Myth01- Training Day- Regent

[CommandoBob]

I'd build courthouse into Xinjian... I do it in my games, It would give me a expansion core, with medicore production and if we'd go onto communism (my fave government, those would only good....

Xinjian will need a courthouse but not right away. A library will help us learn things faster and it gives culture, too. A courthouse reduces corruption but in our core cities it is not needed. In our remote cities it is useless. It really is most effective in cities that are less than 50% corrupt.

And, what I would is once a new settler is ready, settle it onto horse, down right of Xinjian, for free water system

Next would be trying to grab those grapes and then those Floodplains, that'd fill up quite a bit area, as AI will soon try to fill those holes...

Even though it is a long walk, I think I would rebuild Bombay and claim the Wines first instead of getting Horses. We have enough units to block and hold the chokepoint to the north, so we don't have an immediate need for Horses. Long term, yes, we need them and we will have them. But in our current situation, except for some pesky Barbarians, the need for Horses is not pressing. If the Zulu were coming our way I would change my mind. We would need Horses to deal with the Impis. But they are off bothering someone else and we will let them do that.

Connecting Wines gives us a second luxury, which will make our people happier. In turn, that allows us to have more citizens working our lands and bringing in food, shields, and gold.

Our current settler needs to settle on the Iron and start Walls. Iron will let us build stronger units throughout our empire, once it is connected to our capital.

The settler in Beijing, due in 2, should start the long walk to former Bombay to claim the Wines. I think Beijing should make another settler after this one.

Settler #3 (either from Beijing or Canton) I would use to backfill behind the Iron. This would help our defences if the Iron City we taken by force.

Settler #4 I would send to get the Horses.

Settler #3 and #4 could easily swap tasks, depening on the ingame situation.

Given the distances involved, we could follow this plan and still get Horses connected before Wines.

 

[Yahya]

I'd say settle on iron, that'd give 5 grasslands that can be watered... Not sure howmany citizens that would support...15:2=7 + one mine worker? or size 6 and 3 mine workers? Could anyone explain me, how to make sure??? (adding picture)

I'm not sure about that. If we settle on the iron, I think we have three grass, including the city center. Maybe four, but I think the square to the south of iron is a hill. I can check a little later today.

And, what I would is once a new settler is ready, settle it onto horse, down right of Xinjian, for free water system

Next would be trying to grab those grapes and then those Floodplains, that'd fill up quite a bit area, as AI will soon try to fill those holes...

True about the grapes and floodplains. Good idea. I'll have to check about the horse and see.

 

[Aabraxan]

lurker's comment: OK. As a placeholder for a library (or something better, as CBob mentioned), the courthouse makes a whole lot more sense. I still might pop a worker first, because you are low on workers, but a library makes much more sense than a courthouse at this stage.

Northen Wolf is right that settling on the iron will give 5 grass to water, but only after either settlement on the other side or a cultural pop. I was only counting the initial 9 tiles. In those 9, you've only got 3 workable grass tiles. And yes, Yahya, the tile due S of the iron is a hill, but I think Northen Wolf is counting the entire fat cross.

FWIW, I'd skip the Glib in this game. It's a very powerful wonder and lots of fun, but I think that once you get this nice, rich land settled, you'll find that you can outrun the AI tech-wise. The GLib will only slow you down, as you will have no incentive to self-research. At the same time, it will let you accumulate piles and piles of cash. Given y'all's progress so far, I'd say that building the GLib would make life too easy for you. Capture? Maybe. Wait and see.

 

[choxorn]

lurker's comment: Still, 2 free techs is nothing to laugh at. Not ALL the great wonders are useless.

[TotalScienceGeek] And Darwin didn't say humans evolved from apes, he said they both evolved from a common ancestor. [/TotalScienceGeek]

 

[Yahya]

Northen Wolf is right that settling on the iron will give 5 grass to water, but only after either settlement on the other side or a cultural pop. I was only counting the initial 9 tiles. In those 9, you've only got 3 workable grass tiles. And yes, Yahya, the tile due S of the iron is a hill, but I think Northen Wolf is counting the entire fat cross.

Ah, I see. I wasn't thinking of expansion.

FWIW, I'd skip the Glib in this game. It's a very powerful wonder and lots of fun, but I think that once you get this nice, rich land settled, you'll find that you can outrun the AI tech-wise. The GLib will only slow you down, as you will have no incentive to self-research. At the same time, it will let you accumulate piles and piles of cash. Given y'all's progress so far, I'd say that building the GLib would make life too easy for you. Capture? Maybe. Wait and see.

