My take on stuff
- Thread starter Toffer90
- Start date
You could also try merging Slash & Burn and Earth Oven, as two rather underwhelming fire techs.
If nothing else though, you're welcome to integrate my reworked tech locations.
; Nah, it's too different from what I currently have, and i'm quite happy with the locations I've chosen so far.Your tech tree work will be a good basis for upcoming changes to the SVN; what I've done here however are so different that I wouldn't dare to put any of it in the SVN. ^^
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
If I'm following you here, my perspective is extremely nuanced. I loved that as a new player to those techs I initially thought the same, 'What's the point?' But when I realized each of those techs are absolutely some of the best techs on the early tree, I realized that they are not only great as they are but they are all the better because they so easily throw a novice impression off their true value.
In fact, the break they provide from having new things to build being opened up is one of the nicest tricks they give because it gives you time to build your hunters without wasting your time on buildings being unlocked but not being able to be built. And once that's done, you're then all the closer to being able to enhance your production with a few more techs after that that don't take any longer to research than each tech leading up to that point since you've been researching in such a way as to enhance your research without having to build anything further to have it, AND then you can turn back around to more quickly pick up techs AND stay on top of the buildings they then unlock.
Imagine that each of those three techs, scraping, piercing, and chopping, all came along with a building that added +1 research and did so at a build cost of 10 for each building. At that point, it would psychologically offer far greater attraction to research them. It makes it obvious that getting here means you will research faster. BUT it also means that the buildings must be built after getting the tech, which means a wait and production cost before you actually GET the benefit. You'd still be more inclined to shoot for them because the building stats make it obvious you want those techs. But just adding +1 research to the most effective production boosting building of the era for whatever reason just seems invisible at first glance. But the reality is its FAR better than then having to build ANOTHER building to even get the benefit of the tech. It's production FREE and the benefit is IMMEDIATE!
Please don't try to take out this cleverly disguised strategic gem, merge them or minimize them... they are truly two of the best techs to spam for right away so how can they be 'undervalued'?
sunrisereader
Warlord
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2015
- Messages
- 185
i like that the current techs that give the +1 research for the existing building.
Well, I don't think it's necessarily a good idea to have "hidden" options in the game, but I understand your reasoning.
Wow, those JPG artefacts are pretty extensive.
Did you take out Earth Oven? I can't seem to find it on that tree.PNG actually, and no, it's still there.Wow, those JPG artefacts are pretty extensive.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
We're not talking about options, we're talking about something that is easily overlooked for its true strategic value. The ability to spot those things are what define great players and what rewards a player handsomely for figuring out. This is one of the most enjoyable experiences you can set a player up to have - discovery! Is there another reason we play really?
It truly was a mess, and the classical era is no better, the spaghetti just get more and more intertwined the further I go in the tree.
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
I see that Archery was brought back into Preh from Ancient.
And is Shamanism now a bit further along in Preh than before?
Curious why Megafauna Domestication is linked thru Megalith Construction instead of being along side the other Mounted Domestication techs. Not that it's a big deal just curious.
I hope that Flint Maker is now in a usable position as it usually, for me anyway, comes along when I'm about ready to leave Stone weapons behind.
And all these changes are in your Civic set too? I really need to give them a try. But I also want to get further along in my Dangerous Animals/Pest/Disease modmod game. I just hit Med Era last night.
I wonder if Rwn would mind if I rolled those 3 modmods into 1? I'm going to combine both Pests and Disease anyway in the long run.
And now T-brd wants me to try Fof and SM for feedback and getting familiar with them. Even though SM is too much like Squad Leader (an Avalon Hill Board Tactics and Strategy game from the early 80's) to me. My cousins loved it, I didn't, as I liked the larger scale games like Blitzkrieg and D-Day. Starting to ramble now, must have more coffeeeeeee..!
JosEPh
And is Shamanism now a bit further along in Preh than before?
Curious why Megafauna Domestication is linked thru Megalith Construction instead of being along side the other Mounted Domestication techs. Not that it's a big deal just curious.
I hope that Flint Maker is now in a usable position as it usually, for me anyway, comes along when I'm about ready to leave Stone weapons behind.
And all these changes are in your Civic set too? I really need to give them a try. But I also want to get further along in my Dangerous Animals/Pest/Disease modmod game. I just hit Med Era last night.
I wonder if Rwn would mind if I rolled those 3 modmods into 1? I'm going to combine both Pests and Disease anyway in the long run.
And now T-brd wants me to try Fof and SM for feedback and getting familiar with them. Even though SM is too much like Squad Leader (an Avalon Hill Board Tactics and Strategy game from the early 80's) to me. My cousins loved it, I didn't, as I liked the larger scale games like Blitzkrieg and D-Day. Starting to ramble now, must have more coffeeeeeee..!
