Myth01- Training Day- Regent

[ngraner42]

That Blue dot city and roading approach seem good. I would produce the Settler in Beijing after the Archer, since it has a Granary and will bounce back quickly.

I think the plan was to irrigate the Canton Wheat to improve its food situation. The Wheat will be 4-1=3. CommandoBob, why do your prefer the mine?

 

[CommandoBob]

Let's do this instead; I think we'll all be satisfied with it.

Blue Dot and Roads, 1750 BC

First, let's allow Beijing to make vArchers.

Second, change the build in Shanghai from vArcher (8 shields to go) to a settler (18 shields to go). Shanghai is making 2 shields per turn.

Next turn, move the two workers onto the forest and chop it. That will take 2 turns. The 10 shields we get from chopping the forest will go to Shanghai (it is closer to the chop that Beijing), leaving only 4 shields to go, or two turns until the settler is produced.

Beijing will have produced a vArcher by now, send it down to Blue Dot. I think it and the settler from Shanghai will show up at the same time.

The workers will then road the chopped tile, now a plain, in one turn. They will continue to road to Blue Dot (the orangish line). Beijing will be our main Archer producer and this road leads directly to Blue Dot from Shanghai and does not cross a river. Blue Dot is seven tiles from Beijing, but we can't help that. After the road to Blue Dot is completed we can extend the road towards Calcutta, but we don't want to have any units, including workers, inside Indian borders on the turn we declare war. Letting that happens gives us a bad trade rep. So we build the road one tile to Calcutta, if at all. Next we road to Canton, the light green line, since it will be able to make Archers faster than Shanghai. Finally, we road to Shanghai, the light blue line.

What all this does is get us a Settler with crippling our vArcher production ability.

@ngraner42: on the Wheat, I don't recall what I was thinking (except that maybe we were out of despotism!). Irrigating it makes sense.

 

[ngraner42]

Sent scouting warriors into Indian territory for a look. Gandhi gave us the get out message and I said it was an accident. I then moved the warriors out. Is there any downside to going to the next level and getting the automatic kick out?

Traded Writing to Gandhi for Iron Working. I figured that since we were going to attack him, trading a non-military tech for a military tech was a good idea. I decided to stop and post screen shots after the Settler was produced, since I would think that grabbing the Iron would take priority but I wanted to post for discussion.

Also found some Tobacco.

 

[CommandoBob]

Stopping to discuss things once the game situation changes is always a good thing.

On Iron
I see three Iron, one of them 2S of Shanghai and two more off to the north and northeast.

I don't see any inside India, so unless Delhi is on a hill under the fog in central India, chances are that India does not have a source of Iron, also.

So, should we try to connect the Iron?

The closest Iron is just 1 tile outside our territorial borders, which means to connect it we would have to plant a colony on it. That will take away a worker and that seems like a steep price to pay for Iron just now. We could build a library in Shanghai (once we know how) and let cultural expansion add the Iron to us. Then we would have to build a road on that mountain.

Given that the price is rather high, what does Iron let us do? Build Swordsman, which cost 30 shield and attack with 3 and defend with 2, instead of building Archers that cost 20 shields, attack with 2 and defend with 1.

Look at India's road network. Calcutta is not connected, so we won't face Swords there. Bombay looks like it wil soon be connected, but none other are.

Beijing is our Military Factory. It currently produces 6 shields per turn and after this turn, will produce 7 sheilds per turn. It grows on this IBTand the new citizen will work the remaining irrigated plains tile. It will still take 3 more turns to make this current Archer, but after that any new will take only 3 turns (3 turns * 7 shields/turn = 21 shields for a 20 shield unit.). To build a vSword will take 5 turns; two vSwords will take 10 turns and 3 will take 15 turns. In contrast, in 10 turns we can build 3 vArchers, in 15 turns five of them.