I agree. I wasn't sure if he had meant a Library or a GLib. Not that "too easy" is a bad thing. Heh.

[TotalScienceGeek] And Darwin didn't say humans evolved from apes, he said they both evolved from a common ancestor. [/TotalScienceGeek]

Indeed. Classic.

 

[CommandoBob]

lurker's comment: Still, 2 free techs is nothing to laugh at. Not ALL the great wonders are useless.

True, and Theory of Evolution is one of my favorite Wonders. And it is real fun to build two wonders in two turns (turn 1: ToE and claim Atomic Theory and Electronics as the free techs; turn 2: Hoover Dam and ).

But for us, in this game, I would like to avoid building Great Wonders. We could build Sun Tzu's Art of War and get veterans and free barracks, but we should dominate, if not own, this continent, by that time. Leonardo's Workshop I have not found to be all the helpful; I would rather disband old units (except artillery-types) to help with infrastructure and build new units. Smith's Trading Company is another good one since it increases our cash flow by removing our per-turn upkeep on markets and banks.

These three are about the only ones I can see that would directly help our efforts. Free barracks/veteran units, half-price upgrades and no maintenance costs (more cash to rush things).

Plus, I'm not sure if any of team have ever played a No-Wonder game. I've assumed (sorta dangerous, I know) they have not, which makes this a good time for that experience.

However, once we get the world mapped and meet our neighbors, we may need to reexamine things.

 

[Northen Wolf]

cross posted with CommandoBob

Northen Wolf is right that settling on the iron will give 5 grass to water, but only after either settlement on the other side or a cultural pop. I was only counting the initial 9 tiles. In those 9, you've only got 3 workable grass tiles. And yes, Yahya, the tile due S of the iron is a hill, but I think Northen Wolf is counting the entire fat cross.

I usually count food/ production in fat-x style... And all of those 5 tiles can be watered... Also, if city is supposed to be a chokepoint, it does need somekind of culture building in it, or its flipping chances are too high (and courthouse takes a long time to build)

Now could anyone explain me, how many citizens with max production that city (in fat x style) could produce? With all those grasslands watered

FWIW, I'd skip the Glib in this game. .... The GLib will only slow you down, as you will have no incentive to self-research.

True, I've learned (from war academy) to build wonders only when I get a SGL, (exeption is small wonders). IMO GL sucks, Ai reasearches slow and you can more simply trade yourself infront of tech lead....

Originally Posted by choxorn
[TotalScienceGeek] And Darwin didn't say humans evolved from apes, he said they both evolved from a common ancestor. [/TotalScienceGeek]

Oh, stop arguing over that tiny thing, everybody knows that I am the best sample of evolution.. /De-evolution./ Revolution!.

 

[Aabraxan]

. . . . I usually count food/ production in fat-x style... And all of those 5 tiles can be watered... Also, if city is supposed to be a chokepoint, it does need somekind of culture building in it, or its flipping chances are too high (and courthouse takes a long time to build). . . .

I agree that it needs some culture, but not because of the flip chance. At Regent & this close to your capital, flip chances won't be very high. Besides, you can always go on the offensive and push Zulu borders back so that they don't touch yours. OTOH, if you do that, you won't be using the chokepoint, now will you?

. . . . Now could anyone explain me, how many citizens with max production that city (in fat x style) could produce? With all those grasslands watered. . . .

If you settle on the hill, expand borders and water all 5 grass tiles, you'll have:
2 food for the city square (hill)
15 food for the watered grass (post-despotism)
1 food for the hill due S of the iron
1 food for the hill S-SE of the iron

That's a total of 18 food. That will support 9 citizens, with 7 of them working the fields to produce food. That leaves 2 to work the mined mountains.

 

[darski]

[TotalScienceGeek] And Darwin didn't say humans evolved from apes, he said they both evolved from a common ancestor. [/TotalScienceGeek]

Yeah... pond scum; and that would seem to be true of Darwin at least.

 

[choxorn]

I would rather disband old units (except artillery-types) to help with infrastructure and build new units.

lurker's comment: By "disband" you mean "use as military police", right?

Assuming you're going for Monarchy, that is.