JosEPh
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
Pottery is Earthenware so not sure what you are trying to achieve here unless you consider pottery as glazed earthen ware. In which case I would rename Pottery to Glaze or Pottery Glaze and have it as a requirement for the glass making tech. It would also allow my pet favorite of "fake gems" to be added in as an effect on beading buildings. Fake lapis and turquoise were considered better than the original in humid climates because they did not tarnish when worn.
Archery made sense as possible before sedentary lifestyle, and shamanism was moved one to the right, I think. I could make it cheaper than the rest of the techs in its column if it proves to take too long to get to relative to druidism.
They are both a "think big" kind of human thinking/activity evolution; it still requires animal husbandry though.
Atlatl making requires flint knapping, so leaving prehistoric without it is now impossible.
Not sure what you mean, but civics has gotten a back seat atm as I keep getting distracted by other stuff that I feel I just have to change first. I have big plans for civics but they are a bit daunting as its a huge amount of work involved.
I think you should leave "dangerous animals" out of the mix; unless you were to make animals affect pests and diseases. It is better for everyone if modmods aren't a mishmash of features.
The AI rarely split and merge atm and you don't have to do it often either, it can actually reduce the amount of units you need to control as you will probably prefer to merge over splitting units. These modules are starting to become integral to C2C imo, and it's not a bad idea to familiarize with them.
Ok, I've started converting the civics beginning with text & name changes, and general XML structure/tidyness. It quickly lead to some name changes in the RULE column.
Any opinions on the RULE category out there? Are the new names better/clearer?
Edit:
Should I rename Kleptocracy to Crooked/Criminal and Stratocracy to Military/Martial?
Vague gets unlocked at chiefdom and council at cultural identity.
Any opinions on the RULE category out there? Are the new names better/clearer?
Edit:
Should I rename Kleptocracy to Crooked/Criminal and Stratocracy to Military/Martial?
Vague gets unlocked at chiefdom and council at cultural identity.
Spoiler :
Liquidated
Goofed Up on Cough Syrup!
Criminal and Martial.
In general, I would keep the names as commonplace as is generally feasible, as there's a ton of non native speakers that have issues with the nooks and crannies of the English Language.
I should know.
Regardless, I was just harping on the rather unappealing civic choices, be interested in seeing what you have in mind.
Cheers!
-Liq
In general, I would keep the names as commonplace as is generally feasible, as there's a ton of non native speakers that have issues with the nooks and crannies of the English Language.
I should know.
Regardless, I was just harping on the rather unappealing civic choices, be interested in seeing what you have in mind.
Cheers!
-Liq
Latest Civic structure.
Recap:
POWER is the general structure of power separation in a society.
RULE is about who embodies, or has major influence over, said structure. Those that even a dictator must bend for sometimes, as they are capable of tearing everything down.
Strongmen: Power is distributed among those who are capable of taking it.
Wisemen: Main power is held by a simple gathering of those regarded as wise. Unlocked at Cultural Identity.
Despotic: Power is held by one ruler; before the time of typical divine sovereignty. Unlocked at Chiefdom.
Oligarchy: A select few holds power. Diarchy, Junta, Other. Unlocked at Bronze Working.
Sovereignty: Ruler appointed by the divine; monarch, caliph, emperor and Sultan (or is sultan more like a despot...?) Unlocked at Monarchy.
Republic: Democratic, from classical Rome until today. Unlocked at Democracy
Parliament: Democratic, unlocked much later than republic. Not necessarily better than republic as it will be one of the weakest POWER civics for warfare. Don't ask me for specifics as I really don't know yet. ^^
Lawspeakers: a Scandinavian phenomenon. Perhaps unlocked at oral tradition or community.
Lineage: unlocked at heritage.
EDIT: Changed Proletarian rule to Majority rule.
Recap:
POWER is the general structure of power separation in a society.
RULE is about who embodies, or has major influence over, said structure. Those that even a dictator must bend for sometimes, as they are capable of tearing everything down.
Strongmen: Power is distributed among those who are capable of taking it.
Wisemen: Main power is held by a simple gathering of those regarded as wise. Unlocked at Cultural Identity.
Despotic: Power is held by one ruler; before the time of typical divine sovereignty. Unlocked at Chiefdom.
Oligarchy: A select few holds power. Diarchy, Junta, Other. Unlocked at Bronze Working.
Sovereignty: Ruler appointed by the divine; monarch, caliph, emperor and Sultan (or is sultan more like a despot...?) Unlocked at Monarchy.
Republic: Democratic, from classical Rome until today. Unlocked at Democracy
Parliament: Democratic, unlocked much later than republic. Not necessarily better than republic as it will be one of the weakest POWER civics for warfare. Don't ask me for specifics as I really don't know yet. ^^
Lawspeakers: a Scandinavian phenomenon. Perhaps unlocked at oral tradition or community.
Lineage: unlocked at heritage.
EDIT: Changed Proletarian rule to Majority rule.
