Multipolarity IV Game Thread

[Kinich-Ahau]

Nonsense; the Noodle Republic was simply going to place restrictions on Horde Merchants dealing in slaves; given that slavery was illegal in the Noodle Republic, this was perfectly understandable, and, going by the Iron Chef's understanding of the treaty, legal.

The Golden Horde would have been the aggressor should war have broken out over that incident; the 501st Legion was simply doing its part to ensure peace & stability in East Asia.

 

[Sonereal]

That's false. Just because the Noodle Republic failed to read the fine print, and failed even more to realize their treaty partner was pro-slave before hand (which it was), doesn't excuse the Noodle Republic from breaking commitment. The Republic would've been the aggressor and the 501st would've been abetting Yellow Chinese aggression in the region.

The 501st attempt at Realpolitik in the region was almost directly responsible for a general war in the East.

 

[Jehoshua]

It is dissapointing to see that the 501st Legion resorts to outright lies in its attempt to dominate the region through threats of force. Does Yunnan really want to be associated with a nation that sees truth as relative, and can't be trusted with what it says?

 

[Kinich-Ahau]

Incorrect; the Noodle Republic never threatened war with the Golden Horde; it simply announced it intentions to restrict the flow of slaves to the Golden Horde; this does not constitute a declaration of war. Whether or not this constitutes a violation of the Lhasa Trade treaty is immaterial; even if it constituted a violation, breaking the treaty would not have been a declaration of war; it would have supplied a legitimate reason to make war against the Noodlers, but it would not in itself have been an example of Noodler aggression.

Secondly, the 501st's actions in no way would have resulted in a 'General War' in the East; we declared our intention to protect the Noodle Republic against the Golden Horde only; the 501st would have stayed out of any Crimson-Noodler War. The Crimson King's actions would have been responsible for the escalation of the conflict into an East Asian War should he have decided to intervene in favor of the Golden Horde in any hypothetical Horde-Noodle war.

Finally, when the Noodle Republic stated that the Golden Horde's slavery was not true slavery, they stated- in the same message- that that was due to the slavery in the Golden Horde being a voluntary religious matter; slaves that are bought on the world market may have been performing religious duties to the Horde, but they would not have been doing so freely.

OOC: In case anyone thinks that this does not make sense in context of the arguments presented against me, I went digging through the thread for some of NinjaCow's posts, in an attempt to get to the root of the issue.

 

[KaiserElectric]

Doesn't the existence of machine-driven industry and agriculture make slavery obsolete anyway, with the exception of very poor minor powers?

 

[Jehoshua]

Incorrect; the Noodle Republic never threatened war with the Golden Horde; it simply announced it intentions to restrict the flow of slaves to the Golden Horde; this does not constitute a declaration of war. Whether or not this constitutes a violation of the Lhasa Trade treaty is immaterial; even if it constituted a violation, breaking the treaty would not have been a declaration of war; it would have supplied a legitimate reason to make war against the Noodlers, but it would not in itself have been an example of Noodler aggression.

Secondly, the 501st's actions in no way would have resulted in a 'General War' in the East; we declared our intention to protect the Noodle Republic against the Golden Horde only; the 501st would have stayed out of any Crimson-Noodler War. The Crimson King's actions would have been responsible for the escalation of the conflict into an East Asian War should he have decided to intervene in favor of the Golden Horde in any hypothetical Horde-Noodle war.

Finally, when the Noodle Republic stated that the Golden Horde's slavery was not true slavery, they stated- in the same message- that that was due to the slavery in the Golden Horde being a voluntary religious matter; slaves that are bought on the world market may have been performing religious duties to the Horde, but they would not have been doing so freely.

OOC: In case anyone thinks that this does not make sense in context of the arguments presented against me, I went digging through the thread for some of NinjaCow's posts, in an attempt to get to the root of the issue.

To Yunnan/501st Legion
From: Golden Horde

It is saddening that the 501st is so ignorant of international norms and customs that it feels the need to recycle the Noodler absurdities that nation spawned in a bid to justify its aggressive actions. Needless to say, since the 501st seems affected by the same ignorance of international norms as the Noodlers were afflicted by, the unilateral revokation and outright violation of binding treaties is ordinarily considered a grave matter tantamount to a declaration of war. The Noodlers in doing what they proposed would of been engaging also in direct economic attacks on the Golden Horde, and thus their hostility would of been compounded.

Finally, we are dissapointed that the 501st feels the need to resort to the fallacy of assuming that Noodlers misinterpretation of what the Horde said suddenly makes their actions legitimate on the basis of misunderstanding of our intent. They may have misunderstood what we meant, but they signed a treaty guaranteeing our rights, that they misunderstood what we meant originally is entirely irrelevant as such, since it is the treaty and its binding obligations that mattered.

-

ooc: and in digging up ninjacows posts, you digged up his discredited errors on the matter

Oh and KE, slavery is newly efficient due to population decline and the intensive labour required to produce modern high technology! (those soul forges don't fuel themselves!)

