Monotheism vs Polytheism

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

A bunch of atoms can create thinking beings not to talk about religion

It is like we are living in a more "advanced" form of minecraft

Change the laws of physics, change the building blocks, change everything and you will be left with a complete different universe.

Are it unbelievable that everything we can make up can actually exist in its own world, yes for us it is due to the rules in our universe. But if other realities exist with completely different rules, when it probably becomes unbelievable to think that something can not exist instead. Maybe there would be some fundamental rules all realties need to share

We are just a bunch of atoms that sometimes seems to think we are something special in a much bigger world Obviously the universe can think atleast through humans.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Jesus did say that he thinks religion should be a personal thing though, I believe.

As I recall, he meant that it should be private and quiet, and not paraded publicly in the street. So the massive televangelists' events or prayer tents or public demonstrations would be things that wouldn't have met with his approval.

 

[Birdjaguar]

As you know I'm not a believer. However, I am not a strong atheist (i.e. I do not say "God definitely doesn't exist") but am instead a weak atheist (i.e. I say "I do not believe that God(s) exist")

So I do not believe that such things exist, but I do not discount it outright. It's always made sense to me that if God exists, then he likely does not care at all about any sort of political or leadership structures we have set up i.e. organized religion. If God exists, and he even cares about us, organized religions are going to be a joke to him/her/it. It's just structures humans have built up over the centuries, initially for purposes of control. IMO without them religions would fade from the mainstream, so obviously they want to cling on to the organized structures they have set up so carefully over such long periods of time. If God(s) exist(s) though, whatever "true" religion exists out there, will stand on its own legs, without the need of an organized structure.

So whether God(s) exist(s) or not, I also am a big supporter of the "no more organized religion" philosophy. Obviously if people choose to join together and form such groups, as they do, then they should be allowed to do so. I do not wish to strip people of this right. But I think overall humanity would be in a much better place if these structures went away and religion became a purely personal pursuit, devoid of any organized structure.

Organized religions and churches (of whatever type) are products of people. I don't think they began with a mission to control, rather they began as a way to organize and support. As they grew in size and power power creep worked its way into things. What is key to individual belief is how one characterizes the god one chooses. The OT bearded guy on a throne of gold is one characterization as is the Sufi notion of The Friend.

Spoiler :

Laughing At the Word Two

Spoiler :

Only
That Illumined
One
Who keeps
Seducing the formless into form
Had the charm to win my
Heart.
Only a Perfect One
Who is always
Laughing at the word
Two
Can make you know
Of
Love.
From: 'The Gift'
Translated by Daniel Ladinsky

And then there is the "emptiness" of Buddhism and Avataric manifestations of Vishnu from Hinduism. Westerners are caught up in an anthropomorphic figure when there are lots of choices. The rise of rise of non affiliated believers is freeing up how today's believers think about god and his/her/its interaction with the physical world. Religious change takes time. It took a few hundred years for the Catholic Church to organize itself; it took another 1000+ years for the Reformation; and now 500 years after that, we have a slow collapse of big churches into smaller churches and individual religion. Don't hold your breadth, rather seek what makes sense to you whether god is included or not.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Meh, let other people found a religion. Then conquer it.

A lot of times people are strangely slow to philosophy and some great scientist will help you learn about Taoism though. As a rule of thumb, you should probably not officially endorse it even though allowing the people their places of worship might help your science in the short term.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

A lot of times people are strangely slow to philosophy and some great scientist will help you learn about Taoism though. As a rule of thumb, you should probably not officially endorse it even though allowing the people their places of worship might help your science in the short term.

Pacifism means great people and great people mean greatness to your civilization Give and take you know

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Pacifism means great people and great people mean greatness to your civilization Give and take you know

It's certainly helpful in between bouts purging the filthy heretics/heathens or convincing people that working longer hours is the right thing to do!

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

It's certainly helpful in between bouts purging the filthy heretics/heathens or convincing people that working longer hours is the right thing to do!

Good old paci, org and theo. Friends and enemies. All need a religion but only one can be active at a time TMIT you have teached me a alot with you youtube videos and your forum posts. I wish I had your courage and did my own videos someday but Im not sure how to find that courage

 

[Lexicus]

Show me where I said that.

I didn't say you said it, I said your words can be read that way. Which I still think is true.

 

[warpus]

Organized religions and churches (of whatever type) are products of people. I don't think they began with a mission to control, rather they began as a way to organize and support.

From what I remember there was a long chain of rulers of Egypt (and other early peoples and empires) who set themselves up as God-emperors - using their claims of being God to rule their people. Shamans in some native America tribes and other types of rules around the world in early times used similar dynamics to claim a place at the top of the political food chain. That's what I was referring to, not later organized religions such as Christianity or Islam.

 

[timtofly]

That would be the difference between actively controlling the situation, and humans waking up 2000 years later, still practicing the same religious thought, because it is now culture. Whether a group is claiming some new revelation, or going back to the basics, both would be considered some form of control mechanism, instead of something coming out of each individual who seek similiar minded people for social relationship purposes. Religion is not a person trying to re-invent itself. Although if God was manipulating humans, how would anyone know the difference?

