Most Popular Excluded Civ?

[sealman]

I vote for Poland because I want to. Of the ones listed, It would be a toss up between the Mongols and Vikings and I would side with them Red-Headed Vikings.

 

[Cunobelin Of Hippo]

This popular poll has been moved in from the old 'Civilizations' forum...

 

[Pangur Bán]

Civ3 really disappointed me, not just for its mediocre editor but also because of the small number of civs. They should be thinking about an expansion pack with more civs, so I thought this poll would be a good way of giving them some idea of what ones are popular. I know that the options are not perfect, but you're perfectly free to post other suggestions, just as the Koreans and Poles have already been suggested. The Austrians(part of German civ), Italians(Romans good enough) and Byzantines (part of Greek civ) were intentionally left out.

Cunobelin of Hippo has kindly agreed to resurrect this poll after the civilizations forum was closed and archived.

PS, sorry I missed out a 'u' in Portuguese!

 

[Left Foot]

Since I'm new to this board, I missed this poll the first time around.

I voted for the Spanish as I considered them the most glaring omission . However, the Mongols, the Carthaginian, a middle ages representative of the arab/muslim civilisation are also unforgivable absentees.

I never understood why they reduced the number of civs. That struck me as regressive rather than progressive thinking.

 

[Montezuma]

What about turkic civilization? Not ottoman turks in Anatolia but turkic nations in Central Asia. Great West Turkut Kaganat suit in Middle Ages ALL Eurasia steppes from Carpathians to Altay mountains. They is inventors of sabre and equipments for horsback riding.
May be Turkestan/Turkic with Mounted Sabreman. Or Kazakhstan/Kazakh (one waste land), or Uzbekistan/Uzbeks (Timur Leng invade against Altun Orda -Gold Capital).

 

[Selous]

well i agree with that the spanish really must be included!! and the vikings!! (bah ... call em vikings damnit ) ... but i voted for the turks ... just to bolster their votes

and i dont think there should be a "arab" civ ... that is like having a black civ or a white civ .... it is more of a culture group

 

[Crimson Sunrise]

The Spanish would have been interesting, but I think people had a bad experience with them in Age of Kings. The Mongols, Turks, and whatnot had very little lasting impact on history, as did the civilization I voted for, the Carthaginians/Phoenicians.

 

[slashing]

There seem to be some themes emerging in the arguments for extra civs.

Theme 1 : I vote for a civilization because of the great impact it historically had on the world as we know it (Spain or Arabs - count the number of countries that speak these languages as a first or second).

Theme 2 : I vote for a civilization which, in just slightly different circumstances, could have been a great empire. Phoenicia, Hittites, Sumerians or "South American civ" (I presume Mayan or Inca) seem to fall into this category.

Theme 3 : I vote for a civilization because it had a great and glorious, albeit fleeting, moment in history. This argument works for the Mongols

Theme 4 : I vote for a civilization because of some combination of the above (a wide-spread, fleeting, could-have been civilization) such as the vikings/scandinavians.

Theme 5 : I vote for a civilization because it amuses me. Has to apply to aborigines

Me, I'm definitely a theme 1 person - get in the Spanish, the Arabs and the Portuguese. Dump the Iroquois. Allow for civil wars and splinter colonies (Americans).

I'm afraid that, in game terms, Israel, Vikings, Mongols - all have to rate as barbarians. Sorry guys, nothing personal.

The strongest candidates from the other categories are probably the Mongols and Phoenicia (or Hittites, Minoans, Sumerians, or Celts depending on your ancient history bias).

If anyone's interested in the social-dynamics of civilizations in the real world - check out Guns, Germs and Steel by Jared Diamond. The title refers to the reasons Europeans claimed the Americas. Apparently, the shape of the continents was a major factor!

 

[Pangur Bán]

It's great news that we're going to have new civs. (As if 16 was ever enough!) No-one seems to know at the moment who the new civs will be, but the poll is the evidence of who people think they should be. I really can't see them including new civs that aren't in the poll.

 

[Sixchan]

Same goes for Scots and Celts, don't you guys think that these come from the same root?
As with Scandinavians and Vikings??

Same with the Romans and Greeks, since Rome was a greek colony?

Same with the English and Germans, being that the Saxons (and I think the angles too) are germanic tribes?

The English and Americans?


There are too many connections to go along that path.

Personally, I think Scotland had enough impact on the timeline to warrant an extra civ. Scientific along with anything except Expansionist would fit them fine. As for a UU, what about a Highland Rifle Division, like the 51st Highland Division, that stayed in France after Dunkirk to fight on against the Gerries?
A very elite fighting squad.

 

[Pangur Bán]

The American historian Arthur Herman's new book commendably demonstrates that Scottish culture is historically one of the world's most underrated civs. And the contribution of the early Celts towards military-technological developments is also seriously underrated. For instance the Romans stole their sword, armour and helmet from the Celts.

