And that belief was fostered by Scientism (a product of the "Enlightenment"). Isn't it wonderful to base laws on science instead of natural law?It is correct that slavery per se had nothing to do with racism.
What brought racism into it was the fact that America was founded on the principle of 'all men are created equal', which was also adopted in other countries, so to justify slavery, black slaves had to be regarded as 'less than men'.
Giving colonies in the Americas morethrough slave trade doesn't seem wrong to me, it could help the Americans grow into a superpower, like in reality.
More colonial resources and general map changes
- Thread starter Leoreth
- Start date
SeekTruthFromFacts
King
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2009
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- 670
There is a distinction between classical slavery (enslaved in warfare or because of debt) and trans-Atlantic slavery (commercial slave trading of specific ethnic groups). East Asian slavery is similar to the former; the Muslim-controlled slave trade across the Indian Ocean and within the Ottoman Empire is similar to the latter.
The Slavery/Forced Labour civic surely represents classical slavery - we don't use it for America's spawn, do we? If you wanted to beef it up, then you could bestow the Aztec UP more widely.
Trans-Atlantic and Indian Ocean slavery is currently unrepresented. Here is a scheme that would be relatively simple to implement:
1. Cotton, coffee and sugar resources require a new Slave Plantation improvement [identical graphics to current Plantation]
2. The Slave Plantation can only be built by a new Slave Worker unit [graphics here]
3. Only appropriate civs will be able to build Slave Workers: perhaps America, Arabia, England, France, Mali, Portugal, Spain)
4. Create African Labour resources in west Africa, and perhaps the Great Lakes region. The (very cheap) Slave Worker unit can only be built if you have this resource.
5. African Labour resources require a new Slave Market improvement [camp graphics, as merijn_v1 said]
6: Most of these civs already have appropriate areas in their settler maps, but double-check everyone except the Americans does.
Problem: Relies on others selling African Labour to Americans. Will an American AI trade for it?
Some nice extras:
7. Slave Workers should always be killed by plague, and should preferably die when creating the Slave Plantation improvement
8. Slave Plantations generate local
[using the same mechanism that generates 
from jungles]
9. With an appropriate civic/technology/event, then you can build Engineers, which obsolete Workers and Slave Workers
Problem: Needs to incorporate a liberation event
Problem: The removal of Emancipation means that there is no longer an obvious civic for Engineers
A more historical way to generate Slave Workers: Make them poppable from huts, and have large numbers of huts appear in west Africa/Great Lakes in the appropriate time period.
Problem: how to get AI to repeatedly explore these areas.
Advantage: huts elsewhere represent classical slavery and Spanish enslavement of native Americans
This slave mod might also be useful for some other scheme: http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=13322
The Slavery/Forced Labour civic surely represents classical slavery - we don't use it for America's spawn, do we? If you wanted to beef it up, then you could bestow the Aztec UP more widely.
Trans-Atlantic and Indian Ocean slavery is currently unrepresented. Here is a scheme that would be relatively simple to implement:
1. Cotton, coffee and sugar resources require a new Slave Plantation improvement [identical graphics to current Plantation]
2. The Slave Plantation can only be built by a new Slave Worker unit [graphics here]
3. Only appropriate civs will be able to build Slave Workers: perhaps America, Arabia, England, France, Mali, Portugal, Spain)
4. Create African Labour resources in west Africa, and perhaps the Great Lakes region. The (very cheap) Slave Worker unit can only be built if you have this resource.
5. African Labour resources require a new Slave Market improvement [camp graphics, as merijn_v1 said]
6: Most of these civs already have appropriate areas in their settler maps, but double-check everyone except the Americans does.
Problem: Relies on others selling African Labour to Americans. Will an American AI trade for it?