 

[Northen Wolf]

Disband means killing your own units AFAIK.

 

[Yahya]

Alright, I think we have a plan. I will get to this in the next twelve hours or so - probably much less.

We need to settle on iron and build walls (and get that city to culture pop). My typical practice is to build a temple for that, but that hasn't been discussed yet, so not sure of opinions on that.

We also need to settle at Bombay, and then the other two as CBob mentioned. Gotta get all that connected up. I think we will need a worker or two to help accelerate things. I will figure that out. Probably from Beijing.

Attack plan stands, so we need to get connected to Bangalore around the same time as our victory there, to help with cheerfulness. I can't wait to celebrate "Victory Over India" day.

Oh - we're going to get Literature (I believe) next turn, so we will need something new to research, and I'm not sure we discussed that. At least, it's not in my mind.

I have never played a no wonder game, but I like the idea. Lately, I find the idea of wonders distracting, as I don't fully understand everything that is going on.

I'll check back here before I play today.

 

[CommandoBob]

We need to settle on iron and build walls (and get that city to culture pop). My typical practice is to build a temple for that, but that hasn't been discussed yet, so not sure of opinions on that.

I used to prefer Temples to Libraries because 1) they are cheaper (60 vs. 80) and 2) they have more culture (3 vs. 2). Both take 1 gold per turn for upkeep.

Initially, Temples looked a lot better.

So what happens 10 turns after you build either one?

In each case, you get a culture expansion for that city. It comes a bit faster with the Temple, but it is same expansion. Is that expansion important? Maybe, but generally not. Often building another city can do the same thing. And it is cheaper, since settlers only cost 30 shields.

So the same expansion for the same upkeep.

How do each add to the empire?

Temples make people happier, or at least, less unhappy, but only for that city. Luxuries and the happy slider can do the same thing and don't require any upkeep per turn.

Libraries help you learn faster. Aabraxan's article Multiplier Buildings: A Practical Primer gives the details on how that works in each city. Learning a tech faster has many pratical advantages, mostly in getting the advantages of that tech for ourselves and trading that tech around for cash, luxuries and other techs from the AI.

Strategically, Libraries contribute to the empire in a way that Temples do not. We can use Libraries to help advance our plans in a way we cannot use Temples.

This is something I learned from the Forum; I did not see it on my own.

 

[Aabraxan]

lurker's comment:

I used to prefer Temples to Libraries because 1) they are cheaper (60 vs. 80) and 2) they have more culture (3 vs. 2). Both take 1 gold per turn for upkeep. . . . .

I think you've got the culture numbers backwards, CBob. I think the temple is 2 cpt and the library is 3.

 

[choxorn]

lurker's comment: Aabraxan is correct, you've got the culture numbers backwards.

Generally, in more productive cities, Libraries>Temples, but in corrupt cities, Temples>Libraries.

Why? Libraries are far more useful in your core where there's more gpt.

 

[Yahya]

Pre-Turn

ØSet research slider to 10% -> +18 gpt, Literature in 1.

IBT

ØZulu move an rWarrior onto our iron. Waiting to see what happens there next IBT. We might have a problem on our hands.
ØZulu scout moves to square west-northwest of Xinjian.
ØNanking vArcher -> vArcher in 5.
ØShanghai vArcher -> vArcher in 4.

Turn 1


ØLiterature -> Currency (28 turns). Research slider to 40%, +7 gpt.
ØMove vArchers from Nanking and Shanghai to Delhi to reinforce war effort.
ØMove vArcher in square NE of Delhi to the NE, to protect slave worker.
ØMove vArcher from Delhi to south, to spy on Bangalore.
ØMove vArcher and eArcher NW of Delhi toward north side of Bangalore.
ØMove stacks of Archers toward Karachi. They will group up outside of their borders.
ØWorkerA and C to Delhi to begin working on road to Bangalore. Plans may change due to losses at Jaipur.
ØMove two workers, settler, vSpear north toward iron.
ØWait with vSpear on mountain. Keeping an eye on Zulu warrior.
ØPink Clover moves clockwise.

Battle of Jaipur(1)
ØvArcher vs. rSpear 3/3, Spear wins (12 of 18).
ØvArcher vs. rSpear 3/3, Spear wins (12 of 19).
ØvArcher vs. rSpear 3/3, Spear wins and promotes 4/4 (12 of 20).
ØvArcher vs. vSpear 4/4, Spear wins and promotes 5/5 (12 of 21).
ØLost four vArchers here to one Spearman. Decide to save the eArcher for reinforcements. Move him back one square from Jaipur to heal and wait for reinforcements. Really pathetic effort there. I am disappointed in our men.

