Module - Normal units as commanders

[WarKirby]

It's pretty silly to conclude that melee/archer etc are single men, when the unit graphics clearly show multiple people.

Personally, I treat the unitgraphics as a representation of the actual number of units. In a kind of exponential scale

1 unit = 1 man
2 units = 20 men
3 units = 60 men
4+ = a few hundred

 

[far_wanderer]

That right there is actually the reason I prefer the FF commanders... I've never been one to picture units as single people. Hell, I even think Assassins and Mages come in groups, or at least have a retinue.

That said... I still like this idea.

Yeah, I've never thought this was man-on-man combat. I like to think, for example, the Swordsman unit is also a unit of trained swordsmen, and the Lunatics (which show a lot of dudes) is a raving mob of psychos (hence the collateral damage to other units in the stack), and a Commander is him, plus his retinue and support staff.

Always considered mages to be single units, though.

Perhaps I should clarify: I don't think that when I send a Champion out to hold a fort that I've only sent one guy. The armies are still there, I just don't see them as specifically represented by units. That kind of mass warfare happens in the background, and the units only represent the interesting parts. It's the same way my cities supposedly have several million people but only twenty of them actually work.

It's pretty silly to conclude that melee/archer etc are single men, when the unit graphics clearly show multiple people.

Personally, I treat the unitgraphics as a representation of the actual number of units. In a kind of exponential scale

1 unit = 1 man
2 units = 20 men
3 units = 60 men
4+ = a few hundred

I agree that it's silly, but all of the other options are at least as silly and I like mine better. By your reasoning, when a Scout defends against three Goblins that one guy just killed more than a thousand people. I just figure the extra units, when they show up, are the companions.

 

[WarKirby]

I agree that it's silly, but all of the other options are at least as silly and I like mine better. By your reasoning, when a Scout defends against three Goblins that one guy just killed more than a thousand people. I just figure the extra units, when they show up, are the companions.

You have a point. I didn't think those numbers through too much. Maybe 4+ would be more like 80-100

But scouts aren't a one man unit, either. They usually have animals with them. I'[d generally assume a scout and an animal, represents a scouting party of 15-20, and their host of little animals. Wolves, panthers, etc.

 

[far_wanderer]

You have a point. I didn't think those numbers through too much. Maybe 4+ would be more like 80-100

But scouts aren't a one man unit, either. They usually have animals with them. I'[d generally assume a scout and an animal, represents a scouting party of 15-20, and their host of little animals. Wolves, panthers, etc.

Right, sorry about that. I forgot most civs have dual-unit scout graphics.
Items are the other big thing that makes me like a "one-unit" concept better.

 

[Karma]

Got the chance to play a few turns with this and I must say I love the idea.

Correct me if I'm wrong as I don't play Bannor too often - but isn't this essentially one of they're unique aspects? The Chain of Command module & Crusade are the first things that come to mind when I think of the Bannor.

Like I said, great idea and I'll definitely be keeping it (made my random game w/ Svarts alot of fun, gave those assassin parties more of a RPG-feel) but I think you should either expand upon the Bannor's to ensure they keep an advantage in this area or reduce what everyone else has access to. Perhaps giving Bannor double the minion limit and integrating the Chain of Command module promo's into this (maybe giving all Bannor units the +10% exp Corporal, etc automatically at certain levels).

Whatever you choose to do, keep it up. Fantastic idea.

 

[ricolikesrice]

Figure out what to do with the old commander system

as said in the FF+ thread (but maybe its also interesting for base Fall Further):

I d like to suggest that instead of this "Commander" promotion requiring a lvl 8 unit, it would only be available to the Great Commanders you get to spawn. (maybe some exceptions like Donal Lugh etc. and )

But unlike now, Great Commanders would work a bit similar to adventurers in that they can upgrade to anything but the arcane path (and at a 50% upgrade cost discount). Obviously they shouldnt get adventurers free xp gain however.

This way has the following benefits:

+no more issues with certain spells/promotions/effects not working on commanders as they wouldnt have a different unit_combat anymore (hippus commanders can finally catch up with their armies due to getting horselord, commando and being able to upgrade into mounted units just for example)
+unique commanders for many civs (vampire commanders, mimic commanders, etc. etc. etc.)
+commanders would be able to get "training" xp from buildings in cities, at least up to 10 xp.
+YOU decide whether you want "Warlords" (commanders that are powerful fighters themselves but dont buff their followers that much) or "Tacticans" (commanders that focus exlusively on buffing their followers and dont buy promotions other than for this purpose )

 

[far_wanderer]

as said in the FF+ thread (but maybe its also interesting for base Fall Further):

I d like to suggest that instead of this "Commander" promotion requiring a lvl 8 unit, it would only be available to the Great Commanders you get to spawn. (maybe some exceptions like Donal Lugh etc. and )

But unlike now, Great Commanders would work a bit similar to adventurers in that they can upgrade to anything but the arcane path (and at a 50% upgrade cost discount). Obviously they shouldnt get adventurers free xp gain however.

This way has the following benefits:

+no more issues with certain spells/promotions/effects not working on commanders as they wouldnt have a different unit_combat anymore (hippus commanders can finally catch up with their armies due to getting horselord, commando and being able to upgrade into mounted units just for example)
+unique commanders for many civs (vampire commanders, mimic commanders, etc. etc. etc.)
+commanders would be able to get "training" xp from buildings in cities, at least up to 10 xp.
+YOU decide whether you want "Warlords" (commanders that are powerful fighters themselves but dont buff their followers that much) or "Tacticans" (commanders that focus exlusively on buffing their followers and dont buy promotions other than for this purpose )

I like your upgrade idea, although it will be an "and" rather than an "instead" . With an alternate route, I'll probably increase the level requirement to 10 though.

 

[far_wanderer]

Version 2 is now up in the first post.

 

[Valkrionn]

Tossed a link to it in the FFPlus Download thread.

 

[ricolikesrice]

woohoo, nice job far_wander, will try it out later. upgradable great commanders gonna be a blast to play.

 

[fothal]

I like the idea of allowing normal units to be promoted to commanders!

Any chance of getting this mod updated for RiFE 1.12? (FFPlus latest version)

Thanks!

 

[Valkrionn]

He's already stated that he plans to, but is unable to atm... On a trip I believe?

 

[far_wanderer]

"on a trip" doesn't begin to describe everything that went wrong. But I'm back now, and after a few tries managed to get RiFE downloaded (hence my sudden entry into the discussion on animals ).
Compatible version is up now. Turns out you wouldn't have needed to wait for me - the only compatibility issue was that the schema file was outdated.

 

[Valkrionn]

I'll update the post.

 

[Fluesterwitz]

Sounds great, any chance of version(s) for Orbis/Lena?

 

[Valkrionn]

Probably not, as Orbis and LENA don't have the Commander system from FF.

 

[xienwolf]

Aww, you could TOTALLY do the whole system in a module though!

 

[Wafflecopper]

How do great commanders work in FF? I've been unable to find anything explaining what they do in the pedia or in the stickied threads.

 

[Cyrusfan]

You get either of the options to raise an army or build a building that helps you build units faster (which is unnecessary if you have an organized leader) like in FfH, but you get to keep the great commander. You can then assign units in the same tile to the gc and as they kill things, he gets xp and can get promos that improve their units, so long as they stay in range (which I think is the same tile, without additional promos).

 

[nutranurse]

Will this work for v.1.20?