If our goal is still 10 vArchers before we begin our war, then by the end of the next turnset we should be ready. We can expect 6 vArchers from Beijing and 2 vArchers from the other three cities, giving us 12, but some may be needed for MP duty. Depending on how the initial attacks go, we may need to make Swords instead of Archers. But for right now I think we are fine making Archers.


Other Stuff
Nanking will grow this IBT and complete the barracks. The new citizen will probably work the Silk Forest for 2 shields, but corruption will take effect and we will only net 3 shields out of Nanking. So the worker that is roading between Nanking and Shanghai needs to start a mine next turn on that bonus grassland. I'm sure you were planning to that anyway, but with that tile mined it will give us 2 shields (just like the Silk Forest) and 2 food (one more than the Silk Forest). So when that tile is mined, be sure to reassign the citizen in Nanking to work it.

Uh, why are learning Code of Laws so slowly? We want to get there fast, so that we can get onto Philosophy, hoping to get it first, which will let us claim Republic as a free tech. Or have I forgotten an earlier discussion on this?

Writing for Iron Working is an okay trade; both are 2nd tier techs and now we know everything that India does.

Can we bring the exploring Warriors home? I know it will take some time, but I would rather use them for crowd control instead of Archers. We want Archers killing Indians, not pacifying the crowds.

The Settler in Shanghai will get to Blue Dot before the vArcher in Beijing joins him. That should not be a problem, but let's not take chances. Wake the vArcher in Shanghai and send him with the Settler and send the vArcher in Beijing towards Shanghai. The Beijing Archer won't be able to reach Shanghai this turn but will arrive next turn, so the danger of an undefended will only exisit for one turn. I think we'll be fine for that one turn.

Once you build Blue Dot, what do you plan to build in the new city?

 

[Northen Wolf]

We'll get that Iron soon enough, atm hammer the India is primary. We will get few slaves out of india towns so we will get One out of 3 sources connected anyhow.

Actually I am thinking getting that Iron source above Beijing settled on, time will be long, but it would make us easly defended area. (by defense units, not offense, due enemy gets def bonus on mountains too).

Iron atm is not worth enough, once we get more productive cities, it is, but not before. And as it is guaranteed that we will get atleast one source out of 3.

Also why are barbs so weird, shouldnt they move towards us? And why is barb sitting next to our capital? If it was not popped, we have 25 gc and free experience there!

Try to learn Code of Laws with least 60% sci rate. We will need money, but NOT atm.

BTW I still do not understand why did you chop the forest tile (we could have saved that). I know straight roads look nice, but this one would net same results with less turns:

Spoiler :

 

[CommandoBob]

BTW I still do not understand why did you chop the forest tile (we could have saved that). I know straight roads look nice, but this one would net same results with less turns:

Spoiler :

We chopped the forest to help build the settler that will build a city at Blue Dot. We built the settler in Shanghai in order to preserve our ability to make 3 turns Archers in Beijing.

Beijing will be our main supply of military units until we take out India.

 

[ngraner42]

Killed the Barbarian near Beijing.

Produced another worker in Canton. We are suffering from working unimproved tiles.

Got beaten to a goody hut by a Zulu explorer.

A barbarian warrior shows up near Shanghai, we move an Archer over from Beijing just in case and switch build to a Spearman.

Our exploring warrior attempts to capture a barbarian outpost, but unfortunately loses.

The barbarian next to Shanghai moved next to the city on my last turn.

I had reduced tech to zero for a couple turns to gain gold, but unfortunately forgot to switch and left it collecting gold for two turns too many. Hopefully it will not have any impact on our Republic slingshot. Philosophy is in 6.

 

[mythmonster2]

Hey guys, good news! Spring break is here, so I have enough time for an SG! Bad news: This time off has made me realize something. Sadly, I am not a SG person. I'm a lone wolfer, a solo player. Therefore, I hand over command of this SG to CommandoBob. Good luck guys, I'll still be watching.

 

[choxorn]

lurker's comment: Ngraner, do you know what a turnset write-up is?

