Most Flexible Leader?

[vicawoo]

Ramses, he has war chariots for early rushing, industrious for wonder building, spiritual for versatility, and extra priest slots.

Then probably huayna, for being powerful at all stages of the game. The indians are more strong than powerful, and that's largely a spiritual thing. Brennus has a crap UU, but charismatic is solid. I'd put pre-BTS augustus up there.

 

[madscientist]

I think Liz is the second most powerful behind HC but not as versatile as Asoka. She has more of a problem early on especially if isolated or cornered than Asoka. I would also think darius is more versatile than LIz, Immortals holding their own early on and organized allows a manageable large empire in isoaltion.

 

[Belisar]

What CIV would you say gives you the best chance of winning all of these games types on the difficulty level you play?

The usefulness of for example traits depends on the difficult level you play which makes things more complex
(less comparable)

 

[The Rook]

HC would be the all around #1 imho.

In isolation, Financial and Industrious are great traits for peaceful expansion. The Quechua is an excellent, cheap defensive unit against early barbarians. So you can relax the military, and focus on building wonders, and nurturing the economy instead.

In crowded continents, at the higher difficulty levels, the AI expands so quickly, I would consider a leader with a good early military UU to be a priority. At Immortal, if you are surrounded by civs it isn't uncommon for the AI to literally settle on top of you before 2000 BC, and I suspect this problem would be magnified at Deity. Once again, HC is financial, which can help to support a decent sized army, and the Quechua requires no resources, so you are guaranteed a formidable unit from the beginning of the game.

A good early game can consolidate a strong position for later on, and so I would much sooner use a leader who is optimal from the (very) beginning.

 

[absimiliard]

I HC's pseudo-creative trait is pretty good for a third trait as well......

(I just adore that granaries come w. +2 Culture for him, it's incredible!)

-abs

 

[King of Town]

I like mansa a lot. His UB is awesome for providing a boost to your finances right when you usually need it, and is UU is very solid. Spiritual is awesome, and financial is obviously great for any type of win.

 

[TRJS]

Wilhelm. Yes even with pangea. He just seems to play well for me.

One thing people are not mentioning is that different leaders suit their style better. I find Wilhelm's production boost late game via his UB along with his strong UU work well with my play style.

 

[DigitalBoy]

Elizabeth is most definitely powerful, but I don't give her any props at all for being versatile. She has no versatility militarily, certainly not anymore than any of the other financial leaders.

As far as flexibility goes, charismatic >>> philosophical, so if you want a flexible financial leader, go for Hannibal. (Or Darius, he has an early UU for war and fast courthouses for REX. I like Hannibal better though.)

 

[Winged Monkey]

I agree with Liz being a good choice. However... I think Ragnar might be a good choice as well. Perhaps even better. Remember, 5 of the scenarios in the OP might be won by domination/conquest. The three first are optional, but seeing as domination/conquest are easier to achieve than the others (well imo at least), and the fact that early warmongering makes the other win conditions easier to achieve, you have to love Ragnar's aggressive trait. His other trait being financial, he's one hell of a powerhouse no matter which direction you want to go. The financial trait is strong enough to support peaceful building on its own, even though you really want to do some warring at some point to fully take advantage of his aggressive trait.

(I might be slightly biased here because of my viking heritage!)

 

[futurehermit]

How can you say Liz doesn't have any versatility military-wise? Her UU is amazing and comes at a time when they are draftable and during a period which is really where you want to be targetting early domination wins. Philosophical also means you can bulb military techs and financial means you can pay for a large army. E.g., you can bulb theology early and crank out theocracy-enhanced units. You can also bulb your way through liberalism en route to renaissance-era units. If you are fortunate to get the pyramids, machinery and engineering are solid military techs you can bulb easily with GEs (you might question this, but it can be very powerful if done well depending on the skill level...maces/trebs prior to longbows is pretty insane).

She doesn't have aggressive/charismatic for traits, but imo for domination/conquest her UU is pretty great.

The reason I don't rank HC as high is that I think HC's UU is a bit of an exploit. If the AIs just mixed in warriors, you'd never be able to do what you can with quechuas. Granted, the AI does do that, so you can do great things with them, so HC probably does deserve to be ranked #1, but I've always had an ambivalent feeling toward quechuas for early/enhanced conquest/domination efforts.

 

[Verge]

Elizabeth. She used her virginity to keep a variety of options in play; you should do the same.

