Muslim hypocrisy?

Bozo and Bronx re-read my first post in this thread please. Not everyone is like you in the world. Some people are afraid to protest against things that cannot be controled. Now showing of "how free we are, so lets enrage someone" can be avoided.
 
Winner said:
Another irrelevant post :p

Because Christians did the same, Muslims can now kill people because some newspaper published blasphemy. Right :shakehead

Get real. Read something about this case and then come back.
No, they cannot. My point was to stop demonizing Muslims when Catholics (Who still do bad things today, but not to the point of killing), Hindus (Caste System!), Buddhist (Dalai Lama, anyway), and etc have done bad things too. Islam is a peaceful Religion, and I know people who are almost like Gandhi who are Muslims. That is what I am trying to say.

I side (Not to the point that the people in the pictures and leaders of the Muslim world are doing) with the people who think what the creators did is utterly stupid.
 
Bozo Erectus said:
It would be nice if Muslims objected to terrorism in the name of Islam, as much as they object to cartoons.

And it would be nice if the US spent more money on helping people than on bombing them. Hypocrisy is every where, it's a fact. Why would a ME care more about american dying because of a lunatic OBL than you about a kid starving to death in an obscure african country ???? You know and I know that what I am paying or what you are paying (some 20 bucks/month I'd say) to have access to the Web and chat with some obscure guys just for the sake of arguing, well those 20$ can save kids for death and give them a chance for a better life. Is that going to make you or me change our life ? no
So please stop patronizing others
 
Mrdie said:
No, they cannot. My point was to stop demonizing Muslims when Catholics (Who still do bad things today, but not to the point of killing), Hindus (Caste System!), Buddhist (Dalai Lama, anyway), and etc have done bad things too. Islam is a peaceful Religion, and I know people who are almost like Gandhi who are Muslims. That is what I am trying to say.

thank you, that what i keep saying too. and btw i loooove your avatar.;)
 
Yeah but "any Muslim to be a true Muslim must kill and rape. Only having accustomed themselves to our right and civilized values they begin to look like men" :rolleyes:

(Just mocking here.... )
 
In all honesty I respect Islamic justice... it's up front, harsh and does not play games. In some respects it's a few hundred years behind the times for sure... but... Child molesters, rapists, murderers and others are delt with when found guilty. In the west we have to try and make them better, and suprise, the majority strike again and again. Lord forbid we put down our miscreant members of society that prove time and time again they can not function as decent human beings.
 
I haven't read this whole thread and this may be off topic but concerning the recent riots in Australia and many Western European nations, I was surprised to learn there are actually ghetto communities made wholly of immigrants from the Muslim Middle East and North Africa.

For the exception of Detroit and perhaps LA, in most major American cities you will find that Middle Eastern and N. African immigrants live in regular middle class neighborhoods and pretty much dress live everybody else. I've only seen maybe two or three Muslim women with headscarves in my lifetime and I've never seen a Muslim man in traditional dress.

Where my parents live there are two Iranian families who are both very successful and live in big house. I know the kids from one of the families and they are both embarrassed about their own religion and traditions. I attribute this to the fact that American schools can really pressure kids into conforming to certain styles.

My question is, why do many European nations and Australia have these problems of integration?

I also find it ironic that tension and hatred against Muslims in the US (everybody is starting to get angry at our crappy government) seems to be lessening, while after these riots in Australia and Europe, Muslims and immigrations have become issues of contention. 9/11 seems to be out of the minds of most people I know and concern for government corruption and poor economic factors are at the forefront.
 
Riesstiu IV said:
My question is, why do many European nations and Australia have these problems of integration?
Because the Arab immigrants here are mostly poor uneducated people.

Thus they are less likely to learn or even already speak the local language and thus also less likely to provide a perspective for their children within their new home country. The language thing alone hinders alot of chances for the newer generations.

You mentioned that those Muslims you know are Iranians. Now Iranians immigrants are mostly political migrants, i.e. people who left Iran because of the political changes there in 1979 and later. These are often middle or upper class people who had been rather wealthy and, what is especially important, educated in Iran already.

