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More Civilizations' Macedonian Empire for VP

Discussion in 'Mods Repository' started by pineappledan, Dec 9, 2018.

  1. pineappledan

    pineappledan Warlord

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    PREFACE: The art and code for this mod is the work of Pouakai, Sukritact, Janboruta, and many more, as part of their larger Greek Split mod. The use of these assets has been granted by Pouakai and Janboruta, but approval from Sukritact is still pending. Should Sukritact, or any of the other original mod creators, withdraw their consent, I will immediately pull this from the forum.


    Macedonia, led by Alexander the Great
    Does not require original mod
    Download here

    Leader: Alexander (top left)
    UA: Hellenistic Age
    • +1 Aura Range to your :c5capital: Great General. Can only have 1 :c5capital:Great General at a time. Cannot Expend GGenerals to build Citadels.
    • Whenever a new :c5capital: Great General would be born, your current :c5capital: Great General gains +10% aura Strength and a large sum of :c5goldenage: Golden Age Points instead
      • Max of +50% Aura Strength
      • 400 :c5goldenage: GAP, scaling with Era and Game Speed
    • Cities generate +1 :c5culture: Culture every turn During :c5goldenage: Golden Ages, scaling with number of occupied cities.
      • Base 1:c5culture:, plus 1:c5culture: Culture in all cities for every annexed/puppeted city on empire

    Pericles (top right) replaces Alex as leader of "Greece". Greek UA renamed to "Delian League", but otherwise Greece is identical


    UU1: Hetairoi (Horseman Replacement)
    Unlocked at Military Theory
    90:c5production: production
    16:c5strength:CS (up from 14:c5strength:)
    5 :c5moves: Moves (up from 4:c5moves:)
    Great Generals I
    Requires Horses


    UB: Basilikoi Paides (Barracks)
    Unlocked at Military Theory
    110:c5production: production
    1:c5gold: Maintenance
    +1:c5science:, +2:c5production:, +1:c5culture:
    +1:c5capital: Great General Point per turn
    +20 XP to military units trained in this City

    +1 Supply Cap
    When you construct a Unit in this City, gain 25% of :c5production:Production as :c5culture: Culture.
    -1 :c5unhappy: unhappiness from Distress
    Spoiler 3/4UC :


    UU2: Phalangitae (Pikeman replacement)
    Unlocked at Drama & Poetry (1 Tech earlier)
    120:c5production: (down from 135)
    19:c5strength:CS (up from 17)
    2 :c5moves:Moves
    Hammer and Anvil (-1 :c5moves: Movement to Enemy Units that begin their turn adjacent to this unit. Aura effect stacks.)
    +50% vs Mounted


    UCU: Strategos (Unique Civilian Unit)
    2 :c5moves: Moves
    Medic I promotions
    Is born in a City on completion of a Courthouse
    Can be expended to construct Katoikia
    +2:c5war: Military Supply and +2%:c5production: Production on Empire when Expended

    UI: Katoikia (DJS Henninger's Oriental Fort)
    +50% :c5strength: Defense for unit on tile
    Improves Strategic Resources
    Claims Adjacent tiles on Construction
    2:c5production:4:c5culture:
    +1:c5production: and +1:c5science: at Steel
    +2:c5science: at Chemistry
    +1:c5production: and +1:c5culture: at Replaceable Parts
    +1:c5production: and +1:c5culture: at Military Science
    +1:c5production: at Mobile Tactics
    +1:c5science: at Stealth
    Units Stationed in a Katoikia gain +2 XP every turn during :c5goldenage: Golden Ages.

    Credits:
    • Pouakai: Base Code.
    • Janboruta: Art (All icons).
    • JFD: Lua.
    • Tomatekh: Lua (E&D).
    • Wolfdog: Unit Model.
    • einayim: Text (Civilopedias).
    • DarthKyofu: Text (Civilopedias), TSL Values.
    • GPuzzle: Lua.
    • CharlatanAlley: Dawn of Man voiceover
    • Vangelis: Alexander War Peace & Theme ("Titans" & "the Drums of Gaugamela")
    • Sukritact: Delian League (Greece) Map
    • DJS Henninger, Walter Hawkwood, and Anno 1404: Katoikia model and icon
    • Danrell: Stratego Unit Model
    • Pineappledan: VP compatibility
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2019 at 7:31 PM
  2. pineappledan

    pineappledan Warlord

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  3. IcyAngel

    IcyAngel Chieftain

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    Hey,

    Unfortunately, the UB doesn't seem to grant exp. (I am playing with 3/4UC, Wonders Expanded, Unique City-States and the 11-21-3 version.)

