"My father hit me with a belt. I turned out OK."

[Farm Boy]

so how do you get from there to...


you will be dealing with this, in the next year or two... ,

I found that talking to your child regularly helps avoid this...
and makes the elementry school teachers job a lot easier

I somehow find it a stretch to think that all random tantrums can neatly be attributed to beating or failing to talk with children. Especially seeing as how any of those factors play neatly enough into stereotypes that they probably would be been jumped all over in the rather sensationalist coverage that briefly flared in the pan over those incidents. It also simply doesn't hold up watching my sister and husband raise my niece. That child has never been spanked nor has she wanted for verbal attention. Children are people not some programming input for which you simply avoid programming errors. They'll vary.

An educated guess based on



would be newton, the SI unit of force.

Ah reading comprehension my old nemesis. I saw "Newtown." That really rather makes more sense.

 

[AlpsStranger]

yeah? what is the appropiate force with which to hit a child without it being abuse in newton?

Don't act stupid. You can tell whether you're brutalizing or spanking someone I think.

 

[Old Hippy]

. It also simply doesn't hold up watching my sister and husband raise my niece. That child has never been spanked nor has she wanted for verbal attention.

and this would be the example of having to use "physical restraint/incapacitation of momentarily out of control children? " by teachers...

 

[JollyRoger]

That's ridiculous. I'm sorry. You can spank a child without being abuse.

Yet most of the adults here seem to consider a yjeoretical non-consensual spanking of themselves (such as by a loving employer) to be abusive.

 

[RobAnybody]

Doesn't surprise me. Truly.

Since you know very little about my personal life, your ignorant comment doesn't surprise me either.

This is interesting. You have, at the time I write this 44,939 posts since your join date of 10/05, which works out to 16.37 posts per day since then. On this site alone.

I think it's reasonable to say, granted unless you've been MisterCooper'ing it the whole time, that people could get a pretty good handle on your personal life.

44,939 posts. I don't think I have that kinda post count on the entire internet. Come on. With great post count comes great responsibility.

 

[MobBoss]

This is interesting. You have, at the time I write this 44,939 posts since your join date of 10/05, which works out to 16.37 posts per day since then. On this site alone.

I think it's reasonable to say, granted unless you've been MisterCooper'ing it the whole time, that people could get a pretty good handle on your personal life.

44,939 posts. I don't think I have that kinda post count on the entire internet. Come on. With great post count comes great responsibility.

Don't be jealous just 'cause I type fast.

And you shouldn't excuse the troll comment from Jeleen either. It was given with nothing more than malice in mind and deserved the (factual) reply it got.

But even with the post count...what do you know of me really? What does anyone know of anyone else being anonymous here (assuming they have only divulged the most general of information)?

Post count ...large or small or the content thereof isnt really a good basis to judge an an anonymous person over the internet on. Especially given the moronic comment by Jeleen. There are plenty of people that have been spanked as a child here that post nothing like I do. So on closer inspection, his post is proven the be utterly worthless thing that is is.

 

[AlpsStranger]

Yet most of the adults here seem to consider a yjeoretical non-consensual spanking of themselves (such as by a loving employer) to be abusive.

My employer isn't responsible for raising me.

 

[Old Hippy]

My employer isn't responsible for raising me.

but he is responsible for your work safety... so a clip around the ears to stop you putting you fingers into a power outlet would seem reasonably

 

[Carras Dad]

Don't act stupid. You can tell whether you're brutalizing or spanking someone I think.

i can tell wether i feel brutalized or spanked. i can absolutely not tell wether someone else will feel brutalized or spanked in advance.

 

[Farm Boy]

and this would be the example of having to use "physical restraint/incapacitation of momentarily out of control children? " by teachers...

I know there's a point there. Perhaps even one that's blindingly obvious to most people, but I'm not sure exactly how to take it.

 

[JollyRoger]

My employer isn't responsible for raising me.

What does that have to do with anything? It wouldn't seem abusive to do to an employee if it is not abusive to do to a child.

 

[Formaldehyde]

This is interesting. You have, at the time I write this 44,939 posts since your join date of 10/05, which works out to 16.37 posts per day since then. On this site alone.

I think it's reasonable to say, granted unless you've been MisterCooper'ing it the whole time, that people could get a pretty good handle on your personal life.

44,939 posts. I don't think I have that kinda post count on the entire internet. Come on. With great post count comes great responsibility.

Don't you find it interesting that virtually no moderates or "lefties" have been advocating corporal punishment in this forum? That even most conservatives don't try to rationalize and defend it any longer?

This particular aspect of the topic was effectively over on page 3 of this thread:

I think the I can beat my kids but You can't rule comes into play here. Those of us who are older certainly remember experiences such as VRWCagent and MobBoss relate. I also was hit, smacked and yelled-at by my coaches back in the day. And don't even get me started on Marine Corps Boot Camp - it's a wonder I'm still alive...