I don't think it is legitimate to classify the Romans and Greeks together considering the linguistic, cultural and historical differences. If Rome was dependent in origin from any other civ then it would be the Etruscans.

The Germans and English are more distinct from each other than the French and the Spanish. If you started pulling civs together like that then the only European civs would be the Germanic, Latin, Slavic and Celtic ones. Most gamers probably wouldn't go for this kind of thing. Perhaps only linguists and cultural historians!

I wouldn't say as much for the English and Americans though.

 

[Hagbart]

!GO Vikings GO!

 

[Capt Ajax]

Carthage, the great nemisis of Rome, should not have been excluded from Civ III. Hannibal Barca is one of the greatest generals that ever existed in any civilization on any timeline.

I would agree to calling them the Phoenicians since they did originate from the Phoenicians of the City of Trye on the Eastern end of the Med.

 

[trader/warrior]

The Vikings were the best civilization in the history of the world!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[BiatchGuy]

Vikings.

A lot of my favorite metal bands come from Scandinavia so they have that extra cool factor. Plus the pointy helmets. And hot women. What's not to like?!


I'd like some Celts too. This is gonna sound corny as hell but, in Civ 2 I always used the Celts and the other civs that had the color white, because their cities showed up better on the map. STUPID.. I know.. but I played a lot as the Celts so it'd be cool to see them back in there..

 

[Sixchan]

I don't think it is legitimate to classify the Romans and Greeks together considering the linguistic, cultural and historical differences. If Rome was dependent in origin from any other civ then it would be the Etruscans.

The Germans and English are more distinct from each other than the French and the Spanish. If you started pulling civs together like that then the only European civs would be the Germanic, Latin, Slavic and Celtic ones. Most gamers probably wouldn't go for this kind of thing. Perhaps only linguists and cultural historians!

I wouldn't say as much for the English and Americans though.

Exactly my point.

If the world is still culturally divided in a thousand years (i.e. Civ400 doesn't have one culture group - American), then the English and Americans will have been seperate enough to warrant calling them seperate Civilizations (In long-term history, just so I don't spark a flame war). And while the English and Germans today may be different, when the Angle and Saxons first reached Angle-land (England, duh), they would not have been different enough from other Germanic tribes to call them a separate civ.

However, at what point did they become so different? Where does one Civ end and another begin? Why are the Celts and Scots the same?

 

[boca]

How come the mayans are not in the list?
They compete directly with the Incas for a space in America

 

[Pangur Bán]

Originally posted by Sixchan

Exactly my point.

However, at what point did they become so different? Where does one Civ end and another begin? Why are the Celts and Scots the same?

I don't think there is always one point at which one can say a civ separates from another. Civs evolve very slowly, and defining a civ consists of pointing a particular linguistic/cultural group or state at one particular time and saying "that is the X1 civ" and then pointing again to a further point in time and saying "that is the X2 civ" until one arrives at another point in time and says
"that could be the X3 civ and is almost identical to X2, but it differs so markedly from the X1 civ that we really ought to call it Y1 civ"

The Scots and Celts are not really the same. The modern Scots, for the most part, certainly are not Celts. The original Scots (Gaels)were Celts, but the Scottish language began to be replaced by Inglis (Old Scots) in many parts of the lowlands, until, by the 18th century Scottish speakers existed almost only in the Highlands. Inglis was then replaced by English. The word "Scot" is nowadays used for an English-speaking person from the area covered by the old kingdom of Scotland. These people certainly aren't Celts, although there are a few thousand Scottish speakers left among them.

 

[BuddhaBubba]

this poll is muy importante and only a few people have voted...put it on the main site please!!!

yeah, i think there was a limited number of civs to chose from...but Fireaxis did a nice job of really "coloring in" all the details of each civ...

i've gotta say that it would be ok to have civs that have strengths identical to others (if the Jews (israel) were scientific and religous just like the persians then I would be fine with that as long as they had a different unit and such...) btw, i think the Jews SU should be a modern upgraded tank or upgraded infantry since they're one of the best trained armies in the world (and maybe a natural resistance to spies...since they've dealt with terrorism for so long...)

just some suggestions...

 

[Tormund]

Originally posted by seghillian
This poll is rigged. There is no option to say that you're happy with things the way they are. There are 16 CIVs using every combination of the 6 traits that you can have. Adding more would clutter up the game. Just make some new ones in the editor if you don't like the ones supplied.

Simple combinatorics tells us that not EVERY combination is used. To use every combination of the 6 traits you would need 30 civilizations.

I would have thought that adding civilizations would have been a pretty trivial thing. In fact if anything I consider it to be more of a marketing ploy to be adding civs to the expansion pack.