 

[Kinich-Ahau]

To Yunnan/501st Legion
From: Golden Horde

It is saddening that the 501st is so ignorant of international norms and customs that it feels the need to recycle the Noodler absurdities that nation spawned in a bid to justify its aggressive actions. Needless to say, since the 501st seems affected by the same ignorance of international norms as the Noodlers were afflicted by, the unilateral revokation and outright violation of binding treaties is ordinarily considered a grave matter tantamount to a declaration of war. The Noodlers in doing what they proposed would of been engaging also in direct economic attacks on the Golden Horde, and thus their hostility would of been compounded.

Finally, we are dissapointed that the 501st feels the need to resort to the fallacy of assuming that Noodlers misinterpretation of what the Horde said suddenly makes their actions legitimate on the basis of misunderstanding of our intent. They may have misunderstood what we meant, but they signed a treaty guaranteeing our rights, that they misunderstood what we meant originally is entirely irrelevant as such, since it is the treaty and its binding obligations that mattered.

The breaking of the treaty- if indeed the actions of the Iron Chef would have constituted a breaking of the treaty- would not have been itself a declaration of war. Yes, it would have been aggressive & provocative, and it would have given the Horde a legitimate reason to wage war on the Noodle Republic, but it would not have been a declaration of war.

Furthermore, just as states have the right to enter into treaties, they have the right to withdraw from them. Consider this example: One of the Golden Horde's allies experiences a change in leadership, and as a result, begins an ethnic cleansing campaign within their borders. Several states, in response to this, form a coalition against said state- a coalition that would surely be capable of beating the Horde & any allies of the Horde. Would you then be obligated to defend your genocidal ally- and yourself get wiped out in the process- or would it not be better for the Horde in such a situation to declare the treaty of alliance null & void in light of the changing circumstances? When the Noodle Republic learned of what slavery in the Golden Horde was actually like, he requested that the Treaty be renegotiated, and when the Horde refused this- actually quite reasonable- request, the Iron Chef threatened to exercise his right as the ruler of a sovereign realm to withdraw from the Lhasa Trade treaty.

 

[Mosher]

Doesn't the existence of machine-driven industry and agriculture make slavery obsolete anyway, with the exception of very poor minor powers?

People have to operate those machines.


In the American South, actually, it was the result of new machines making cotton picking more efficient that revived slavery in the region after quite a few years of unprofitability.

 

[Tyo]

I think it has more to do with money circulation. Rather than having a bunch of slaves being paid nothing, thus purchasing nothing, having a labor force that has to contribute directly to the flow of money to do anything is more profitable to most industrial economies. With mass production, industrial economies rely more heavily on selling the good than producing them as it was when slavery was widely popular.

 

[Nukeknockout]

To: All trading partners.
From: Tayloristan

In addition to the diamonds and military equipment already sold by our country, Tayloristan is now willing to offer our unique and voracious wildlife! The catalog is as follows:

Jungle Scorpion (Scorpionus Arborealis
The Jungle Scorpion never sleeps, can see in the dark, has a sting which can shatter bone, can climb vertical concrete walls, only eats creatures it can set on fire, and deflects bullets with its armored exoskeleton! In addition, this little avenger of wrongs has been known to track potential prey for up to a month across hundreds of kilometers! Buy today, give them the scent of the criminal you want caught, and watch your newest member of the police department go to work.

Treejumper Climbus Arborealis
This little four-limbed beast is extremely territorial, highly flammable, strictly herbivorous and has twenty razor sharp claws! Watch as he jumps from telephone pole to telephone pole in your home city for today's low low price!

Pitcher Tree Carnis Treeus Helpus Ohis Pleaseus
This huge, deep-rooted plant uses its animate branches to toss prey up to 400 kilograms into the pool of sweet nectar at its base, where tendrils at the bottom hold the prey in place to drown so their nutrients can be absorbed by the tree! For the megalomanically insane, absurdly rich, yet utterly lonely individuals who comprise the top .5% of any civilized society! Buy for your friend today! CAUTION: Tayloristan refuses any responsibility for missing gardeners, sweet daughters, hobos, mayors, vigilantes, or jilted lovers as a result of Pitcher Trees.

Megaspider Arachnis Titanus
To be perfectly frank, we have no idea how this thing even exists and have none in captivity. But for a million dollars and a waiver absolving us of any and all responsibility, we'll capture one, lock it in a steel crate welded inside another crate and sealed in a specialized airship cargo bay the exterior of which is patrolled by guards and deliver it to you in person!

To: Police State of Cameroon, Warrior Realm of Angola, Orderly State of Kenya, Abyssian Empire
From: Tayloristan

Tayloristan is willing to offer its friends our unique flotation gases as part of our favorable relationship. With these gases, you can field your own airships if you choose. CAUTION: Do not release in large quantities near radiation zones.