The Muslim immigrants in Europe are mostly from Arab countries, Turkey and in the UK's case also Pakistan. And the vast majority of them are economical migrants, thus people who don't leave because they actually don't like the customs or politics of their home countries but because of hoping for a better life (financially) in Europe. So they don't exactly come to live in a different society, they come to live better, if possible with giving up as less of their traditions as possible.
Combine that with the economic problems of Western Europe, like unemployment which often hits the most unskilled people, thus many immigrants, and you begin to get the picture.
 
Riesstiu IV said:
...For the exception of Detroit and perhaps LA, in most major American cities you will find that Middle Eastern and N. African immigrants live in regular middle class neighborhoods and pretty much dress live everybody else...

That is the exact reason, it is easier to integrate for a IT ingeneer than for a jobless youngster. People, ie middle class people, don't like poors
 
I totally agree - it appears that most Muslims seem to remain mum - if not openly rejoicing - another terrorist bombing of an Israeli school bus or commercial center, or the 9/11 attacks, or the Madrid and London bombings, etc. However, when some little newspaper satirizes that and ridicules that apparent fact, it's a horrible thing and it's time to call for a holy war against all Danes and Europeans and others who support it.
Now, I don't necessarily agree with the apparent portayal of Muslims as terrorists in those cartoons, but then again I step back, look at the context of the world we live in, and I do also have to acknowledge that radical Islamism has been on the rise and that it is in fact, unfortunately, becoming increasingly difficult to identify Islam the religion separately from Islamism the extremist/terroristic ideology.

I have a Palestinian classmate, and she's my friend and all, but recently in our Spanish class we had to write a letter to the editor of a newspaper about why a hypothetical person should not have been selected "Person of the Year" - it was no surprise to any of us when she chose Ariel Sharon. The things she said - that he's a devil and stuff like that... I could not help but take note of the total hypocrisy. Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but this past year has it not been Sharon who practically isolated himself from his own political party when he pulled out troops and settlements from Gaza and the West Bank, in the hope of finding peace and compromise with the Palestinians? She mentioned he ordered the killing of many innocent Palestinians and uprooted many from their homes during raids that were carried out after every terrorist bombing. But was it not Palestinian groups that were responsible, likewise, for the deaths of other innocents - among them children as well - when schoolbuses, markets, cafes, and other Israeli venues were suicide-bombed?
And during the week that Sharon was hospitalized and comatose for a few days, she was all happy and stuff and we asked her why is she so happy that a man is comatose, perhaps on the verge of dying and her response was, in an outraged tone as if it was the worst thing anyone could ask her, "Why would I pray for my enemy?". Hmm... I don't think God or Allah or whatever you wanna name the divine powers would condone this kind of statement - if anything, the divine power would preach that you pray even for your enemies.
I mean if she condemned Sharon for the bad things he did while acknowledging that the suicide-bombers were no angels either, then fine - it would be objective and there would be significantly less bias in it. But she blatantly has bias and I mean there are times when I wonder... if a radical Islamist came into her mosque and told the attendees to go kill non-Muslim "infidels", would she be willing to do it and kill her own friends?
And it's like she thinks she's holier than us and that we're on the wrong path or some thing like that and she seems an almost-fanatical believer, so it's kind of like wondering if I might one day go to school and never come back home because she blew herself up in our classroom, wondering if the person I call my friend might one day turn around and kill me "because her religion wanted it to happen".
 
Honestly Kam these are things I have been dealing with myself for some time. The obvious double standard built inot the muslim faith is just silly. I've talked wioth groups of Arab guys from Jordan, drinking beers and eating some italian combo's at my old deli in Yonkers. This was a few weeks after 9/11 and a few weeks before I left for my first tour.

Basicly they told me the jews suck, bush sucks and yada yada yada.

I asked them what they could have done about it in recent history.

They said nothing and I laughed. Mind you I knew these guys well and we all liked one another.

