My experience with game

[Farm Boy]

It's a system designed to generate consent, not competency except as byproduct. I don't know that this is entirely off track. Data is getting bigger, consent might be somewhat antiquated in this sense, maybe "competency" will rise.

 

[riddleofsteel]

Mary was jumped from like 3 different people at once for stating her beliefs and didn't back down. The same happens to Valka and Mouthwash often times. That person just wanted to have his ridiculous position accepted as the end-all be-all of truth and when it didn't work out, he quickly ran out of ammunition and gave up.

To say it as sexist as humanly possible:

He needs to grow a pair. CFCOT isn't about coddling, it isn't a right-wing hugbox and it isn't a left-wing circlejerk. If you voice an opinion you have to be ready to accept criticism from all sides.

Did you just assume my gender? Okay, I'll play. First, I need to own a few things. Apart from having an unpopular thing to say, the biggest mistake I made was using the term 'supremacy' in haste. I tried to tone what I was saying and completely spaced when I got to that. Not for one second do I believe that there are female 'supremacists' plotting to lop off all the dongs and scrotums in the world. I should have used the term 'special privilege' which is a far cry from equality. I was referring to women I had known growing up that wanted all the 'power' (if you can call it that) of being a man without the societal expectations and restrictions. You can't clamor for equality and then use the 'but I'm a woman' card when there's an obstacle in your way. That happens. It's not a rare occurrence. How can you disagree with that? I never once stated that I had bad feelings against women at all. One of the things my wife loved the most about me when we were dating was that I deferred to her and put her feelings and wishes first, and still do. I also acknowledged to her the bad reputation men have for mistreating women, and how I felt vicarious shame for that reason.As a husband, there's absolutely nothing I wouldn't do for my wife or my mother even if it meant losing my life in the process. I feel it's the right thing to do. But I would say that obliging sacrifices like that from men who are strangers simply because they're men is sexism and wrong. And because I have lived in something of a bubble, it truly didn't occur to me that a political 'overlay' can be forced over what I say and do as a person even if I eschew politics. I get that now, but I still don't view myself as political. My feelings, your labels. Doesn't make you right or me wrong. What I stated in my post were things I had seen and heard in my life. Why am I being ridiculed for that?

So, @yung.carl.jung to you I'll say directly: I didn't run out of 'ammo', if you can call it that. I don't view this as a war. Why do you? I thought the best choice was to buzz off. Because after I got swarmed with responses that only addressed out of context things, put words in my mouth, and attributed motives and views to me that just aren't there, I figured I wasn't going to be dealing with sane, rational people. And right off the bat I have @MaryKB regurgitating the same boilerplate one-way response I've seen so many times, but to make it even better, she completely misquoted me. I had said 'some of the worst behavior I had seen'. Mary was then happy to put that as 'the worst behavior I have seen'. I grew up in rural New England, the guys were absolutely the worst in every category, by far. I have had numerous janitorial jobs and I've never seen such unhygienic vandalism in a mens room as I did in a womens room. I've also never seen harassment and bullying, either in school or public, committed as badly by males as I have with females. So, some of the most extreme examples were females, but many fewer instances by far. I never stated otherwise. Why would I want to be drawn into a debate with someone so set against a fair discussion, who won't even respect me enough to accurately repeat what I said? Not to mention the rest of the toxic posts and replies in the past. What privilege do I have? Who's overlord am I? Who's 'they'? I live paycheck to paycheck with a wife and child and my bank account is currently overdrafted. Mary might make more money in a year that I can dream of. She got to wher she is by her own abilities, which I applaud strongly. But who is oppressing her, exactly? She might be better off than billions of men. If criticism of any kind is perceived as sexism even by a minority of others on here, why should I be dragged for having the common sense to pump the brakes for a bit? Unreasonable and ridiculous, indeed.

So you can call me ridiculous, or unreasonable. I think I've been more reasonable and am less ridiculous than a fair number of people here. All I ever set out to do was to offer a counterpoint to the balderdash I was seeing making it seem like women are largely misunderstood, infallible unicorns. Did I do it right? Hell no. Am I wrong? Also hell no. I was too dumb to realize that there was ample statistics posted a few pages earlier proving that to be utter falsehood. My bad for not taking a vacation day and reading the whole thread. But clearly hard facts didn't stop the fallacy, and I lost my self control. So there you go. I piped up and only got vitriolic straw responses, words put in my mouth, and basically made out to be a poop-flinging primate when you don't know a thing about me, nor seem eager to be rational. Apart from not agreeing with me or not liking the way I said things, you have nothing on me and can't prove a single thing I said wrong. But I know you'll try. If I'm going to be maligned in absentia, I might as well go all in.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

So, what predictors can really be used? Or are we stuck with "elect them and hope, then boot them if it goes bad." That, by the way, is a strong argument against term limits.

I don't know. If I knew I could be a lot more confident in making selections, and so could everyone else.

What's worse, even MEASURES are noisy, so you wind up with not only an issue finding predictive factors, but also difficulty simply evaluating who did well given their surrounding situation.

For example, you can quantify whether someone gets legislation passed, but that doesn't tell you much about the quality of the legislation, which could easily be net harm.