Some nice extras:
7. Slave Workers should always be killed by plague, and should preferably die when creating the Slave Plantation improvement
8. Slave Plantations generate local
[using the same mechanism that generates from jungles]9. With an appropriate civic/technology/event, then you can build Engineers, which obsolete Workers and Slave Workers
Problem: Needs to incorporate a liberation event
Problem: The removal of Emancipation means that there is no longer an obvious civic for Engineers
A more historical way to generate Slave Workers: Make them poppable from huts, and have large numbers of huts appear in west Africa/Great Lakes in the appropriate time period.
Problem: how to get AI to repeatedly explore these areas.
Advantage: huts elsewhere represent classical slavery and Spanish enslavement of native Americans
This slave mod might also be useful for some other scheme: http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=13322
strijder20
Wallowing in irony
I think just spawning lots of Native workers in Africa could work too 
The problem in that case would be how to get the AI to capture them...
The problem in that case would be how to get the AI to capture them...
strijder20
Wallowing in irony
I don't get it. I thought the topic of thread was adding more resources? I'd definitely like to see more variety in colonial resources/more plantations, as that would be more realistic.
Fresol
Angry Halfling in Green
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2011
- Messages
- 2,282
I'm very interested to see those coffee/tea/tobacco introduced to the game, and some map fixes as well. I pointed out some incoherence between the 3000 BC and the 600 AD maps, ones that I don't know why would be there in my previous post. (Not including the move of wheat between Carthage and Tripoli and such.)
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=11337701&postcount=31
And one more: Dagou (on Taiwan) is a grassland hill in the 3000 BC map and a plain hill in the 600 AD one. If you can change it to a plain hill in the 3000 BC map it'll help my play
though it doesn't even matter that much.
The XML only allows to let mines and plantations to act as city, but this allows ships to enter them, too, which has weird and imo undesirable consequences.
I've already taken a look into the DLL code for connecting resources and it didn't seem to be an easy change. It'd be good to do that eventually, though.
I've already taken a look into the DLL code for connecting resources and it didn't seem to be an easy change. It'd be good to do that eventually, though.
Leoreth I like what you are doing; just a few comments:
-I am especially happy with the fact that you are encouraging the growth of historically important cities; thus I would like to add a few more to your list:
-Bogota: Currently insettleable; Should be the most important city in northern south America.
-Guatemala City and San Salvador are the most important cities in Central America; perhaps the AI should have more incentive to settle them. Also consider renaming Yax Mutal to Guatemala City after Spanish Conquest.
-There is really no incentive to build cities in lower Canada; Montreal, Quebec and Toronto (to an extent) They should be encouraged to be build by adding some fur and other resources. Also I see that more often than not, it is either Boston, New York that get built or the Canadian cities. It would be great to somehow have both preferably represented by France and England through some kind of map changes or spawns in North America.
-Caracas: Not problem here; just wanted to say if you do plan on adding/moving resources in Venezuela keep Caracas in mind.
-Here is another important one: Salvador: which is one of the most important cities in Brazil and its first capital. Would be great if you could remove the jungle from where it is supposed to be settled and center the resources on the city.
-Santiago De Chile: just like Caracas keep in mind in case you plan any changes.
-Chengdu: is one the most important Chinese cities but has been neglected so it would be wise to add one Chinese tea in its proximity and remove some of its jungles.
Some Areas that were overlooked when adding the New Resources:
-The Thrace province of Turkey, Northern Greece, and Bulgaria are one of the largest producers of Tobacco in the world. So it would make sense to add a tobacco and anyways by the looks of the Balkans could use a boost. It should probably appear by the 1600s.
-Kenya is the third largest producer of tea so it makes sense to a tea near Nairobi by 1860-1900.
-The Gilan Province of Iran is notorious for its tea and it would also make sense to move an India tea to Kashmir.
-I am especially happy with the fact that you are encouraging the growth of historically important cities; thus I would like to add a few more to your list:
-Bogota: Currently insettleable; Should be the most important city in northern south America.
-Guatemala City and San Salvador are the most important cities in Central America; perhaps the AI should have more incentive to settle them. Also consider renaming Yax Mutal to Guatemala City after Spanish Conquest.
