 1400. Japan never trades, china is owned by mongol, who cant be traded or russia will be angry LOL. Any tips on that?
Another thing i realized. Other civs seem to have a bias against you during trade. civs wont even give me a 2000 beaker tech for my 4000 beaker one.(example) and it happens many times. maybe i'm the only one, tell me if you guys have the same problem too
Oh and i didn't mod in anything myself (except for 2 great people to combat MR TURN 34!!!!!) so i'm struggling to cope with the turks. It gets really ******ed when my cataphracts start teleporting to Crimea even after i crushed Sogut, any tips on that?? It lasts TEN ROUNDS.
oh and do you guys whip to get first UHV?
As for 2nd UHV, i got a grand total of 0 silks by 1400. Japan never trades, china is owned by mongol, who cant be traded or russia will be angry LOL. Any tips on that?
Another thing i realized. Other civs seem to have a bias against you during trade. civs wont even give me a 2000 beaker tech for my 4000 beaker one.(example) and it happens many times. maybe i'm the only one, tell me if you guys have the same problem too
That's not a Byzantine thing. Others will know what's going on, but after upgrading to the latest versions of BTS and RFC I've noticed that the AI demands your heart's blood as part of any tech trade. I usually tell them to go get naked with a goat, but that's just me.
That's the "defection" if you declare war on the Turks. It is part of the RFC design, to protect all new spawns and help level the playing field. Doesn't matter who you play: Babylonians vs. Persians, Romans vs. Spanish, Chinese vs. Mongols ...
I don't. I usually use Organized Religion to spam missionaries, and take Cairo early to get the Stone (which cuts Cathedral build time in half). I can almost always skate in just under the 1100 deadline without once having to raise the whip. (Because I don't whip, I change to Vassalage when I change to OR, so that I still get 2 XPs with military builds. Vassalage, IIRC, also helps with stability during the Middle Ages. It doesn't stop a nasty stability hit, though.)
As for 2nd UHV, i got a grand total of 0 silks by 1400. Japan never trades, china is owned by mongol, who cant be traded or russia will be angry LOL. Any tips on that?
You have to colonize/conquer for at least two of them. That's because once you trade for a resource, other civs don't see any point in giving you more of that resource. (Well, unless there is a corporation involved.) So, you need to trade for one Silk, and then you need to find a city to conquer that has another Silk (probably in Korea). You can also colonize the Philippines.
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