 

[JBossch]

I feel aggressive is getting a bad rap for versatility. As far as I can tell, only Winged monkey mentioned aggressive (ragnar-agg, fin). Even if you are going for a cultural victory, war is part of every game. Sometimes this only amounts to deterrence and defensive fights but you have to have some units and combat I unlocks many upgrades even with just a barracks.
I can't remember all the leaders who are aggressive but there have to be a few that could be considered versatile.

 

[DigitalBoy]

How can you say Liz doesn't have any versatility military-wise? Her UU is amazing and comes at a time when they are draftable and during a period which is really where you want to be targetting early domination wins. Philosophical also means you can bulb military techs and financial means you can pay for a large army. E.g., you can bulb theology early and crank out theocracy-enhanced units. You can also bulb your way through liberalism en route to renaissance-era units. If you are fortunate to get the pyramids, machinery and engineering are solid military techs you can bulb easily with GEs (you might question this, but it can be very powerful if done well depending on the skill level...maces/trebs prior to longbows is pretty insane).

Because everything anyone has ever told me about Elizabeth leads me to believe that her chief military advantage involves teching ahead of her rivals. I'm sure she does a great job of doing that one thing in particular, but I'm not going to call her versatile if that's the only ace up her sleeve.

 

[madscientist]

The difference between Liz and HC as fra as veratility
1) HC can get an early religion, and bolster teh economy with an early shrine. Regardless of board or start. I believe they start with agriculture, so early food is there.
2) I view the Quencha as very early cheap defense against barbarians. Hunting/archery/BW/AH can be delayed.
3) THe UB essentially turns HC into an early creative leader.
4) HC is the best leader to go for a stonehenge/oracle wonder build and get MC for cheap forges.


EDIT: Continue Post
For all these reasons I think he is more versatile than Liz. This does not mean Liz is week or cannot war. She's very powerful but slower to start off than HC which makes her less versatile overall.

 

[CivCorpse]

Because everything anyone has ever told me about Elizabeth leads me to believe that her chief military advantage involves teching ahead of her rivals. I'm sure she does a great job of doing that one thing in particular, but I'm not going to call her versatile if that's the only ace up her sleeve.

Maybe not versatile in approaching the military, but the question posed by the OP was in regards to versatility in overall victory conditions. Not versatility within one type of victory.
Secondly, that is not her only ace up her puffy sleeves.
Ace of Hearts: Techs to modern units and uses them to defeat larger less advanced armies. I chose hearts for thios ace because it represents the philosophical side that gets the bulbed techs.
Ace of Clubs: Redcoats. If i need to explain Redcoats to anyone they should go play Age of Empires or one of the other mindless clones for theose with quick thumbs and slow minds.(Can you guess who hates Microcrap?). Chose clubs for the violent nature of a club.
Ace of Diamonds: The UB Stock Exchange provides 15% got gold, more gold means supporting more troops and handling more conquered cities.

There are your aces, I have addressed all three aspects that define a leader. The traits, UB for their civ and the UU for the civ. There are no other differences between leaders than traits, UU and UB. I have shown where she has something of an advantage in all three....now combine all those advantages and you have a mean bitter lady that is best to not be trifled with.
HC is a great leader but in an isolated start his UU is useless unless you think you need an edge against barbarians. And so is the Ub. who do you need to win a culture fight on the border with? By the time you get to the AI lands they have a lot of ancient culture built up.
And even on a map with other AI on the starting landmass a Quecha rush is situational. I wouldn't try it vs a protective leader, or even one with a capital city on a hill. Can you get enough Quecha built before the AI has BW and copper hooked up? The AI target needs to be very close by. One whipped axeman fortified in a city can eat a lot of quecha. Will you have enough left over to take the archers as well?
Cheap forges are nice but cheap universities are better. Forges usually go in cities with decent production to begin with where universities go in production poor/commerce rich cities. And 15% extra commerce on top of the finacial boost is big...really big. Usually good for a notch on the tech slider. And when you drop the slider to 0% for gold to upgrade (remember you get the miltary techs sooner) you get a sizable boost in gold for up grading to, oh let's just say. REDCOATS.

 

[CivCorpse]

The difference between Liz and HC as fra as veratility
1) HC can get an early religion, and bolster teh economy with an early shrine. Regardless of board or start. I believe they start with agriculture, so early food is there.
2) I view the Quencha as very early cheap defense against barbarians. Hunting/archery/BW/AH can be delayed.
3) THe UB essentially turns HC into an early creative leader.
4) HC is the best leader to go for a stonehenge/oracle wonder build and get MC for cheap forges.