I told them they could have won in 48, 67 or 73 and solved all there problems. They all just nodded and had a chuckle, calling me a few choice terms I have come to love like " f'ing yank "

Problem is, the major arab nations discovered this too late in regards to israel... it pays to be a winner. They had the chance to deal with them three times and failed. They should be lucky Israel gave back the land in the first place.

I know also that the fact the british and french basicly drew lines on a map and said " vola, the mid east " does not help neither. Yet these people have had the chance time and time again to make something happen and since the Turks had control it really has not been happening.

Let them point the finger at whomever... still won't solve any problems in that region. Just imagine if they did not have oil, were would they be then?
 
Yeah, and I mean it's wrong to think "well this person is Muslim so how long until he/she comes in with a bomb and blows us up" but then again, the message sent by the apparent majority of not just Muslim leaders but also Muslim "rank-and-file" (couldn't think of a better, less-offensive term right now) is that "Islamist terrorism and extremism is good and anythink and anyone that says it's not is unholy, evil, and should be the target of the next suicide-bomber". I oppose the notion that Islam is a religion that has terrorism written into it as like the code of honor and true belief or whatever, but then again, the statements and actions we see made by so many Muslims are painting the portrait of Islam extremely negatively. I still remember the footage of people in Palestine celebrating, flashing V-for-Victory signs, etc. on the day of and days after the 9/11 attacks and I was horrified at this. And then another newsreport I'd see about the Palestine/Israel conflict, a Muslim Palestinian family was an uninentional victim of an Israeli anti-terrorist assault mission and suddenly they're all crying and saying that these were innocents who died, that the perpetrators are criminals and should be punished, etc. Yet when a tragedy like that happens to Israel or USA or some other pro-Western country, it's like a national holiday.
 
naziassbandit said:
Winner is a troll, I think. He is smart: He knows he is wrong but is not willing to accept it.

Terrorists and extremists are a minority, they often are induviduals driven by need revenge. They abuse the religion, they don't represent it.


Hail teh psychoanalyst !:rolleyes: ;)
 
I would say off the top of my head that this is the most well disguised troll thread ever.:rolleyes:
 
I don't understand how it's a troll...
Let's look at some of the points made here:
-Whenever someone so much as mildly satirizes the situation in the Islamic world and society, particularly the issue of Islamism and terrorism, there is a whole outcry for revenge and anger among the Muslim leading authorities and many Muslim people. Fact or fiction? Fact - some of the journalists and cartoonists have been forced into hiding due to death threats. I'd say that's a fact, not a troll.
-When action is taken against a terrorist cell, there is a seemingly pan-Muslim outcry of despair and condemnation of the people who undertake that anti-terrorist action because "innocent children and bystanders get killed", yet when a suicide-bomber blows apart a bus full of Israeli schoolchildren who had nothing to do with any Israeli military actions that the terrorists may be retaliating against, there is either open celebration and V-for-Victory signs or noone says anything to condemn the suicide-bombers... and those who don't condemn, condone. Is this a fact or simply a fiction intended as a troll? Fact - only rarely have I heard of Muslim authorities condemning the terrorist attacks and trying to convince their followers that supporting and carrying out suicide-bombings is not a free ride into paradise. And, as I have already mentioned, right after the 9/11 attacks, there was nothing but joy in Palestine.
-Islamism appears to have a major influence and support among the Muslims. Fact or fiction? This, too appears factual, as many Muslims appear indeed to despise Israelis and Westerners and the suicide-bombers usually target them.

Now, tell me, where did we start trolling? Because so far I thought we were stating facts.
 
Islamism appears to have a major influence and support among the Muslims.

nah, really?

This thread, along with many others I have seen concerning "muslimist outrage" over the cartoons, is little more than a circle jerk for an aggressive stance towards countries and used as an excuse for why we should "pound some sense into them."

It is true that this sort of thing happens. The facts that you mentioned are indeed facts. I myself would criticize some aspects of Islam.

I just find it funny, because, in a way, these "nationalists in disguise" are the REAL people who are flipping out over the cartoons.:lol:
 
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