Mughal Leak

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

This would singlehandedly change this design from fine but uninspired to absolutely fantastic in concept for me.

It was Shah Jahan's Great Person ability from Civ 6. I figured it would be thematic.

 

[PauI]

If there's a civic or tradition that allows you to rush wonders with gold, all will be forgiven

There actually is!

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

There actually is!

Hetshepsut: "Wait, you can do that!?"

 

[Josephias]

There actually is!

Wait! That has the potential to be the most annoying civic ever…

“So, you are just 1 turn of completong that wonder… Sorry!”

 

[The_goggles_do_nothing]

Hatshepsut, Leader of Mughals: “Wait, I can do that!”

I like the idea that modern cigs can do things that ancient ones thought impossible.

 

[PauI]

Wait! That has the potential to be the most annoying civic ever…

“So, you are just 1 turn of completong that wonder… Sorry!”

i mean if u let someone get that big economically you kind of deserve it

 

[Vincent_lacruz]

Also, we saw that you can improve mountain tiles during the modern age. That explains how you can transition from Incas without having problems with their improved mountains, although you might lose the food+production bonus from the civ... In the modern age mountains seems to be producing only hapinness and production.

 

[PorkBean]

I was hoping that these kinds of restrictive and negative abilities would be limited to leaders. I don't mind Shaman Himiko's awkward Science penalty, since I can just not choose her (and play regular Himiko). But it looks like if you want to play a "normal" game as the Mughals, you're out of luck until a mod comes along revising their design.

 

[Xandinho]

There actually is!

Interesting that the Mughals have indeed been confirmed as the builders of modern wonders. And it’s no surprise—the Taj Mahal is one of the most stunning representations of a world wonder.

Egypt > Abbasids > Mughals will definitely be the first match.

 

[pokiehl]

Great example of how the civ design is not just the ability, but rather the whole picture including traditions/civics can combine to make such an interesting and cool playstyle.

 

[TheGhostEnthusiast]

I was hoping that these kinds of restrictive and negative abilities would be limited to leaders. I don't mind Shaman Himiko's awkward Science penalty, since I can just not choose her (and play regular Himiko). But it looks like if you want to play a "normal" game as the Mughals, you're out of luck until a mod comes along revising their design.

I very much do not agree with this... I do not pick a Civilization in hope of having a "normal" game as them, I want to interact with the game's systems in a different way now that I am viewing it through the lens of their abilities. That purpose is served by both boni and mali, as they both give you different priorities. Especially with Civ switching in mind (you get to pick your abilities for the last 2/3rds of the game depending on your situation), I would not complain that Siam is too weak if you aren't going for City States, or that Spain's abilities are pointless if you aren't going for the Distant Lands. Mughal India's bonuses have a bit more give-take, sure, but it's not like Civ switching doesn't introduce that across the board (you're effectively losing out on all the boni you could have with another Civ by picking another). If I wanted to play a "normal" game as the Mughals, I would look at my empire, see a potential for strong gold generation as well as a neighbor to conquer, and decide to play as the Mughals, just as a "normal" game as Prussia might be inspired by being behind in a previous age but entering the new one with a neighbor lacking strong defenses.

 

[Lord Lakely]

We hates negative abilities. We hates it, Precious!

There's nothing negative about it. Gold is a much stronger yield than Culture and Science in Civ7. The only downside I see is less Influence (but like... okay? You're not diplomatic so who are your suzeraining here?) and less Happiness (which you can get from other sources, such as being Ashoka).

My gripe with it is that it is BORING. and flavourless.

 

[agamemnon_of_the-bronze_]

Interesting that the Mughals have indeed been confirmed as the builders of modern wonders. And it’s no surprise—the Taj Mahal is one of the most stunning representations of a world wonder.

Egypt > Abbasids > Mughals will definitely be the first match.

i want to go persia > mongol>mughal as xerxes 1st game.

 

[AriochIV]

There's nothing negative about it. Gold is a much stronger yield than Culture and Science in Civ7. The only downside I see is less Influence (but like... okay? You're not diplomatic so who are your suzeraining here?) and less Happiness (which you can get from other sources, such as being Ashoka).

My gripe with it is that it is BORING. and flavourless.

Influence is even more important for warfare than it is for "diplomacy"; pumping up your War Support is crucial to avoid war weariness and stacking combat modifiers against you.

Anyhow, I didn't say the ability was weak, I said I hates it. And I does, Precious!

 

[TheGhostEnthusiast]

My gripe with it is that it is BORING. and flavourless.

In isolation, but personally I think the Wonder-buying Civic saves it... that's the true gimmick at play here in my eyes, the UA exists primarily to serve it.

 

[Krikkit1]

In isolation, but personally I think the Wonder-buying Civic saves it... that's the true gimmick at play here in my eyes, the UA exists primarily to serve it.

And there are probably other civics with other interesting effects

 

[PorkBean]

I would not complain that Siam is too weak if you aren't going for City States, or that Spain's abilities are pointless if you aren't going for the Distant Lands.

Neither would I, because that's the way it should be. Siam rewards the player for playing with City-States, and the penalty for not doing that is... you miss out on the bonuses. But imagine if it was "May immediately become Suzerain of a City-State, but -25% yields if you have no City-State Allies". That's the way I feel about abilities like this. They're railroady and force the player into doing the uniques, when civs should be versatile and compatible with any playstyle the player chooses.

Mughals is not that bad all things considered, but I'm really anxious about the "rule-breaking" civs that Ed mentioned in the last stream. I can't stand the Civ 6 designs that lock the player out of certain mechanics.

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

We hates negative abilities. We hates it, Precious!

No one likes it. but this is tradeoffs to reflexes historical existence from beginning to end. Both of Qing and Mughals are lacklusters in society.
While Siam has no malus tradeoffs. IRL Siam NEVER progress to the point of Global Powers while Meiji Restoration turns Japan from underdogs into global power on par with many Empires.

 

[agamemnon_of_the-bronze_]

does anyone know where i can find the civics/traditions or more details on them ?

 

[agamemnon_of_the-bronze_]

i feel that the mughals were some of the last great wonder builders so it makes sense . seems absurdly powerful though. Def looking forward to playing them just wish i could use a mughal leader.