    On another note, the balance seems solid. The enhanced GG aura carries a ton of water for the mediocre UUs.
     
  4. pineappledan

    pineappledan Warlord

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    Basilikoi now gives XP (there was an error in the sql)

    Resolved the issue with the Kill() command - It was working when generals were spawned via GPP generation or spawned using firetuner, but spawning a GGeneral with combat caused a CTD. This has been resolved.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2018
    IcyAngel likes this.
  5. pineappledan

    pineappledan Warlord

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  6. IcyAngel

    IcyAngel Chieftain

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    I was thinking that getting a free GG on researching Military Theory would help the UA take off a lot faster.
     
  7. t99KJwEd

    t99KJwEd Chieftain

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    Phalangitae aren't working for me - they have a 'pedia entry and they're in the list of unlocks under Drama & Poetry, but they're unbuildable. There's no tech tree icon and I still get regular Pikes under Steel. The other 3 components work fine. v38.0 of 3/4UC, VP components 1-6, no other mods.

    From limited experience so far I feel the early game balance isn't bad. Hetairoi aren't completely crazy but they're good enough to flatten Spearmen and bully CSs all day. A building with +1:c5science: +2:c5production: +1:c5culture: at the point you otherwise only have Wells for production is pretty nice. Seems justifiable to go Well -> Basilikoi first in new cities. The GG element is great. If anything my issue is that you basically have to rush Bronze Working every game to start fighting your neighbours since it's so vital to get a GG out.

    +3 :c5culture: on conquered cities during GAs is kinda pathetic. It's a pretty small base yield, only active during GAs, and since it's on cities it gets reduced by the puppet yield penalty which effectively makes it do nothing at all. Compare this to the sorts of GA bonuses other civs get. I doubt it would be a problem if it were +3 :c5culture: on empire per conquered city during GAs, or even scaled somehow.
     
  8. pineappledan

    pineappledan Warlord

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    That would add to the UA text, which is already completely full. I haven't had an issue getting my first GG out in time for a decent Hetairoi rush in my own game. The other issue I could see happening with that is I hit max level on my GG within 3 turns of breaking into Renaissance. I had hoped there would be a bit more runway than that, but I managed to max out a bit quicker than I expected. Granted, I took artistry, and took a GG as my free GP at that policy unlock, so that helped me quite a bit.
    This might be a typo, but that could be your problem right there. The Phalangitai uses a newer SQL table which saps movement from units that start adjacent to it. 4UC components for macedon won't work with a version of VP older than November. I have played with 4UC using the 12-3 patch, and phalangitae seem to work fine.

    People seem to be really liking the stability and overall balance of the 12-3 patch. I'd recommend updating to that and see if it's still an issue.
    I agree, I'm thinking I might either increase this to 5:c5culture:, or make it +2:c5culture: in every city, scaling with number of conquered cities (so 2:c5culture: + # puppets/annexed cities on empire).

    With how Golden Ages have been made more rare, I think increasing their power makes a lot of sense.
    You mean +3:c5culture: for every conquered city in every city? ie. if i have 2 conquered cities, every city on empire gets +6:c5culture: I can imagine that getting out of hand extremely quickly.

    Here's what else I'm thinking:
    • Phalangitae aren't pulling their weight in my games. The base pikeman is really that bad. I'm thinking I will up their CS to 19 or 20
    • The Basilikoi's base yields are a good kick start, but the culture on unit production isn't pulling its weight. Compared to the Ottoman siege foundry, the Basilikoi simply can't keep up. I'm going to up the :c5culture: on unit production to 25%, and add +5XP
    • In order to "Make Room" for that increased :c5culture: generation on the UA. I'm going to switch the Katoikia to +5% :c5production: military unit production on empire, instead of +2% :c5culture: global culture
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2018
  9. t99KJwEd

    t99KJwEd Chieftain

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    Yeah, I'm using the 12-3 patch. By components 1-6 I mean VP is fully installed. Anyway, it was my fault. For some reason the modpack creator script doesn't like copying the mod's folder automatically, so I messed around with it to try to make sure it was working correctly and evidently broke something. Just needed to reinstall it.