It works kinda like this:

Preturn (Insert Year Here)

-Say what happens

IBT

-Say what Happens

Turn 1 (Insert Year Here)

-Say what happens


You get the picture.

You, on the other hand, just said a bit of what happened, and that was all.

 

[Northen Wolf]

why are we creating spearman in shanghai ?
Archer on mountain should be called back, he gave us useful info, but we might need him against India.

Also That iron spot on mountain is worth settling on. We will get defense points, next to it are hill & a mountain, under it is iron. But for that we will need one more town to be settled (dot #1)

Spoiler :

.

How far are the Zulus? That says how fast we will need that choke point.

Would it not be better to irrigate sugar instead of mining ???

Looks like the other landbridge is not worth it, just a piece of land than we could use, but nothing else. (sorry If I am posting too much and/or wrong things, never done anything like this)

 

[CommandoBob]

Just looked at the save and have just a few comments.

If Shanghai is making a Spear because of the Barbarian warrior, that is the wrong reason. We may need a Spear or two for defensive purposes, but those could wait a little bit longer.

The Barb Warrior may attack us and that is not good. But he cannot do any real damage, except killing a unit. He has to attack across a river and that gives us a defensive advantage. But I think we are better off if we move an Archer in Shanghai 1 tile South (where the river does not run) and then attack the Barb Warrior on the hill. Then he just has the hill bonus, but even so, our attack strength is greater than his defense (2 HP vs 1.5 HP). Plus, he has to win 4 rounds of combat, we need only to win 2. So let's attack him and maybe our unit will promote to Elite status.

The Archer to the far north could just as well be a Warrior. What we need up there is a unit that can tell us of intruders and give us time to repsond to their threat. If we can swap out a Warrior for that Archer, fine. If not, then the Archer will have to do.

I'm not sure if I would have built a Worker in Canton, but that worker is in the right place; improving tiles around Beijing. Right now Beijing is producing 8 shields per turn; once the BG is mined it will producing 9 spt. Once it grows to size 6 (in five turns) it can be producing 10 or 11.

The unnamed worker is finished roading that tile. Next turn it needs to move to one of unmined BGs and begin to mine (not road) that tile. The mining of that tile will be finished on the same turn that Beijing grows to size 6, so our new citizen will work that tile, gaining us 2 shields per turn, which puts us at 11 shields per turn from Beijing. This means 2 turn Archers or 3 turns Swords, whichever we need. And once that tile is mined, then it can be roaded. If we road that BG before we mine, we don't get the second shield from the tile for another 2 turns.

Remember, we want to take out India soon. Once those cities are ours we can turn our attention to the mountains and hills north of us. But as long as India exists we have to watch our front and our back at a time when that is very difficult, given that the Zulu are somewhere rather close. We can delay and stall the Zulu, giving them gold or gold per turn to make them happy and leave us alone while we remove India from the game.

 

[CommandoBob]

Turn Logs
This early in the game, and especially in a Training Day Game, we do need detailed turn logs of what goes on each turn. Some turns lack action, true. But please try to indicate the events of each turn.

I do this by having Notepad open and I just Alt+Tab between the game and Notepad to record what happens.

Save Files
Don't use the default name supplied by the game. For us, in this game, our file names should be myth01_(Year in some format) _(player's name, which is optional).sav. If you don't organize your save folder with subfolders, you can easily lose track of which save goes with which game.

I do years like so: AD/BC_YYYY, other use YYYYAD/BC. Which manner is not critical, just as long as it is there.

Questions
If something does not make sense, ask. Remember, we're all in this together. If you don't understand something, chances are someone else does not understand it also.

 

[Northen Wolf]

BTW, is umm roster like this now?:
Roster:
pol1 - skip
Pinman - skip?
ngraner43 - just played
Yahya - Playing?
Northen Wolf - warming up
CommandoBob - Doing his stuff

 

[Yahya]

BTW, is umm roaster like this now?:
Roster:
pol1 - skip
Pinman - skip?
ngraner43 - just played
Yahya - Playing?
Northen Wolf - warming up
CommandoBob - Doing his stuff

Very good point, and one I had not realized until you posted it!

