Muslim hypocrisy?

[ThERat]

another story:
when I was a primary 1 student, my teacher told the whole class that I would go to hell since I am an atheist. Did I go round and asked my family to shoot her since she insulted me?
I learned my lesson and decided that no religion or other ideology would ever get to tell me how to behave. I can decide for myself what is ok (+ I am bound by the laws of my country).

If we had to follow every single religion's taboos we might as well shoot ourselves in the head right away.

 

[Gelion]

The problem is that we do not see much public outcry about terroism. If someon is going to say this is not so, then show me. Many people here are against Islam because we some of it's believers going around killing people and we se the vast majority of the rest saying nothing bad about these people. It seem that the minority of Muslims are rejecting there terroristic acts in the name of their religion and their god. That is what gets most people here upset. If it is really a minority that does this, then the majority must show that these are a minority, but we just do not see that. It does not help that we have a Nation that is so inept in doing it's job that there views almost seem to be justified.

As storelax said there is less political freedom in Muslim countires at the moment. Imagine how a leader of any such country will be viewed if he allowed huge protests and debate on this issue. Both the leaders and the people dont want to become targets for their "protest" or even "debate" of this theme. "Westerners" in general can afford going to a demonstration, many other people cannot.

Also you must remember that it is the unhappy minority that is more vocal in general than the "satisfied" majority. How many protested against the war in London? 1 million? How many didn't or still dont give a d***?

IMO this issue works both ways just as there are at least two different standarts on this issue.

 

[Gelion]

another story:
when I was a primary 1 student, my teacher told the whole class that I would go to hell since I am an atheist. Did I go round and asked my family to shoot her since she insulted me?
I learned my lesson and decided that no religion or other ideology would ever get to tell me how to behave. I can decide for myself what is ok (+ I am bound by the laws of my country).

If we had to follow every single religion's taboo,s we might as well shoot ourselves in the head right away.

Ask yourself this. "Nowadays there seems to be more tension between the so called Westerners and Muslims. Some people see this tension as a beginning of a new Religios War worldwide. There are quite a few Muslims in my country with strong feelings about thier religion.
Now should I publish the pictures that will enrage the Danish Muslims and Mulsims worldwide?

If I do I can show off how free we are and now "civilized" we are as we can talk about anything"

If I dont I cant claim that I am totally free and all nice because I was afraid to mock someone else's feelings (or show total disregard for them).

What would you do? What kind of a head should one have to do something that will surely create more tensions around the world. Or was that journalist completely out of touch with the world?

 

[ThERat]

I don't debate that those cartoons where actually silly. However, the reason why they were printed was the self imposed censorship taking place even in Europe.

Now, a newspaper printed those cartoons and all of a sudden the whole of Denmark is at fault? Give me a break. Those people protesting now were only waiting for this opportunity to pressurize Europe.

Give you another example of hypocrisy. When the tsunami struck SE Asia (especially Sumatra), westerners were very eager and fast in giving donations to help the victims. On the other hand, some ME countries (not really poor countries, at least their governments) were very reluctant to help their brothers (sisters not so important) of faith and gave low amounts. Laughable...

 

[Gelion]

I don't debate that those cartoons where actually silly. However, the reason why they were printed was the self imposed censorship taking place even in Europe.

Now, a newspaper printed those cartoons and all of a sudden the whole of Denmark is at fault? Give me a break. Those people protesting now were only waiting for this opportunity to pressurize Europe.

I did say before that the responce was way bigger than the "action'. However people would now identify Denmark with "mocking Islam". Silly? Rather yes than no, but it is largely a fault of that newspaper.
Yes it proved that the "self-imposed ban" can be proken. So what do we get? "We can now say that we can say whatever we want" and "many Muslims hate us even more because we offended their honor (religion). If that goal justified the means then hey you did the right thing.