    No, I meant a flat +3 :c5culture: per city regardless of city yields (if such a thing is easy to implement). It would be a way to get something out of it without having to annex everything. But I guess the theme is to encourage players to annex, in which case increasing the bonus would be better.

    They definitely need to be a good unit. Rushing D&P leaves you way off improving your military. I think a flanking bonus would suit the Macedonian tactics flavour, even if it's just starting with Shock I.
     
  10. pineappledan

    pineappledan Warlord

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    That's not how Phalangitae were used. If anything the Hetairoi would need to get the flanking bonus. The idea behind using a sarissa, or any pike block for that matter is simply to avoid getting flanked yourself. This is why the cutting edge of pike tactics in the middle ages was to put your pikemen in squares or schiltron formations. Dudes carrying weapons that long aint gonna flank nobody.

    Your job as a pike block is to keep an enemy pinned and facing you. Hence the movement sap. The Phalangitae were the anvil to the Hetairoi's hammer. They never struck the blow, but they formed an impregnable wall of death against which an enemy, with Macedonian shock cavalry bearing down on their rear, couldn't rout effectively.

    Should I add shock 1 to Hetairoi?
    That would actually be easier to implement than the current setup, but as you said, it would take away from the impetus to conquer. We want to give Alexander a reward which explicitly scales with more conquest, without razing. Razing is specifically the Timurids' core mechanic. There's a soft encouragement to annex, since puppets only get half the culture during GAs, but I'm okay with the major reward for annexation relegated to 4UC. It allows 4UC to add a bit more dimension to the civ.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2018
  11. Barak

    Barak Chieftain

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    I've tried a few games as Macedon, and I agree that they need a little something. Perhaps something involving a free Strategos somewhere?
     
  12. documental

    documental Chieftain

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    What I don't like is how the Strategos unit is acquired. It discourages building cities of your own and annexing all cities you conquer, even bad ones you'd normally puppet. Cities you'd probably be better off letting the AI reconquer, and won't that be abusable?
     
  13. pineappledan

    pineappledan Warlord

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    If you can hold a city for 15-20 turns, long enough to finish resistance and build the courthouse, then manage to get it recaptured, then I suppose it’s abusable in some fashion. More often than not, the city itself is worth more than the hassle of serially recapturing the same city for long enough to build a courthouse though. There are far more abusable mechanics in base VP than this.

    Yes, that’s alexander’s entire playbook, acquire as many cities as possible from other civs and get golden ages. They directly contribute to your empire’s culture, and annexation gives strategoi. The civ actively discourages your own settlement. If you want to raze cities there are other civs for that (Timur). If you want to puppet there's a civ for that too (Venice).
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2018
  14. pineappledan

    pineappledan Warlord

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    Update is live:
    Katoikia changed to +2% :c5production: Production in all cities
    UA changed to +1:c5culture:, in ALL cities, and +1:c5culture: for each conquered city on empire
    Phalangitae :c5strength:CS increased to 19
    Basilikoi Paides XP increased to 20
    Basilikoi Paides Culture conversion from unit production increased to 25%
     
  15. AndreyK

    AndreyK Chieftain

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    Are there Community Events for Macedonia?
     
  16. pineappledan

    pineappledan Warlord

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  17. t99KJwEd

    t99KJwEd Chieftain

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    I've had some more time to play with Macedon now and my impression is that they're most recognizable as a Cultural analogue to Assyria. Since your entire infrastructure is based on conquest (and specifically conquest, not just warfare like Japan/Denmark/Aztec) you need to constantly push any advantage you have. The payoff is that your army is very strong as long as you're warring on a single front, you can get a super tile in any city you want with a Katoika, and your Culture output will improve enormously during GAs (which are also dependent on warring, since your only GAP source is General births). Definitely a mono-playstyle civ, but different enough that it doesn't matter.

