Motivations for being a fascist

[Modder_Mode]

The Nazis downplayed their anti-Semitism and their desire for war until they were in power and ready to act on them. by the time they go public on their opinions it would be too late.
Also anti-Semitism isn't an integral part of fascism, only Nazism.

The Nazis were very open about their hatred of the Jews well before achieving power, the short lived DAP which was the party that Adolf Hitler joined and later became the NSDAP was also open about its anti-Jew sentiment.

 

[Senethro]

Anyone know where to get the full text of this?

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23040706/

 

[AmazonQueen]

The Nazis were very open about their hatred of the Jews well before achieving power, the short lived DAP which was the party that Adolf Hitler joined and later became the NSDAP was also open about its anti-Jew sentiment.

Hitler's speeches when in power 33-38 concentrated on the threat of Communism and the need to redress the inequities of the Versailles Treaty.
Anti-Semitic policies were carried out during that period as they were in other countries like Poland during the same period, but gave no clue to a Final Solution, probably because that wasn't planned at the time.

 

[Ajidica]

Hitler's speeches when in power 33-38 concentrated on the threat of Communism and the need to redress the inequities of the Versailles Treaty.
Anti-Semitic policies were carried out during that period as they were in other countries like Poland during the same period, but gave no clue to a Final Solution, probably because that wasn't planned at the time.

I was under the impression that the anti-semitism of the early 30s Nazi party was meaningfully different from the anti-semitism common in Poland (and sadly most of Europe) at the time. While the Polish (and other) anti-semitism was largely focused around Jews being 'nationless' and a general link between Jews and communism, Nazi anti-semitism presented Jews as being an organize threat to the German nation and focused on blood to a degree not seen elsewhere.

 

[H4run]

I was under the impression that the anti-semitism of the early 30s Nazi party was meaningfully different from the anti-semitism common in Poland (and sadly most of Europe) at the time. While the Polish (and other) anti-semitism was largely focused around Jews being 'nationless' and a general link between Jews and communism, Nazi anti-semitism presented Jews as being an organize threat to the German nation and focused on blood to a degree not seen elsewhere.

The trigger of this discussion is that, some poster, I forgot exactly who, stated for a state to be consider a fascist state, "anti-Semitism" is an essential requirement that cannot be missed. The implication of this statement is that, whatever level of oppression, racism, extreme centralism and an awful curbing of opposition the government is, when anti Semitism is not part of its ideology and activism it will be auto-negated as a fascist state.

So it's exclusively belong to the Jews or Arabs (if Arabs allowed to be consider Semitic) while if Indonesian government for instance, makes Auschwitz to curb all the Chinese and destroy every breath of opposition, it would never be consider a fascist state because Chinese are not semitic.

Something super weird about this logic right? Like it's exclusively belong to group of peoples/race.

 

[AmtrakQuebec]

I would say the Nazis were always pretty open about their hatred of Jews... I mean Hitler devoted a lot of Mein Kampf to the threat of the "Jewish peril", in both volumes, which was available from 1925 and promoted by the Nazis, so it's not like they were trying to hide it.

 

[H4run]

I would say the Nazis were always pretty open about their hatred of Jews... I mean Hitler devoted a lot of Mein Kampf to the threat of the "Jewish peril", in both volumes, which was available from 1925 and promoted by the Nazis, so it's not like they were trying to hide it.

Is Fascist state synonymous with Nazi Germany? Or Nazi Germany is just one example of fascist state?

And before the discussion getting wider again, by people saying "yes, it's interchangeable!" I will accept that every post-Nazi fascist state must follow the exact foot-step of Nazi or else it would not befitting to be called Fascist state.

By accepting this argument in the same time I'm forced conclude that: fascist state is an exclusive form of government that oppressing a specific ethnicity: Semitic people. If the state being anti Melayu, anti African, anti Chinese, anti Uyghur, anti Aborigine, they are not fascist state, because those are not belong to semitic peoples: the anti-semitism requirement is not fulfilled.

Is that right?

 

[AmtrakQuebec]

Is Fascist state synonymous with Nazi Germany? Or Nazi Germany is just one example of fascist state?

And before the discussion getting wider again, by people saying "yes, it's interchangeable!" I will accept that every post-Nazi fascist state must follow the exact foot-step of Nazi or else it would not befitting to be called Fascist state.

By accepting this argument in the same time I'm forced conclude that: fascist state is an exclusive form of government that oppressing a specific ethnicity: Semitic people. If the state being anti Melayu, anti African, anti Chinese, anti Uyghur, anti Aborigine, they are not fascist state, because those are not belong to semitic peoples: the anti-semitism requirement is not fulfilled.

