Moral Dilemma: Killing One Innocent Person To Save Five Innocent People

Would you kill one innocent person in order to save five innocent people?


  • Total voters
    56

Defiant47

Peace Sentinel
Joined
Jan 2, 2007
Messages
5,603
Location
Canada
Greetings,

I wish to poll our delightful forum on this moral dilemma. The (personally) counter-intuitive responses I've seen in other threads about this issue have surprised me, so I wanted to make a clean poll about it.

Assumptions:
- These people whose lives are at stake are all equally "innocent" (have an equal right to life under your standard or any standard of right to life)
- There is no personal threat to your well-being (besides any psychological trauma from killing an innocent person)
- If you do nothing, five innocent people will die. If you kill one innocent person, nobody will die other than the one innocent person. The long-term considerations for both cases are irrelevant and/or equal.
- The probabilities and certainties of the situation are perfectly clear and known. For example, this isn't a hostage situation where you have to kill one so that the rest go free (you wouldn't know that the hostage-takers wouldn't kill everyone anyways). This is a magical hypothetical where you know for certain the results of your action (or inaction) to be as they are currently laid out.
- ADDENDUM: This is a choice that is forced upon you (rather than one you seek out). Please disregard the idea that choosing the morally obligatory option would imply that each one of us should go out and start killing people whose deaths would save a lot of lives.

The context of the problem has been left intentionally vague and undefined. The list of assumptions is not exhaustive; please try to stay within the "spirit" of the problem.

Would you kill one innocent person in order to save five?

If you believe that it is morally obligatory, then any person put into this position SHOULD kill the one innocent person to save the five. A person who would do this would be considered good. A person who would refrain from doing this would be considered bad (alternatively under Kantian ethics, if the person wanted to do good by fulfilling this moral obligation, but couldn't under psychological imperatives, they could still be considered good, but let's not get into semantics).

Example: If you were to activate some sort of demolishing machine, and shortly afterward realize that an innocent child is in imminent danger from being killed by the activated machine, most would say that you are morally obligated to stop the machine.

If you believe that it is morally permissive, then any person put into this position would have the OPTION to kill one innocent person to save the five. A person who would do this would be considered good. A person who would refrain from doing this would NOT be considered bad (note that they wouldn't be considered good either). It would be their option, but they wouldn't be morally obligated to do either way.

Example: If you were to donate funds to organizations that help feed starving children in Africa, you would be considered a good person... but you wouldn't be a bad person if you didn't.

If you believe that it is morally abhorrent, then any person put into this position SHOULD NOT kill one innocent person to save the five. A person who would do this (kill the one person) would be considered bad. A person who would refrain from doing this could be considered good or neutral.

Example: If you were to hire a hit-man to kill a neighbour because the neighbour's clean front lawn outshines yours, you would be considered a bad person.

Note that I've placed forward a non-exhaustive list of moral options. This is how I want it to be. Certain options such as, for example, "morally irrelevant" (in which you value human life to be worthless) are disregarded.

So? How about it, OT?
 
Drop the portcullis to keep the werewolf out but don't push a guy off the castle.
 
If you kill one person, the other five may condemn you for your action, not realising that they would be dead if it wasnt for your actions because you killed someone close to them. There's so much that can factor in a situation but *I* think the best thing to do would be to kill one person in order to save 5, if they were all "equal".

Isnt there a law that requires you to save someone if you are able to?
 
Is there an option to kill all 6?
 
It is morally abhorrent, but under the right circumstances, I still might "support" the decision to kill the 1 innocent to save the lives of 5 innocents.
 
I wouldn't do the deed.

First of all, the moral burden of killing the 5 people would lie on the person carrying out the executions, and not on me.

Second of all, I couldn't kill an innocent human being in cold blood. Even if I could, it would haunt me till my death. I would not do it.
 
I think people should prepare themselves for all kinds of trauma instead of saying "I'd never do that because I couldn't!". But I think the real problem is how people judge you if you can kill an innocent person without worrying much about it. I want to be able to kill without (or with minimal) remorse, because you never know when it really might come in handy. It's better to admit that "it might happen" instead of "I couldn't do it".
 