EDIT: Continue Post
For all these reasons I think he is more versatile than Liz. This does not mean Liz is week or cannot war. She's very powerful but slower to start off than HC which makes her less versatile overall.

I disagree on the slower start. Especially if she is coastal with a seafood bonus (and they tend to run in clumps). She starts with fishing so she can build a workboat while teching to BW, since she starts with mining. HC has to build the worker first THEN build the farm. If you're lucky he has rice or corn for a 5 or 6 food tile....plus one commerce for a river IF it's riverside, then he needs to tech the wheel and build a road to get it connected.
Liz can launch the boat at about turn 15 working a normal forested hill. So on turn 16 you have a 4 3 tile while you still have 14 turns until your worker is built. Start building a warrior or another work boat while working the seafood. It takes 5 turns to get to size2 then switch to a worker. At excatly turn 30 you can whip your worker so you have it on turn 31. You also have teched Agriculture and are 35beakers into another tech. And have already gone through your first period of anarchy

Even with riverside corn HC will need until turn 32 To have Bronzeworking, one 6 1 tile being worked and one worker. Seafood resources are more common than riverside corn. And a lighthouse bumps it to 5 3 and that is clams and crabs. If you get lucky enough to get coastal fish (happens about as often as riverside corn in my games) The you have a 6 3 at turn 12 if the fish are one tile from the capital and you had a plainshillforest but that is best case scenario)
Three tiles are HUGE in the opening phase of the game especially with bonus food as well. Unless he starts with a precious metal in his BFC, HC has to wait until he gets pottery before he can have a 3 tile. And with her 11-9 advantage (counting the 8 for the capital) Lizzy will get pottery first. Even sooner since she starts with fishing as well which further reduces the cost of pottery due to having both prerequisites. HC can quickly tech fishing as well, to take advantage of seafood, but he will always be a little behind Lizzy.

 

[madscientist]

I disagree on the slower start. Especially if she is coastal with a seafood bonus (and they tend to run in clumps). She starts with fishing so she can build a workboat while teching to BW, since she starts with mining. HC has to build the worker first THEN build the farm. If you're lucky he has rice or corn for a 5 or 6 food tile....plus one commerce for a river IF it's riverside, then he needs to tech the wheel and build a road to get it connected.
Liz can launch the boat at about turn 15 working a normal forested hill. So on turn 16 you have a 4 3

Back to versatility, what if no coast? Very rare you get a start with no fresh water to build farms for HC. Liz can be hampered by the happiness cap for a while, plus more hammer for defense early on. No knock aganist Liz, but HC get's off faster.

 

[TRJS]

So Madscientist likes to play with workers etc more than CivCorpse does.

Guys I think you are arguing over your individual play styles and this debate has nothing to do with the leaders.

Every leader can win all and every play condition. Well thats my theory.

 

[The Rook]

The reason I don't rank HC as high is that I think HC's UU is a bit of an exploit. If the AIs just mixed in warriors, you'd never be able to do what you can with quechuas. Granted, the AI does do that, so you can do great things with them, so HC probably does deserve to be ranked #1, but I've always had an ambivalent feeling toward quechuas for early/enhanced conquest/domination efforts.

To be fair, I don't think Quechuas would get you very far in a domination game. Unless you are playing on a Tiny map at Marathon speed. I love Quechuas, but at normal speed I find they are good for taking out one AI at the most.

 

[CivCorpse]

Back to versatility, what if no coast? Very rare you get a start with no fresh water to build farms for HC. Liz can be hampered by the happiness cap for a while, plus more hammer for defense early on. No knock aganist Liz, but HC get's off faster.

What if no unforrested rivertiles? what do you farm? Liz starts with mining so she can research BW faster. HC has the leg up on wonders, but if he gets beat to a wonder he gets gold but no wonder...gold is nice but Lis is running 2 scientists in her capital which will definately produce a GS. And there is always a pretty good chance at the Mids in BtS since the Ai doesn't seem to put as much a priority on it now. So happy liz is settling her GS at a respectable pace under representation and is just racking up the beakers. And with erlier access to copper, she has the axe rush as an option if needed. If she has a little room to expand then she will tech to IW faster than most civs and swordsmen are quite handy for a little Warrior Assited REX (W.A.R. for short).
And for versatility a Great artist produces a lot more culture than a wonder and you can get a lot more of them. And you don't have to use your best production cities for them so you can build troops to fend of the unwashed masses. To get the full benefit of industrious going for a cultural win. You need 3 ancient era cities building the early wonders so they can benefit from the culture doubling after 1000 years. For cultural wins, it's pretty much a coin toss.