Is that right?

So, you're saying only goose-steppers are fascists?

 

[H4run]

So, you're saying only goose-steppers are fascists?

It's just me doing absurdum. Sigh.

I'll break it down for you. There are two things that are in contention in this discussion, first Anti-Semitism is an unseparated element of Fascism, which implied fascism is a state that exclusively oppressing Semitic, if it's not anti Semitic (anti African, anti Asian, etc) then it's cannot be a fascist state.

Second, Anti-Semitism is not a necessary element to define a fascist state, means any oppression that scrub any group, ethnicity or race that propagate to be opposite to or against the state, is enough acknowledge it as a symptom of state fascism.

The first is racially exclusive. The second is inclusive.

 

[AmtrakQuebec]

I guess sarcasm is not your thing.

 

[H4run]

I guess sarcasm is not your thing.

The sarcasm is too perfect so it pass through me? Because a post before that you were alluding about Nazi anti-Semitism, and I thought you were enforcing the "anti-Semitism exclusive argument" for fascism. I was quite confuse and try to reply you with patient, but yea, now it's clear that that was a joke.

 

[Ajidica]

The trigger of this discussion is that, some poster, I forgot exactly who, stated for a state to be consider a fascist state, "anti-Semitism" is an essential requirement that cannot be missed.

That's definitely an odd view of fascism because while Italy was clearly fascist, my understanding is that Italian fascism didn't make anti-semitism a key point, belatedly passing race laws in 1938 on Nazi request and only sort of going along with Nazi anti-semitism during the war.

 

[Joij21]

Would this be considered a fascist camp of indoctrination? Elan School existed in Poland, Maine from the early 1970's until closing down in 2010.

Regardless, perhaps the long term phycological effect on it's alumni has had unforeseen consequences as to their political views. We may never know.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Élan_School

 

[AmtrakQuebec]

When I saw The Cult, I thought it was the band

 

[H4run]

Would this be considered a fascist camp of indoctrination? Elan School existed in Poland, Maine from the early 1970's until closing down in 2010.

Regardless, perhaps the long term phycological effect on it's alumni has had unforeseen consequences as to their political views. We may never know.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Élan_School

Gonna watch this later during lunch or dinner, interesting.

 

[Akka]

I'm talking about a singular incident that happened almost fifteen years ago. Now, a lifetime of experience has left me bitter and cynical, and I believe openly in the use of state terror to destroy organized political conservatism in my country.

Hey, you managed to actually answer the question in the OP, though probably unwittingly.

 

[Gorbles]

Hey, you managed to actually answer the question in the OP, though probably unwittingly.

This is funny, given your signature.

 

[Akka]

This is funny, given your signature.

Yes thank you, being funny is its whole point. Though I don't really see how it is relevant with how Lexicus displayed the exact mindset that makes people fascists.
Unless it's just a roundabout additional illustration of how thought extremism is so much on the rise that such signature has lost most of its shock value humour because it doesn't sound comically extreme anymore. But then it only compound what I was saying.

 

[Gorbles]

If your issue is with displays of force, or perhaps alleged authoritarianism, then that isn't unique to fascism (which has kinda been the driving point of a lot of tangents in this thread). Also, it's doubly funny (on a caffeine deficit, very late night last night for non-silly reasons) because I've only just realised you're talking about "thought extremism" but apparently you're fine to label other posters with "fascism". Shoe on the other foot, or something?

 

[Akka]

If your issue is with displays of force, or perhaps alleged authoritarianism, then that isn't unique to fascism (which has kinda been the driving point of a lot of tangents in this thread).

Repression and enforced conformity through violence is not unique to fascism, but it's an important part of it. The OP was about the motivations, and this angry desire to force others to think and do what you want them to do is definitely one of the major motivations for ALL authoritarian thinking, fascism included.

Also, it's doubly funny (on a caffeine deficit, very late night last night for non-silly reasons) because I've only just realised you're talking about "thought extremism" but apparently you're fine to label other posters with "fascism". Shoe on the other foot, or something?

Small corrections :
- First, calling others "fascists" at the drop of the hat is actually a dominant feature of the people I tend to clash with, so yeah "funny" indeed that you somehow manage to miss this. Mine is more to point at how they claim to hate fascists, but their thinking process tend to align, and the quote I commented is a perfect example.
- Second, did you actually read the quote ? Because "I believe openly in the use of state terror to destroy organized political conservatism in my country" doesn't require any sort of "thought extremism" to see definite fascist-leaning in it.

You really do seem to make a lot of efforts to twist it in a way that fits what you want to see. Caffeine deficit indeed, it seems you do need mental preparation to not get down on bad faith.