Greetings,

I wish to poll our delightful forum on this moral dilemma. The (personally) counter-intuitive responses I've seen in other threads about this issue have surprised me, so I wanted to make a clean poll about it.

Assumptions:
- These people whose lives are at stake are all equally "innocent" (have an equal right to life under your standard or any standard of right to life)
- There is no personal threat to your well-being (besides any psychological trauma from killing an innocent person)
- If you do nothing, five innocent people will die. If you kill one innocent person, nobody will die other than the one innocent person. The long-term considerations for both cases are irrelevant and/or equal.
- The probabilities and certainties of the situation are perfectly clear and known. For example, this isn't a hostage situation where you have to kill one so that the rest go free (you wouldn't know that the hostage-takers wouldn't kill everyone anyways). This is a magical hypothetical where you know for certain the results of your action (or inaction) to be as they are currently laid out.
- ADDENDUM: This is a choice that is forced upon you (rather than one you seek out). Please disregard the idea that choosing the morally obligatory option would imply that each one of us should go out and start killing people whose deaths would save a lot of lives.

The context of the problem has been left intentionally vague and undefined. The list of assumptions is not exhaustive; please try to stay within the "spirit" of the problem.

Would you kill one innocent person in order to save five?

If you believe that it is morally obligatory, then any person put into this position SHOULD kill the one innocent person to save the five. A person who would do this would be considered good. A person who would refrain from doing this would be considered bad (alternatively under Kantian ethics, if the person wanted to do good by fulfilling this moral obligation, but couldn't under psychological imperatives, they could still be considered good, but let's not get into semantics).

Example: If you were to activate some sort of demolishing machine, and shortly afterward realize that an innocent child is in imminent danger from being killed by the activated machine, most would say that you are morally obligated to stop the machine.

If you believe that it is morally permissive, then any person put into this position would have the OPTION to kill one innocent person to save the five. A person who would do this would be considered good. A person who would refrain from doing this would NOT be considered bad (note that they wouldn't be considered good either). It would be their option, but they wouldn't be morally obligated to do either way.

Example: If you were to donate funds to organizations that help feed starving children in Africa, you would be considered a good person... but you wouldn't be a bad person if you didn't.

If you believe that it is morally abhorrent, then any person put into this position SHOULD NOT kill one innocent person to save the five. A person who would do this (kill the one person) would be considered bad. A person who would refrain from doing this could be considered good or neutral.

Example: If you were to hire a hit-man to kill a neighbour because the neighbour's clean front lawn outshines yours, you would be considered a bad person.

Note that I've placed forward a non-exhaustive list of moral options. This is how I want it to be. Certain options such as, for example, "morally irrelevant" (in which you value human life to be worthless) are disregarded.

So? How about it, OT?

I understand some options are left out such as human life being worthless, but some things are still left out, realistic options. You could think both were neutral.

First off, I am highly in favor of killing the guilty to save the innocent. I was in favor of invading Iraq and killing the soldiers necessary to free Iraq, to stop Saddam's tyranny.

However, its not really the soldiers' fault, they don't have a choice, but in a sense...

Depends on exactly how the situation was set up, but I'll explain it in this way, a wizard says that unless you kill one person he'll kill five.

Avoiding the legal consequences, I probably think it is BETTER to kill the man, but I'm not really sure. I'd vote permissible though, it would be understandable that someone would dislike this option.

I dunno.
 
You don't have the right to make the call to kill the one.

I agree, but, according to this scenario, you'd also be guilty for the five, even if you didn't carry out the deed.

I could spend an hour attempting to explain it, but I'll just say, in the described situation, via magical force, you are responsible either way, so I think killing the one is better, though its not EVIL not to.

However, in a more realistic situation, a terrorist says either you kill one American or I'll kill five, assuming you don't know who the terrorist is, its an annonymous phone call (Assuming, hypothetically, you know he won't touch the five if you kill the one) I'd say leave him to killing the five.

I will say, however, its a tough question, and I'm willing to change my views on it if you convince me otherwise.
 
