Multipolarity II - Game Thread

[Jehoshua]

I have much respect for jehoshua, even though he may be annoying and rude sometimes.

Good to see some respect.

incidentally, Im going to call out cultural differences when people say Im rude on here. Although I agree Im exceedingly irritating and annoying at times

 

[christos200]

To Throvlad:

Do you imply that I am a jerk? Just because I kicked your ass twice in MP, it does not mean that I am jerk!

 

[Jehoshua]

Nah, he's simply referencing the fact that people find you annoying due to the occasional bout of crazy behaviour.

The implication was to me before you, and since Im not really outraged at it (more in the mind to clarify jerk as "solely concerned with good of my nation") its not like Thor is insulting anyone. EDIT: Disclaimer, all things I have recently wrote have been early in the morning (2-5am) after three days of minimal sleep. Just saying in case I inadvertanty offend someone)

 

[Osmowstroyer]

The truth is that everyone wants to win, that is the main reason, otherwise I would simple backstab all my allies and lose. Of course, P_F is winning, but is that the main reason you want to kick it? If so, I think the ones who want P_F out only wants the ssame thing as him, winning (according to your concept of winning), but in an unfair way. Also, is powergaming possible? I was reading some old threads of Poster Empires and such and in those you could powergame, but in this IOT there are rules.

 

[Ailedhoo]

To Throvlad:

Do you imply that I am a jerk? Just because I kicked your ass twice in MP, it does not mean that I am jerk!

It was the NPC allaince that beaten Thor in MP, not you.

Alas you have... some questionable notalbe notions as I first discovered in IOT9 and in your questionable role as a GM in ChristosIOT.

 

[Tani Coyote]

I've extended the deadline so as to allow people to get their secret stats prior to lock, which will be midnight on Sunday, Pacific Time. Sometime tomorrow I will announce that I am about to return home; please be ready to receive the PM with your stats and send orders when I do in fact get home. The much later deadline gives a few hours grace time to be able to get orders in based on the received stats.

==

Now let's see here.

I don't see "wanting to win" (as powergaming is defined as) as sufficiently disruptive; some people are simply more competitive than others. My desire of when to apply GM intervention, I know, can be inconsistent, but that's one of the areas where I believe in player moderation - if the world does not like PF, they can make him implode in an instant under a swarm of embargoes and invasions. There is certainly enough IC reason to do so to avoid it counting as metagaming.

When the polling procedures were carried out, I saw about 3 or 4 people who didn't really like PF's playstyle. Folks also did not approve of Mathalamus, Ghostwriter, or Christos' playstyles; I still allowed their participation. The dislike of how PF has been playing is hardly unanimous, so I don't feel it is worth acting on. I address any serious imbalances as they come (PF can vouch for this), to try and prevent too much of an easy zerg rush to success.

It would be simpler to kick PF and avoid a serious bureaucratic overhaul, but I must disagree with my role model GLaDOS and say that the best path is NOT always the easiest one. The nature of clients and the division of power has been constantly evolving since turn 1, and hammering out the exact boundaries of GM control, sub-GM control, and the mechanical control in NPCs is certainly something I am interested in doing.

The DC dominates the world; this could be easily changed. Even with its grand alliance, there are still plenty of non-aligned nations, and a counteralliance can be formed at any time. The 501st, Union of China, and Katterland could easily pool their great power and influence in a countercoalition and break the DC monopoly on power in an instant. Any exploits the DC could use to get very, very far ahead of the competition are constantly addressed, regardless of how much its members may dislike it.

It was the NPC allaince that beaten Thor in MP, not you.

Christos masterfully commanded the NPCs from behind the scenes and built up enough power over the turns to quickly and rapidly annex China and reform the Empire. I'd say Christos beat Thorvald there; Thorvald just homorously took over Christos' NGO slot.

 

[Tyo]

The fact he insta-formed it is kinda BS.

 

[Tani Coyote]

They were all part of China until Mayor's dominion cut it into pieces. The parts that were part of China were naturally eager to rejoin a state that had once been a superpower. Nationalism is legit and all. The parts that weren't part of the Empire before remained independent as clients.

Anyway, that's MP1. This is MP2.

Reminds me why I am definitely going to reshuffle things for MP3...

 

[Tani Coyote]

This is the proposal on how to divide minor NPCs between my control, Thorvald's, and mechanical limits. It is more or less in line with Thorvald's requests, with some additional refinement.

Major NPCs are the exclusive domain of the GM and have their own rules of conduct.

===

We the People of Multipolarity II, in order to create a more perfect game, ensure balance, secure the blessings of stability, and provide for the common enjoyment, do ordain and establish this Constitution of Non-Player Country powers.

Order of precedence is from left to right. Leftmost power has first say, then second, etc. If the first category does not exist, or has not given an opinion, it becomes the perogative of the second, and so on.

Terminology:

GM: Myself.
Sub-GM: Thorvald of Lym
Suzerain: The state that has cliented another, as per the "client" column on the spreadsheet.
NGO: Mandatum, Orks, or BPA.

Foreign policy/defense

• Control over embargoes: NGO master, Suzerain, Sub-GM, GM
• Control over peace/war status: NGO master, Suzerain, sub-GM, GM
• Control over UN votes: NGO Master, Suzerain, Sub-GM
• Control over military: NGO master, Sub-GM; suzerain may petition the sub-GM to allocate troops to their war efforts.
• Control over spies: Agents remain on defense at all times except for if to coup their OWN rebels.
• Denial, acceptance and rejection of clientship: This is solely the perogative of random events and mechanical procedures.
• Control over foreign aid: Sub-GM; A state that is a major/minor NPC cannot send anymore than 10% of its revenue, unless the money is to pay for a tech deal. Suzerains may request financial aid from their clients, but the request does NOT need to be granted.