    I don't think the Phalangitae are weak in themselves. The problem is that by the time you get them you're likely to have several Blitz Hetairoi which are soon after going to turn into Blitz Knights and there's no way newly trained units can stand up to that. If you get 4+ horses ASAP, the Hetairoi snowball makes melee infantry basically irrelevant until the Renaissance when it's much less practical to headbutt cities down with a bunch of +50% GG aura Lancers. Maybe Phalangitae could get a defensive promotion and lowered CS so they're squarely an obnoxious zoning unit, since all I'm doing with them anyway is soaking damage or using their ZOC/ability to block movement.

    Also, I've noticed city-states building Katoika to improve their strategic resources. Seems to start happening about turn 150 on Standard.
     
  18. pineappledan

    pineappledan Warlord

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    I’m not sure what is going on with that... I’ve had civs building the Timurid UI in my own game when Timur wasn’t in the game... there’s a lot of bugs in this current build, and there’s nothing in my code which should be allowing for that to happen
     
  19. Enrico Swagolo

    Enrico Swagolo Warlord

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    Hentairoy's our boy

    Hentairoy's our boy

    Alas, same problem as Canada. Cannot see the two other Uniques. Can I have your advice on what code should I put in what file like I did with Canada? I tried simply removing the Teutonic Order part from cbo_compatibilty/units like I noticed you did previously, but I think I did it wrong somehow because it didn't work.

    EDIT - fixed it, changed SELECT into VALUES, added ( ); on the entire line
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2018
  20. Enrico Swagolo

    Enrico Swagolo Warlord

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    Authority > Fealty (need Happiness) > Imperialism seems to be the way to go. I almost finished Fealty, Imperialism's next. The civ's very good so far. I see no real flaws. Great early game thanks to a UU Horseman and unique Barracks as well as +25% Production>Culture conversion in-built on units and Strategos is effectively some yields, citadel effect and +2% Production to each city for conquest. That means he has great early game, but he never stops being great. I'm already at +20% Production in mid-medieval and I plan to continue beating up Gajah (8 more cities) before conquering my vassal with two cities, Korea, because I don't think having him (or anyone) be alive is worth it. By the way, I do like how the civ has me annex stuff that I'd usually raze or just keep puppeted. It's unique. While ultimately I'm trading +2% Production for a Culture/Science cost increase with some sweetening small yields/supply (so at a point it'll never be really worth it to annex), so far it's a deal I'm usually taking.

    Phalangitae sucks, though. With a Great General after several To the World's Ends', units just get killed so quickly by the fast Knights this guy has no impact, and if my GG isn't there Phalangitae seem unlikely to change the outcome of whatever's happening anyway. The effect is probably potentially gamebreaking if it removes the power to fortify (I have a phalangitae behind my knight wall but he's too slow to get there), but I feel no reason to really use them anyway. Why slow guys I could just kill with something else that has range and isn't a pikeman in disguise when at this point my Macedonia was very killy indeed? I'd rather build hetairoy into knight/heavy skirmishers/trebs/xbows in my cities than this, or simply spend my gold on a landsknecht for Gold every city attack. I'm not sure he should get buffed, though. The civ appears to be very strong as it is.

    Random points:
    • Katokia can only be built in owned land (not neutral), but can be adjacent to each other which makes for fun tactics. It's nice.
    • Fun tactic - I left worker at done-in-1-turn while waiting for SoZ tech and only after I got Statue of Zeus's free Barracks did I decide to finish the worker. Free burst of Culture. It's obviously only worth doing very early game while you await for the right tech, but nice thing nevertheless.
    • Goddess of Protection has some nice synergy. Barracks turned even better after I took it, and Roy is so fast it can come back to my territory very soon and heal 10 HP each turn more.
    • ...I think Great Wall procced the TTWE twice, though. I saw the notification appear twice. Might've been just a notification issue, however.

    Overall congratulations on making yet another fun to play civ that is different from the others. As with Canada I think this one would be bad in AI's hands, but for a humie like me it is enjoyable.

    EDIT - upper limit of Katoikia is 20% apparently. It won't budge anymore now. That changes things, the civ isn't going to be as OP late game as I thought.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2018
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