I agree, but, according to this scenario, you'd also be guilty for the five, even if you didn't carry out the deed.

I could spend an hour attempting to explain it, but I'll just say, in the described situation, via magical force, you are responsible either way, so I think killing the one is better, though its not EVIL not to.

However, in a more realistic situation, a terrorist says either you kill one American or I'll kill five, assuming you don't know who the terrorist is, its an annonymous phone call (Assuming, hypothetically, you know he won't touch the five if you kill the one) I'd say leave him to killing the five.

I will say, however, its a tough question, and I'm willing to change my views on it if you convince me otherwise.

When the poop did he hint that they're American?
 
I think people should prepare themselves for all kinds of trauma instead of saying "I'd never do that because I couldn't!". But I think the real problem is how people judge you if you can kill an innocent person without worrying much about it. I want to be able to kill without (or with minimal) remorse, because you never know when it really might come in handy. It's better to admit that "it might happen" instead of "I couldn't do it".

Oh, I could do it, but it'd negatively affect me for the rest of my life, so I wouldn't.

Besides, you couldn't guilttrip me into thinking that I was responsible for the lives of those 5, so I would give a big middle finger to the orchestrator of this scenario and walk away.
 
- The probabilities and certainties of the situation are perfectly clear and known. For example, this isn't a hostage situation where you have to kill one so that the rest go free (you wouldn't know that the hostage-takers wouldn't kill everyone anyways). This is a magical hypothetical where you know for certain the results of your action (or inaction) to be as they are currently laid out.
I'm not sure if that's a coherent assumption. For any hypothetical knowledge you could come up with, I could come up with the counter hypothetical that this alleged knowledge is believed but in fact mistaken.
 
I think you're making a mistake in how you consider the dilemma Dom. In both examples you gave, you have the one threatening the five, and that's not part of the problem.

This isn't a case of one bad guy going to kill five innocents. They're ALL innocent, so there's no "deserves to die" people involved, no bad guys threatening others, no people who need protection or saving.

The question is basically does one value number of lives, and so would have the one die, OR does one care about active vs passive involvement, and so would let five die because you don't want to purposefully kill someone.

Let me try to provide an example.

You are in a room with six people, all securely tied to their seats and wired with electrical cables. In ten seconds, a current is going to flow through the cables and kill five of the people. However, there is a switch in the room that will allow you to direct the current to only kill one person, a person who will not be killed if you do nothing.

You do not have time to go for help, or call anyone, or try to free them. The electrical current is set to fry five people, and if you do nothing, that will happen in ten seconds. The people are all unconscious and cannot help you in any way. You don't know anything about the people or why they are trapped like this.

Do you kill the one, because you must take action, or do you let the five die, because you must not take action?
 
I think you're making a mistake in how you consider the dilemma Dom. In both examples you gave, you have the one threatening the five, and that's not part of the problem.

This isn't a case of one bad guy going to kill five innocents. They're ALL innocent, so there's no "deserves to die" people involved, no bad guys threatening others, no people who need protection or saving.

The question is basically does one value number of lives, and so would have the one die, OR does one care about active vs passive involvement, and so would let five die because you don't want to purposefully kill someone.

Let me try to provide an example.

You are in a room with six people, all securely tied to their seats and wired with electrical cables. In ten seconds, a current is going to flow through the cables and kill five of the people. However, there is a switch in the room that will allow you to direct the current to only kill one person, a person who will not be killed if you do nothing.

You do not have time to go for help, or call anyone, or try to free them. The electrical current is set to fry five people, and if you do nothing, that will happen in ten seconds. The people are all unconscious and cannot help you in any way. You don't know anything about the people or why they are trapped like this.

Do you kill the one, because you must take action, or do you let the five die, because you must not take action?

I'd kill the one in that case.

But, if you slightly changed the explanation, it might change. It all depends. In that case, it wouldn't feel like killing anyone, but a net saving of four lives.

But, slightly change the explanation, and it might feel like murder. So, well, I say permissible still.
 
Back
Top Bottom