Give you another example of hypocrisy. When the tsunami struck SE Asia (especially Sumatra), westerners were very eager and fast in giving donations to help the victims. On the other hand, the ME countries (not really poor countries, at least their governments) were very reluctant to help their brothers (sisters not so important) of faith and gave low amounts. Laughable...

I've never studied that, but if it is ture:

Those governments are not perfect and many people there only mind their own business. I am sure glad that Western nations quite often take their responsibility towards humans, humanity and human rights higher than their national (political, personal) goals. It is something that can eb really admired about the West. However still few governments take common responsibility to humanity as seriously. I'm still glad a lot of them send something.....

 

[Shevek]

another story:
when I was a primary 1 student, my teacher told the whole class that I would go to hell since I am an atheist. ....

Which makes a nice point, ThERat.
If their religion is the right one (and that's what Muslims believe) than their need not be such an outcry at all. After all, all the blasphemists will suffer eternal hell in the after life. Really, the muslims should very much pity those poor danish or other sods who dared to offend islam such.

 

[Gelion]

Which makes a nice point, ThERat.
If their religion is the right one (and that's what Muslims believe) than their need not be such an outcry at all. After all, all the blasphemists will suffer eternal hell in the after life. Really, the muslims should very much pity those poor danish or other sods who dared to offend islam such.

You know it works both ways? And for all extreme believers?!! There's something called honor in many peoples lives. If its religion then you better not offend their religion.

 

[HannibalBarka]

I don't debate that those cartoons where actually silly. However, the reason why they were printed was the self imposed censorship taking place even in Europe.

Well now it seems that this "self imposed censorship" is over

Now, a newspaper printed those cartoons and all of a sudden the whole of Denmark is at fault? Give me a break. Those people protesting now were only waiting for this opportunity to pressurize Europe.

Yeah right, they were sitting on their but waitig to find some thing to blame Europe for, give me a break

Give you another example of hypocrisy. When the tsunami struck SE Asia (especially Sumatra), westerners were very eager and fast in giving donations to help the victims. On the other hand, some ME countries (not really poor countries, at least their governments) were very reluctant to help their brothers (sisters not so important) of faith and gave low amounts. Laughable...

And newspaper in the Arab and Muslim world talked about that, saying that it was a shame for their government to help.

I give you another hypocrisy though: western aid for the Tsunami was the biggest ever for such an event, guess why? because among the victims were laods of european tourists

 

[ThERat]

If its religion then you better not offend their religion.

why? My christian teacher also did that to me. And I am told by a lot of religions that I am an infidel and thus end up in hell.
No religion is holy since it's a man made thing to me. Why should they stand above others? Why?

If there is a god he/she would know who is right and wrong and can decide him/herself. I don't need humans to tell me that.

 

[CartesianFart]

another story:

I learned my lesson and decided that no religion or other ideology would ever get to tell me how to

behave​

. I can decide for myself what is ok (+ I am bound by the laws of my country).

If we had to follow every single religion's taboos we might as well shoot ourselves in the head right away.

but i must concur that 'behave' can give reason for people to oppress you.I say 'think' not necessarily the word 'behave'.

 

[ThERat]

Yeah right, they were sitting on their but waitig to find some thing to blame Europe for, give me a break

I am sure far away in Paris, it does look different. I have seen the news from Jakarta about the protests. These protestors ARE waiting for any reason to blame the west.

I give you another hypocrisy though: western aid for the Tsunami was the biggest ever for such an event, guess why? because among the victims were laods of european tourists

I did not debate the hypocrisy taking place in the west. Western politicians can be disgusting when they talk about right and wrong. However, there is a large proportion of the population showing their disgust when things go wrong (e.g. Iraq war, Abu Ghraib etc etc etc).
And that's why a lot of people like me are even more disappointed by what's happening now. For example, Palastine receives a lot of sympathy credit and money as well from the EU. Seeing Palestinian protestors storming the EU-office now makes many people pretty upset.