Suzerains may yield their priority and let clients (via the sub GM) decide as they wish.

NGOs are the only governing bodies that can go around the sub-GMship. It is advised NGOs do not do this too noticeably so as to avoid detection.

Domestic Affairs

• Control over spending: NGO, Sub-GM, Suzerain, GM; Suzerain may petition sub-GM to direct spending in a particular manner.
• Control over government setup and nation name: Sub-GM. Suzerain may request name and government changes (i.e. Twilightopia being renamed South Cascadia).
• Expansion: NGO, Sub-GM, GM; suzerains may request their clients do not expand into certain areas and it is up to the sub-GM if nations honor these. Minor states always expand provided they have the armies and fleet/airmadas necessary to transport them.

.

NGOs are the only governing bodies that can go around the sub-GMship. It is advised NGOs do not do this too noticeably so as to avoid detection.

Misc.

Minor NPC rebels are under the control of the sub-GM; the only exception is if they are NGO-sponsored, in which case the NGO can determine how they will lean and their behavior. If they desire they may leave the rebels entirely in sub-GM hands to maintain secrecy; they will still gain client status over them if they succeed in a revolution.

===

Due to the conflict of interest that could possibly arise from NGO vs. sub-GM control over minor countries (logically NGOs will need to reveal who they control of the sub-GM, and such information could quite possibly have unconscious influence; if the UoC wants to wipe out Mandatum, and knows Mandatum's main base is Alemeinea, short of an RNG-roll to determine couping, Alameinea is a tempting target), I am recommending that the Union of China become a major NPC or be dissolved into two or three minor states.

Alternatively I can just remove the NGO influence, but as we can see from Crimea, the ability of NGOs to direct minor NPC behavior is a -huge- part of their ability to play.

 

[Patriotic_Fool]

Control over foreign aid: Sub-GM; A state that is a major/minor NPC cannot send anymore than 10% of its revenue, unless the money is to pay for a tech deal. Suzerains may request financial aid from their clients, but the request does NOT need to be granted.

Wait.. so we no longer get the 10% income for clients?

So pretty much you're saying that the sub-GM controls whether I get income from clients, whether I get any army from clients..

So pretty much clients worth 300 income are now just glorified UN votes?

We the People of Multipolarity II

I had no say in this! The Soviet People, the true embodiment of socialism, free will, and justice, were not informed!

 

[Kinich-Ahau]

To smooth over any misunderstandings, I would like to say that I have consistently ordered my clients to not expand into regions I have claimed territories in; given the above changes, I realize I can no longer do this, but I would appreciate it if Thorvald decided to follow these rules anyway.

This is assuming, of course, that I will only get the region bonus if I personally control all territories in a region; if I get the bonus so long as the land is controlled my myself or a client of mine, I would have no problem where my clients expand.

 

[Tani Coyote]

The Space Race will arrive soon enough my friends. Make sure to invest in ballistics and industry if you care to take part. WMD techs will help as well so as to assist your terraforming efforts!

Wait.. so we no longer get the 10% income for clients?

So pretty much you're saying that the sub-GM controls whether I get income from clients, whether I get any army from clients..

So pretty much clients worth 300 income are now just glorified UN votes?

The 10% income from clients is completely separate from this provision. If a 300 GDP state has 60 income, you are already collecting 30 gold per turn from them; they can send at most 6 gold to you on top of that.

 

[Patriotic_Fool]

Okay, that clarifies things. Also, akin to what kinich was saying... does the bonus apply to all those in a client-controlled regions?

A few NPCs are edging into USSR territory, and even if they snipe 1 or 2 territories, would that nullify the bonus (if they are cliented).

 

[Tani Coyote]

It would nullify the bonus as is, but I'm going to get around to client assimilation mechanics eventually.

 

[Patriotic_Fool]

*evil grin*

I like the sound of that...

I am recommending that the Union of China become a major NPC or be dissolved into two or three minor states.

Huzzah! I like that plan! Fairness for everybody!!

 

[Tani Coyote]

Still Thorvald's decision ultimately.

I just think it would reduce his stress enormously and finally lay any question of possible bias to rest.

Granted, it seems the NPCs are a center-left bunch collectively but what can one do.

 

[Patriotic_Fool]

Still Thorvald's decision ultimately.

I just think it would reduce his stress enormously and finally lay any question of possible bias to rest.

Granted, it seems the NPCs are a center-left bunch collectively but what can one do.

One can burn all the dictionaries and redefine Communism. In any case, I'll be on thors ass like a Jew on pennies if he's a jerk when it comes to my clients. (assuming he doesn't do the wise thing and step the UoC down, which I'm sure any intelligent, self-respecting Sub-GM would do voluntarily for the state of the game's health)

 

[Thorvald of Lym]

I motion we put this game on hold until Tani and I have figured out the final exercise of executive power.

 

[Tani Coyote]

I motion we put this game on hold until Tani and I have figured out the final exercise of executive power.

Was my proposed division of powers (complete with who executes authority if someone doesn't execute it) satisfactory?

 

[Thorvald of Lym]

No, because it contradicts the previous agreement in multiple instances.

If you want to discuss it, we have to, you know, discuss it. Preferably when I'm not under time pressure.

I'll hit you up on your board later today.