-There is really no incentive to build cities in lower Canada; Montreal, Quebec and Toronto (to an extent) They should be encouraged to be build by adding some fur and other resources. Also I see that more often than not, it is either Boston, New York that get built or the Canadian cities. It would be great to somehow have both preferably represented by France and England through some kind of map changes or spawns in North America.
-Caracas: Not problem here; just wanted to say if you do plan on adding/moving resources in Venezuela keep Caracas in mind.
-Here is another important one: Salvador: which is one of the most important cities in Brazil and its first capital. Would be great if you could remove the jungle from where it is supposed to be settled and center the resources on the city.
-Santiago De Chile: just like Caracas keep in mind in case you plan any changes.
-Chengdu: is one the most important Chinese cities but has been neglected so it would be wise to add one Chinese tea in its proximity and remove some of its jungles.
Some Areas that were overlooked when adding the New Resources:
-The Thrace province of Turkey, Northern Greece, and Bulgaria are one of the largest producers of Tobacco in the world. So it would make sense to add a tobacco and anyways by the looks of the Balkans could use a boost. It should probably appear by the 1600s.
-Kenya is the third largest producer of tea so it makes sense to a tea near Nairobi by 1860-1900.
-The Gilan Province of Iran is notorious for its tea and it would also make sense to move an India tea to Kashmir.
strijder20
Wallowing in irony
Could you perhaps move the Amsterdam fish one S? It will be less likely to flip to England, and cities which could claim it (1 SW and 1 E of Amsterdam) would flip to the Dutch anyway.
iOnlySignIn
Prince$s
It still works with Fishing Industry.
I suggest replacing it with a Whale though:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whaling_in_the_Netherlands
A few more suggestions:
(1) Spawn more Wine in the Western Hemisphere, and perhaps South Africa and Australia as well, at appropriate locations.
Particularly: Sydney, Melbourne, Cape Town, San Francisco, San Diego. Currently these spots are too poor in food. I understand that a few Sheep spawn in Australia, but they spawn in the 20th century, way after English or Dutch UHV dates.
There should also be a Wine in Vinland, which disappears after 1550 (Little Ice Age).
(2) Cuba needs to be nerfed. Currently it has too much food and grows unrealistically (and annoyingly) large. However it doesn't function as a GP farm due to poor Production.
Suggest moving some of the resources up to Florida. Havana should have 1 Sugar, 1 Tobacco, and perhaps 1 Clam (shared with Kingston/Jamaica). That's already enough. Move the other Clam up the coast of Florida by 1 tile.
(3) Timber resource. Leoreth, you should consider adding this, since it's an easy way to increase the Production potential of any city site without unbalancing the game otherwise (like adding Metals, Horses, or Stone/Marble would).
No WAY. Just because it was possible to grow grapes in the area at the time that doesn't translate into a potential thriving wine industry on the scale Civ represents. The medieval world wasn't about to be hit with Cotes de Davis Strait Premier Cru.
About slavery: it isn't necessary to have slaves as an onmap resource. Your New World sugar plantations' labour force is coming from somewhere, but that happens beneath the game's radar.
iOnlySignIn
Prince$s
Do you ever play as the Vikings? Founding a city on a worthless tile is humiliating IMO.
Just updated to the latest SVN. Got another suggestion:
Please add more Fur to European Russia. Just compare how much Fur there is in Canada east of the Rockies, to how little Fur there is in Russia. That is plain wrong.
I also really like how few Tobacco/Coffee/Tea resources there are on the map. This would offer really interesting Trade opportunities IMO. But another outcome of this is that it decreases the relative importance of Wembley/Graceland/Hollywood. America still needs to build those 3 because they lack Culture and Happiness. For other civs getting Tobacco/Coffee/Tea may actually be easier.
Fresol
Angry Halfling in Green
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2011
- Messages
- 2,282
This is not an argument to add more resource, Ethiopia needs to control all coastal tiles for its UHV where the land is of little to no use. Besides, you can just grant independence once you found the city.
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