 

[Sonereal]

I
Secondly, the 501st's actions in no way would have resulted in a 'General War' in the East; we declared our intention to protect the Noodle Republic against the Golden Horde only; the 501st would have stayed out of any Crimson-Noodler War. The Crimson King's actions would have been responsible for the escalation of the conflict into an East Asian War should he have decided to intervene in favor of the Golden Horde in any hypothetical Horde-Noodle war.

Let us straightened out the fact that we were the ones being blockaded. Any intervention would've occured with or without the Golden Horde, and the fact is is that the coalition consisted of eighteen countries, including six out of eight major powers providing full military support. Had the 501st joined, the war would've been pointlessly escalate from mere military intervention to general war.

Doesn't the existence of machine-driven industry and agriculture make slavery obsolete anyway, with the exception of very poor minor powers?

No. The slave trade only ended in real life due to major powers restricting the trade. Had the slave trade been allowed and not intervened with, the price of slaves would've dropped back down to economic levels. The slave trade ended mainly because of moral/political realities being enforced upon the economic realm, which is a good thing OOC, but extremely important to remember.

 

[Tani Coyote]

I had forgotten all about going out of town for the weekend.

Lock shall be on Monday instead.

 

[Sonereal]

Huzzah.

 

[Kinich-Ahau]

Let us straightened out the fact that we were the ones being blockaded. Any intervention would've occured with or without the Golden Horde, and the fact is is that the coalition consisted of eighteen countries, including six out of eight major powers providing full military support. Had the 501st joined, the war would've been pointlessly escalate from mere military intervention to general war.

Perhaps I have not been making myself clear; we are aware that the Crimson King was almost certainly going to have a military conflict with the Noodle Republic; however, unless the Crimson King had an alliance with the Golden Horde- and no public records point to such an alliance existing- the Golden Horde's war with the Noodlers would have been a separate confrontation than any Crimson-Noodler War; the 501st Legion would have only gotten involved with the Horde-Noodle War, not the Crimson-Noodle War; hence our assertion that, should you have elected to turn two separate wars into a single war, the Crimson King would have been responsible for the eruption of a General East Asian War.

 

[Nukeknockout]

Perhaps I have not been making myself clear; we are aware that the Crimson King was almost certainly going to have a military conflict with the Noodle Republic; however, unless the Crimson King had an alliance with the Golden Horde- and no public records point to such an alliance existing- the Golden Horde's war with the Noodlers would have been a separate confrontation than any Crimson-Noodler War; the 501st Legion would have only gotten involved with the Horde-Noodle War, not the Crimson-Noodle War; hence our assertion that, should you have elected to turn two separate wars into a single war, the Crimson King would have been responsible for the eruption of a General East Asian War.

Tayloristan approves this logic. Just because you're at war with the same power doesn't mean you're on the same side.

 

[Sonereal]

Perhaps I have not been making myself clear; we are aware that the Crimson King was almost certainly going to have a military conflict with the Noodle Republic; however, unless the Crimson King had an alliance with the Golden Horde- and no public records point to such an alliance existing- the Golden Horde's war with the Noodlers would have been a separate confrontation than any Crimson-Noodler War; the 501st Legion would have only gotten involved with the Horde-Noodle War, not the Crimson-Noodle War; hence our assertion that, should you have elected to turn two separate wars into a single war, the Crimson King would have been responsible for the eruption of a General East Asian War.

You misunderstand how a coalition works. If the Golden Horde in this example had been part of it, and you attacked it, it would've constituted an attack on the other six full military partners that volunteered in the coalition before the Yellow Chinese did us a favor and collapsed. You would have been judged to be assisting the Noodle Republic as a full military partner. Luckily, none of that came to past since the 501st would've easily added an extra two years maybe to the war.

 

[Mosher]

I think it has more to do with money circulation. Rather than having a bunch of slaves being paid nothing, thus purchasing nothing, having a labor force that has to contribute directly to the flow of money to do anything is more profitable to most industrial economies. With mass production, industrial economies rely more heavily on selling the good than producing them as it was when slavery was widely popular.

KIN has slaves doing menial or difficult tasks no citizen wants to do, such as being farmhands or cleaning the streets.

 

[Sonereal]

KIN has slaves doing menial or difficult tasks no citizen wants to do, such as being farmhands or cleaning the streets.

Crimson Court slavery is largely the same way. Court eunuchs, some are put through the military academies if they're young enough, house servants, accountants, etc. We COULD use them as field hands, but don't feel like it.

 

[Jehoshua]

The Golden Horde sends those who are ready for their moment to the temples, It sends those who are unready to service. Those who have found the way yet are spiritually unready for their moment are freed as true members of the horde.

ooc: Ergo it kills some in the temples, puts some to more traditional work, and frees the remainder.

 

[christos200]

Mongolia is the best, since it does not have slaves.