 

[Farm Boy]

I figured I wasn't going to be dealing with sane, rational people.

I'm not sure you are. What would have made you think that we would be? We're all sorts of messed here. Seems pretty normal.

People really want to fight what they want to fight. Careful reading is counterproductive, often enough. Do it myself sometimes, usually try to feel bad enough to correct and refine. Call recalcitrance on that front what it is: lying.

 

[riddleofsteel]

I'm not sure you are. What would have made you think that we would be? We're all sorts of messed here. Seems pretty normal.

People really want to fight what they want to fight. Careful reading is counterproductive, often enough. Do it myself sometimes, usually try to feel bad enough to correct and refine. Call recalcitrance on that front what it is: lying.

Not sure if you're calling me a liar, but thanks.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I've also never seen harassment and bullying, either in school or public, committed as badly by males as I have with females.

I can moderately agree with this, if we specify we are talking about within their gender. I would much rather be a boy being bullied by boys than a girl being bullied by girls. That doesn't change the fact that girls are also bullied by boys, and boys just aren't.

 

[Farm Boy]

Boys aren't bullied by girls? Is that the assertion? Are we talking about real people or are we talking about people through the lens of political language and power systems?

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

Slightly off-subject, I'm not sure why but this entire thread makes me kind of uncomfortable.

 

[red_elk]

She got to wher she is by her own abilities

I wouldn't readily assume that, talking about white American. Besides, people who got somewhere by their own abilities usually don't whine about being underprivileged.

That doesn't change the fact that girls are also bullied by boys, and boys just aren't.

Witnessed that a number of times, in fact was being bullied myself, just not physically. With boys, you can at least fight back.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Boys aren't bullied by girls? Is that the assertion? Are we talking about real people or are we talking about people through the lens of political language and power systems?

On a measuring scale that can effectively be used to show how boys bully girls, yeah, the assertion is that girls bullying boys just doesn't even show up. Most men's recollections of being 'bullied' by girls boils down to "I wasn't on the football team so I couldn't get laid, those mean ol' girls." Most women's recollections of being bullied by boys revolve around how when their breasts started to show they got chased around the playground, wrestled down, and molested.

 

[Farm Boy]

Wow, that's a totally divergent experience. Small middleschool/highschool though, and it was the 90s. The click of socially influential girls going after somebody didn't look like an absence of sex, it generally looked like pariahood outside of the people big enough in subclicks to buck the attempted shame. Getting simply beaten up is not the same thing as getting molested, no.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Wow, that's a totally divergent experience. Small middleschool/highschool though, and it was the 90s. The click of socially influential girls going after somebody didn't look like an absence of sex, it generally looked like pariahood outside of the people big enough in subclicks to buck the attempted shame. Not the same thing as getting molested, no. Those are also divergent as awful experiences.

Maybe "empowerment" had made more headway by your time. In the 70s the socially influential girl clique still had basically zero direct impact on the lives of boys. If they really didn't like some boy they might bully girls who dared to defy them and admitted to liking him, but if they tried any sort of overt bully behavior they would just get laughed down by the entire male population. So, yeah, his complaint would boil down to 'couldn't get laid, dratted mean girls.' It might also be related, as noted, to just bigger schools. In a big enough school even the pariahs have a clique of their own. I was a dope dealer, so I was clique-less but accepted everywhere, and the people in the pariah cliques didn't really seem to have it that much worse than the people in the "upper" cliques.

 

[Farm Boy]

I mean pariah. MS was 100. HS was 200. Emotional abuse is real and teens have crappy saving throws.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I mean pariah. MS was 100. HS was 200. Emotional abuse is real and teens have crappy saving throws.

Yeah, that's a whole different world. And people wonder why their kids bail as soon as they can and never come back.

 

[Farm Boy]

I find it tremendously unlikely that it's actually the size difference that made it so rather than your experience. It just made it easier to see. Most of the pariahs eventually found shelter, and most of the beatings stopped by late high school. My experience in larger districts has been simply a reduction in the baseline level of treatment. So maybe there's the benefit of reduced expectations of decency.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I dunno man. "Pariah" sounds really lonely. I'm sure that the feeling of being cast out by the supposed "cool kids" must still suck, but if you at least have some other cast outs to hang around with it has to be better, doesn't it? I suppose somewhere in my school maybe there was that one kid that was just cast out by everybody and I just never met them...

 

[Farm Boy]

Even the smears at Columbine had each other. I think our divergence of thought isn't in alone alone alone. It's in how weak the saving throws are. Some of them really suck at it. Considering how worked up I still occasionally get about some jackass on the internet it's amazing they don't pop more frequently. There is a lot of love out there in counterbalance.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Even the smears at Columbine had each other. I think our divergence of thought isn't in alone alone alone. It's in how weak the saving throws are. Some of them really suck at it. Considering how worked up I still occasionally get about some jackass on the internet it's amazing they don't pop more frequently. There is a lot of love out there in counterbalance.

Yeah. We should focus more on that. Love ya man.

 

[Hygro]

Reading and trying to understand Farm Boy's posts is a growing pain and awkward discomfort that never passes

He keeps his allusions tight so the payoff is assured.

 

[Farm Boy]

Teatherball! Biff baff boo!