 

[warpus]

Although if God was manipulating humans, how would anyone know the difference?

Well.. If God was maniuplating humans to embrace one religion over another, then everybody on the planet would be following the same religion. So we'd know, unless God was incompetent or not all-powerful.

 

[Broken_Erika]

Well.. If God was maniuplating humans to embrace one religion over another, then everybody on the planet would be following the same religion. So we'd know, unless God was incompetent or not all-powerful.

Unless God is has multiple personality disorder.....

 

[Ryika]

Maybe Earth is a Reality TV Show created by God and Religions are one of the methods that he used to create action.

 

[Birdjaguar]

That would be the difference between actively controlling the situation, and humans waking up 2000 years later, still practicing the same religious thought, because it is now culture. Whether a group is claiming some new revelation, or going back to the basics, both would be considered some form of control mechanism, instead of something coming out of each individual who seek similiar minded people for social relationship purposes. Religion is not a person trying to re-invent itself. Although if God was manipulating humans, how would anyone know the difference?

Well.. If God was maniuplating humans to embrace one religion over another, then everybody on the planet would be following the same religion. So we'd know, unless God was incompetent or not all-powerful.

Unless God is has multiple personality disorder.....

Maybe Earth is a Reality TV Show created by God and Religions are one of the methods that he used to create action.

It all depends upon how one characterizes god. All of the anthropomorphic gods are pretty much failures in terms of of anything that benefits people as a group. Those gods, like Zeus, Odin, and Tengri need to be put to rest.

 

[warpus]

It all depends upon how one characterizes god. All of the anthropomorphic gods are pretty much failures in terms of of anything that benefits people as a group. Those gods, like Zeus, Odin, and Tengri need to be put to rest.

Why just all those gods, and not all gods?

 

[Birdjaguar]

"...gods like..." All the ones who act like bad humans. On these and other forums that is how most people seem to characterize god as they point out god's shortcomings. Such gods are an easy target.
Even Islam moved beyond an anthropomorphic image of god:

=Wiki]In Islamic theology, God (Arabic: الله‎, translit. Allāh‎, contraction of الْإِلٰه al-ilāh, lit. "the god") is the all-powerful and all-knowing creator, sustainer, ordainer and judge of everything in existence.[1][2]

Islam emphasizes that God is strictly singular (tawḥīd ): unique (wāḥid ), inherently One (aḥad ),[3] also all-merciful and omnipotent.[4] According to Islamic teachings, beyond the Throne[5] and according to the Quran, "No vision can grasp him, but His grasp is over all vision: He is above all comprehension, yet is acquainted with all things."[6]

The Sufis push it further:

According to Sufism, the divine being is manifested in different forms. Yet these forms are not God themselves, but they originate from God and God is immanent in his creation.[53] God is synonymous with The Pure Reality.[54]

It is simpler and more in line with Hinduism and Buddhism without the underlying complexity.

As our knowledge of the world evolves and changes, how we think about it changes. Just like we have adapted to germs, parasites, atoms, quantum particles, tectonic plates, light years and gravity waves, how we think about god is also changing. River sprites and Thor, like earth, air fire and water and the four humors, have lost their places. As people think about god differently, religions will also have to change or lose their following. That will continue happen slowly. If you look at religion 50 years ago, 100 years ago, today, it is very different. Technology changes fast, but not everything changes that fast.

 

[warpus]

As people think about god differently, religions will also have to change or lose their following.

Like I observed earlier in the thread, those religions that did survive acceptance in the mainstream ended up defining their Gods as things that can't be disproved. Whether that was the exact goal or not, that is what happened.

I think it's also worth pointing out, that if God(s) exist he/she/it/they aren't bound by our definitions. If such an entity exists, our religions re-defining themselves to remain relevant have 0 influence on what this god is and how it is defined.

 

[Birdjaguar]

You are 100% right. If god exists, how we define god does not change what it's reality actually is. But we are eliminating some of the choices as being unlikely.

 

[timtofly]

Well.. If God was maniuplating humans to embrace one religion over another, then everybody on the planet would be following the same religion. So we'd know, unless God was incompetent or not all-powerful.

If you take the pattern of Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, the Jews, the 12 disciples, all those who had a personal interaction with God, was that manipulation? Were they given a choice to do their own thing? What religion were they being manipulated into?

You are 100% right. If god exists, how we define god does not change what it's reality actually is. But we are eliminating some of the choices as being unlikely.

How do we even know how to define God? Would not religions form out of not knowing God, as opposed to knowing God, and forming a religion. Religion is a choice because it is the diversity of humanity and each person attempting to define God with very little to go on.

That is the point of fabrication that I am not seeing. God as a singular being was not established by humans, but God was defined as the single source, even by the Greeks. Fabricating God as every other choice or anthropomorphic creation, is and was the attempts of humans that have been dropped or changed by humans over the years. It has not gone from polytheism to monotheism. It has always been one God with the diversity of the the human experience attempting to explain God.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

That's quite clearly your own personal opinion and nothing more.