But I would not stand to have a coach treat my kids that way today. Certainly we've managed some social progress. We often hear claims of the Feminization of society, but in my more contemplative moments I have to say that greater civility and manners is not an entirely bad thing.

And Bobby Knight behavior is just one side of the coin. That older ethic also had a sleezy underside - wife beating, child abuse, and racial violence - I say good riddance to bullies.

What a great post. I would love to see someone try to directly refute it.

I'm also going to go out on a limb and say the people who approve of Rice's antics generally overlap with those who support the death penalty and "enhanced interrogation" techniques.

Freedom of speech FTW yet again.

 

[Old Hippy]

I know there's a point there. Perhaps even one that's blindingly obvious to most people, but I'm not sure exactly how to take it.

I am just trying to find out when it is considered ok to hit a child or in this case physical restraint/incapacitation I not really trying to have a go at you, just want an example , no one actually gives one, just the view that it is OK apart from the classic finger in the electrical socket

 

[Farm Boy]

I am just trying to find out when it is considered ok to hit a child or in this case physical restraint/incapacitation I not really trying to have a go at you, just want an example , no one actually gives one, just the view that it is OK apart from the classic finger in the electrical socket

I don't know exactly I guess. I haven't had to deal with it yet. If I had to think about it, things that can cause immediate harm. Hot stoves, chemicals, a road with traffic, something heavy that might be able to be pulled down seem like likely culprits. A kicking/biting tantrum maybe, or shoving over a smaller child, or maybe throwing something at somebody. I'm just guessing at situations really.

 

[Formaldehyde]

One of the things that eventually made me change my own mind is that many parents are quite successful at teaching their children all of that without ever striking them. That they even turn out to be quite well disciplined instead of obnoxious brats.

 

[Old Hippy]

I don't know exactly I guess. I haven't had to deal with it yet. If I had to think about it, things that can cause immediate harm. Hot stoves, chemicals, a road with traffic, something heavy that might be able to be pulled down seem like likely culprits. A kicking/biting tantrum maybe, or shoving over a smaller child, or maybe throwing something at somebody. I'm just guessing at situations really.

So things that if you think about, can be avoided before hand, or things that don't make a lot of sense like don't hit that child because I will hit you, its just that when you do think about them they are readily worked out, but I'm sure you will do a wonderfull job... and make just as many mistakes as the rest of us...

 

[Gucumatz]

One of the things that eventually made me change my own mind is that many parents are quite successful at teaching their children all of that without ever striking them. That they even turn out to be quite well disciplined instead of obnoxious brats.

Well I think many of us here would disagree with your last statement .

I think many in the US have moved to think not hitting children is preferable, which is nice to see. Every person is different, but that simply means there are many different non-violent ways of dealing with your children. Culturally these things take time to be adopted though - We will still see corporal punishment here in the US for a while imo

 

[Farm Boy]

So things that if you think about, can be avoided before hand, or things that don't make a lot of sense like don't hit that child because I will hit you, its just that when you do think about them they are readily worked out, but I'm sure you will do a wonderfull job... and make just as many mistakes as the rest of us...

No, I can't really work out a ton of them unless I keep him inside all the time. As is probably the same for a lot of parents. The road runs right past the house, there is farm equipment outside, there are chemicals stored in the barns, there is on-site fuel. If a child is dead set on reaching towards something that could kill them and they aren't stopping when you politely say "don't do that." No, I don't think deciding to patiently tell them they'll get time out later is necessarily the way to go. Hopefully you can avoid this stuff as best you can. I don't think looking for situations where you "get to justify" a spanking or corporal punishment is healthy. Some things can definitely be eliminated beforehand. I don't store my firearm in my house, I've moved that, as one example.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Proof slapping doesn't work: I just read that Stephen Fry was an enormous smart-arse as a kid, and got severe trashings for that in school.

This is just as valid proof as: I turned out OK.

 

[Old Hippy]

No, I can't really work out a ton of them unless I keep him inside all the time. As is probably the same for a lot of parents. The road runs right past the house, there is farm equipment outside, there are chemicals stored in the barns, there is on-site fuel. If a child is dead set on reaching towards something that could kill them and they aren't stopping when you politely say "don't do that." No, I don't think deciding to patiently tell them they'll get time out later is necessarily the way to go. Hopefully you can avoid this stuff as best you can. I don't think looking for situations where you "get to justify" a spanking or corporal punishment is healthy. Some things can definitely be eliminated beforehand. I don't store my firearm in my house, I've moved that, as one example.

but thats what you just did...
So you will have to spend 100% of your time just watching a todler, waiting for the chance to educate them, when they go to put their hand in the Tractor belt...

and mothers learnt a long time ago that you do not say "don't do that" politely you say "NOOOO!!!"