 

[CartesianFart]

I think what ThERat is trying to say is that moblike mentality is being demostrated in wide Global scale.And the corporations and government officials are exploiting it,with the media being in the middle pretending to be not a participant but the observer.

I find the media[electronic and print]quite suspicious more than public officials.

 

[Lotus49]

Killing/brutal violence is a part of their culture and history, my friends. Every Arab man is armed with a dagger, supposedly. That's just the way they operate. Now, they have oil money, and put on an expensive suit, and things are automatically different? No.

 

[Gelion]

why? My christian teacher also did that to me. And I am told by a lot of religions that I am an infidel and thus end up in hell.
No religion is holy since it's a man made thing to me. Why should they stand above others? Why?

If there is a god he/she would know who is right and wrong and can decide him/herself. I don't need humans to tell me that.

"Eye or an Eye" or "turn the other cheek"?
Most men (women) have something sacred to them be it their beliefs, their parents or their cildren. If you hurt their sacred values you are asking for trouble. Just because you were hurt it doesnt mean that you have the right to do that to somebody else.
I dont care what you belief but if I know that what I say will hurt you I would try to aviod saying that. And not because I've never been hurt/offended before. Its human....simply human.

 

[Gelion]

Killing/brutal violence is a part of their culture and history, my friends. Every Arab man is armed with a dagger, supposedly. That's just the way they operate. Now, they have oil money, and put on an expensive suit, and things are automatically different? No.

Perhaps before judging them you should consider learning your own history? Actions of your people, your traditions and your crimes? Do you have the right to generalize? If you do then please look into the mirror.

 

[Lotus49]

Perhaps before judging them you should consider learning your own history?

I've judged no one. I also would like to add that no one should generalize about 'Muslims'. But it simply reality that violence is very prevalent in the Arab culture, and always has been.

And what exactly do you think you know about MY history anyway, seeing as how you don't even know who I am?

Why talk about reality, when we can get personal, right? Hey, get lost.

 

[classical_hero]

I've never studied that, but if it is ture:

Those governments are not perfect and many people there only mind their own business. I am sure glad that Western nations quite often take their responsibility towards humans, humanity and human rights higher than their national (political, personal) goals. It is something that can eb really admired about the West. However still few governments take common responsibility to humanity as seriously. I'm still glad a lot of them send something.....

If? IF? Obviously you did not pay much attention to this disaster. We were giving our billions, whereas many muslim Countries were doing nothing.

 

[ThERat]

I dont care what you belief but if I know that what I say will hurt you I would try to aviod saying that. And not because I've never been hurt/offended before. Its human....simply human.

Agreed, else I wouldn't have been able to live in different cultures in the first place. But there is a limit and it has to be a two-sided way. This means tolerance, a pretty important word and value to me. Unfortunately, religion is too often used to kill tolerance and impose ideas on others, not just Islam, any sort of religion in one way or another (maybe bhuddism seems to be a positive exception in this respect)

 

[Gelion]

I've judged no one. I also would like to add that no one should generalize about 'Muslims'. But it simply reality that violence is very prevalent in the Arab culture, and always has been.

And what exactly do you think you know about MY history anyway, seeing as how you don't even know who I am?

Why talk about reality, when we can get personal, right? Hey, get lost.

Killing/brutal violence is a part of their culture and history, my friends. Every Arab man is armed with a dagger, supposedly. That's just the way they operate. Now, they have oil money, and put on an expensive suit, and things are automatically different? No.

Generalization? I think so.... Judgement? Hell yeah. If you were talking about Arabs (which I think you were) then this thread is about Muslims.

So where are you from? From your other posts I see you as American. Am I wrong?

 

[Gelion]

If? IF? Obviously you did not pay much attention to this disaster. We were giving our billions, whereas many muslim Countries were doing nothing.

I said that I didn't know/forgot the exact figures on how much money was donated per country. I'm rather inclined to think that the West gave a lot more. However as it is a thing of the past I do not tend to keep such figures in my head for long. If I need them I can always look them up.