My experience with game

[Valka D'Ur]

I know a number of people, men and women who didn't get where they are by their own abilities. Some of them inherited property, other were helped by their parents to get job and education. Third married to young student who made successful career soon after. Why "sleeping through" is the only thing which came to your mind is beyond me.

Mary didn't inherit her job, nor did her parents get it for her. She also didn't get it by marrying anyone. If you'd read some of her earlier posts, you would realize these things.

But it was clear what I meant by "normal". Your reply was irrelevant to my post then.

It was clear to you, and after thinking about your post, it was clear to me what you meant. However, that doesn't mean you're not mistaken.

 

[rah]

I don't think it's realistic to expect people to read every post a person has made before making a comment.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Wow, that's a totally divergent experience. Small middleschool/highschool though, and it was the 90s. The click of socially influential girls going after somebody didn't look like an absence of sex, it generally looked like pariahood outside of the people big enough in subclicks to buck the attempted shame. Getting simply beaten up is not the same thing as getting molested, no.

I saw some of this. In that timeframe girls tended towards verbal harassment/spreading rumors (only some of which were true) --> pariahood, boys tended towards more physical harassment, though opposites weren't out of the question (girl on girl physical abuse, pariahood for boys who joined sports team but didn't try, persisting after quitting). Varied significantly between the schools I was aware of too (family went to different high school than me). My high school had ~2k students so there were a lot of sub-cliques and politics of interaction, rumors ranging from plausible to flat-out bizarre.

 

[Farm Boy]

I guess I wasn't specific enough about the comment about subclicks, I am thinking it's important enough I should have phrased it better. "People big enough in subclicks to buck the attempted shame" wasn't a description intended to apply to a target, it was (usually) intended to apply to the people who would eventually grant shelter and social cohesion to those in need. They usually took a while to find and recognize the need. They still do, more slowly if anything, for being adults.

 

[MaryKB]

Thank you so much @Valka D'Ur.

I've had to work really hard to get where I am, despite being held down, and not being appropriately paid for my work. I've watched my male colleagues receive credit for my work and get promoted past me despite not providing value like I do. I owe a lot of my career progress these last few years to my current boss, a woman who's done so much to help me get recognized and rewarded for what I'm doing. But anyway, privilege isn't about how much money you make, it's how you're treated by society for how you're perceived, and women don't receive respect and benefit of the doubt like men do, if you don't believe that well then you really do need to start learning about gender issues from the beginning.

And you don't have to literally say something to make implications clear, I see people doing that all the time, alluding to something so you know clearly what he means, but he tries to be just vague enough so when you confront him about it, he throws up his hands and says "I didn't actually say that! You're the one thinking that!", and I feel it's really quite silly. You know very well how women are put down for success not because of her talents, but because she's providing sexual favors, and when you suggest a career woman has been successful not because of her talents, but because "of something else", you're being crystal clear what you mean without you having to explicitly state it.

Well anyways, what a mess lol. Sometimes now I'm thinking this original poster was just promoting a book.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I guess I wasn't specific enough about the comment about subclicks, I am thinking it's important enough I should have phrased it better. "People big enough in subclicks to buck the attempted shame" wasn't a description intended to apply to a target, it was (usually) intended to apply to the people who would eventually grant shelter and social cohesion to those in need. They usually took a while to find and recognize the need. They still do, more slowly if anything, for being adults.

In a larger school like that there are established subcliques going in and some extra/fleeting ones on top of those. And yes, this mostly kept anybody from being a total pariah. Even a few kids who were pretty out there had their circles. Probably the worst would have been getting ousted from one of the really popular groups, that would have left someone a legit pariah for a while.

 

[Farm Boy]

Yar. Shelter is simply what it is though. If emotional abuse is real, and we seem to be pretty sure it is, it's like getting punched. It makes you doubt and hate yourself. Leads you to believe lies about yourself, about what you do, about what you say, about what you're worth. Nothing unpunches you, but you can still take refuge and grow a tolerance if given the tools to heal.

 

[rah]

and women don't receive respect and benefit of the doubt like men do, if you don't believe that well then you really do need to start learning about gender issues from the beginning.

Or you could work for the company that I do, where a majority of the management team are women. But whenever some poor male complains about it, the rest of us laugh at him. Out of all the bosses that I've had in my 40 years in corporations, my two favorites were both women. They seemed to respect and stand behind their staffs more.

 

[red_elk]

And you don't have to literally say something to make implications clear, I see people doing that all the time, alluding to something so you know clearly what he means, but he tries to be just vague enough so when you confront him about it, he throws up his hands and says "I didn't actually say that! You're the one thinking that!", and I feel it's really quite silly. You know very well how women are put down for success not because of her talents, but because she's providing sexual favors, and when you suggest a career woman has been successful not because of her talents, but because "of something else", you're being crystal clear what you mean without you having to explicitly state it.

I have no idea whether you are a "career woman" and whether you have much to be proud of, at all.
If your first association after reading my post was "sex for job", that's your problem and your projections.

 

[red_elk]

And I stick to what I said in that post - people who made themselves and achieved a lot in their life, by their own means, usually don't complain about "unfair society", prejudices, discrimination, government plot or other circumstances preventing them from achieving success.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

And I stick to what I said in that post - people who made themselves and achieved a lot in their life, by their own means, usually don't complain about "unfair society", prejudices, discrimination, government plot or other circumstances preventing them from achieving success.

Shall we get you a backhoe? Your arms must be tired from using a shovel for all this digging.

 

[Synobun]

And I stick to what I said in that post - people who made themselves and achieved a lot in their life, by their own means, usually don't complain about "unfair society", prejudices, discrimination, government plot or other circumstances preventing them from achieving success.

I don't see how this parses. If anything, someone who fought tooth and nail to get to where they are would be more aware of discriminatory and prejudiced practices than someone who coasted their way to the finish line.

 

[rah]

While they be more aware, in my experience the ones that got it handed to them are the ones that usually complain the most.

 

[red_elk]

Shall we get you a backhoe? Your arms must be tired from using a shovel for all this digging.

Get it for yourself. I didn't work too hard to get where I am.

I don't see how this parses. If anything, someone who fought tooth and nail to get to where they are would be more aware of discriminatory and prejudiced practices than someone who coasted their way to the finish line.

I said they usually don't complain, not that they are unaware.

 

[Synobun]

While they be more aware, in my experience the ones that got it handed to them are the ones that usually complain the most.

There's a drastic difference between complaining and whining.

 

[rah]

Just the tone.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Get it for yourself. I didn't work too hard to get where I am.

I'm not the one digging a hole deeper and deeper, making numerous insulting remarks and inferences about how a female poster got her job and about her life experiences.

As for you not working too hard to get where you are... if you say so. I have a practice of always assuming that whatever people here say about their personal lives and history is the truth, so if you didn't work hard, I believe you.

 

[MaryKB]

I feel that whole line of thinking's completely ridiculous. It's like when you see someone say "Whoever's complaining about invasion of privacy must have something to hide."

So, you say I'm lying about working hard if I talk about struggles I face due to sexism. You're further adding to this by trying to shut down my voice, by telling me if I'm speaking up I must not have earned my job, and once again I'm being forced into a lose-lose situation.

It just never ends, does it?

 

[Farm Boy]

Who is saying this? Who is supposed to read that statement and realize they're saying that, about you?

 

[red_elk]

So, you say I'm lying about working hard if I talk about struggles I face due to sexism.

I said that I don't trust you. And you blamed me in lying about my implications.