I will get on that.

 

[choxorn]

lurker's comment: roaster? What are you roasting?

 

[CommandoBob]

Here is the order of players, the roster.

Roster:
ngraner43 - just played
Yahya - UP!
Northen Wolf - on deck
CommandoBob - warming up
pol1
Pinman

 

[CommandoBob]

Yahya, before you play, could you tell us what you plan to do on your turns?

 

[Yahya]

Yes, I'll be happy to. I am just loading up the save now to look around a bit, and I will outline my plans shortly.

 

[Yahya]

Okay, here we go. I will first give my immediately planned actions, followed by my general aim for these ten turns.

I'd like to first clear up some terminology with which I am unfamiliar. CommandoBob has been referring to vArchers, presumably because they are veterans. If so, then it logically follows that we can also have sX, rX, and eX, for skilled, regular, and elite versions of unit 'X'. Is that right? (I will refer to them thusly in this post, but will correct later if I am wrong).

I view the next ten turns as war preparation. We will have Philosophy in 6 turns, which will give us Republic immediately. Though, unless I am mistaken, we are far too small to support a large military, so without more (and larger) cities, it won't make sense to switch. At least, until we have more resources and income.

I intend to immediately move the rWarrior from Beijing to the northern mountain, and once he arrives there (or very nearly there), I will move that vArcher back to Beijing (or even to Shanghai or Tsingtao, but time will tell).

I also intend to move one of the vArchers south one square from Shanghai, to battle the Barb warrior. Once he is victorious, I will move him back to Shanghai.

There is one worker making his way toward Tsingtao. I wil use him to finish the road network to Tsingtao, and then to add a road to Shanghai and one toward Calcutta.

The other workers will begin / continue working on mines (on appropriate squares), as we need all the shields we can get to make vArchers in all four cities (and even Tsingtao if necessary, once the barracks is complete).

Shanghai will be changed back to Archers - I agree that a spearman is not needed.

I will also start moving archers toward Tsingtao. Need to be ready over there, I think.

I will take the Pink E and the Pink Clover and move them around the continent, meeting on the far side. That is the extent of our exploration possibility by sea, unless we find a narrow strait that we can traverse, opening up the eastern hemisphere.

Lastly, I will probably keep an eye on technology, and see what we can trade. We are in pretty good shape technologically, and we can trade some non-military techs for the gold that Gandhi and Shaka have.

Those are my plans overall.

A few things I have noticed:

Beijing has one happy and one unhappy citizen. If we fight the barbarian, does that add to unhappiness? If so, that will cause a problem in Beijing, and we can't afford that.

We are desperately short of happy resources, and it doesn't look like we can get any more for a while. We do have another area of silk to the southeast, and there are grapes near Bombay, and on the other side of the northeastern mountains. It will take time to add happiness in that way, so we might be forced to use the slider.

Calcutta has only one citizen, and no improved tiles around the city. This means that it can't grow for at least 1 turn, and at most 10 turns. And, it could be at size 1 indefinitely, if producing workers. That is a problem if we sack the city.

Lastly, there is an exceptional amount of fog to the south of India, and I don't like that. I might consider sending an rWarrior down there to park on the mountains between Calcutta and the city to the southeast, to be able to see what is going on down there.

That's all there is. There ain't no more.

I welcome any inputs.

 

[choxorn]

sX, rX, and eX, for skilled, regular, and elite versions of unit 'X'.

lurker's comment: They're called "Conscript", not "Skilled". "Skilled" Is just what you get when you pop one from a hut.

Beijing has one happy and one unhappy citizen. If we fight the barbarian, does that add to unhappiness? If so, that will cause a problem in Beijing, and we can't afford that.

Fighting Barbarians doesn't affect happiness.