We really took it on the chin this turn, but that will not stop our plans at Karachi. I will be diverting the moving vArchers toward Jaipur. That Spearman cannot keep winning battles indefinitely.

IBT
ØBeijing produces settler -> vArcher (2).
ØSpanish complete Colossus in Madrid.
ØZulu warrior moves south off of our iron.
ØZulu scout moves north toward Tsingtao.
ØBarb cWarrior moves north toward Shanghai.

Turn 2
ØvArcher east toward Barbarian camp in NE.
ØAll archers around Shanghai toward Jaipur.
ØWorkers around Shanghai begin working road toward Bangalore.
ØSettler and vSpear in NE move toward iron.
ØBeijing settler to NE to make city between Beijing and iron-city.
ØvSpear on NE mountain waits.
ØWorkers NE of Beijing begin road toward iron-city.
ØPink Clover clockwise.
Øarchers near Karachi form a stack. Moving into Indian territory next turn.

IBT
ØZulu scout moves southwest and into fog.
ØNE zulu warrior fortifies 1 south of iron.

Turn 3
ØMove five vArchers toward Jaipur.
ØMove stack of archers toward Karachi.
ØvArcher vs. Barb cWarrior, archer wins, steal 25 gold.

IBT
ØZulu warrior moves one south.
ØBeijing produces vArcher -> vArcher in 2.

Turn 4
ØMove Beijing vArcher north to new city site.
ØFinally getting new stack together at Jaipur.

Battle of Karachi(1)
ØvArcher vs. rSpear 3/3, spear wins, (12 of 22).
ØvArcher vs. rSpear, Spear wins, promotes (12 of 23).
ØvArcher vs. rSpear, archer wins (13 of 24).
ØvArcher vs. vSpear, archer wins (14 of 25).
ØKarachi razed. We capture one slave.

ØMove stack toward Bangalore. Plan to rest outside of territory.
ØMove settler and spear to iron. See a Zulu rWarrior to the northwest.
ØSpotted a new iron to the east of Beijing, near previous Barb site. Moving extra northwest settler to that spot to found city. It will fill in better with our existing CXXXC placement structure.

IBT
ØZulu rWarrior moves south, one SW of iron.
ØShangai vArcher -> vArcher in 4.

Turn 5
ØChengdu founded on NE iron. Two workers on hill south of Chengdu, will have road complete in 2 turns (?).
ØChengdu -> Library in 40.
ØWe are at +11 gpt. Increased research slider to 50%, now at +3 gpt. Currency in 15.
ØForming up stacks around Bangalore and Jaipur. moving into Indian territory at Jaipur next turn.

IBT
ØZulu warriors are pushing it. Going wherever they want. But I am willing to tolerate it for now. We don’t need a two-front war.
ØBeijing vArcher, archer in 2.
ØNanking vArcher, archer in 5.
ØNow at +2 gpt.

Turn 6
ØMove stack toward Jaipur.
ØFortify stack outside Bangalore to heal.
ØStart finishing road to Bangalore, with archer protection.

IBT
ØvArcher from Bangalore attacks archer outside and loses (15 of 26).
ØTsingtao worker, archer in 20.
ØIroquois complete the Pyramids in Salamanca.

Turn 7

Battle of Jaipur(1)
ØvArcher vs. eSpear, spear wins (15 of 27).
ØvArcher vs. rSpear, archer wins (16 of 28).
ØvArcher vs. eSpear (2/5), archer wins (17 of 29).
ØeArcher vs. rArcher, eArcher wins (18 of 30).
ØJaipur razed, 6 gold. Reform stack, heal, and work toward Lahore.

ØRoad completed to Bangalore. Start pulling troops back into territory to heal.

IBT
ØSpear runs west from Bangalore.
ØTwo Zulu warriors in our lands.
ØBeijing vArcher, vArcher in 2.
ØRoad to Chendu completed.

Turn 8
ØBuild mine on hill outside Chengdu.
ØIrrigate NW of Tsingtao.
ØMove troops toward Lahore.
ØStack troops west of Bangalore for potential spear attack.

IBT
ØSpear runs back to Bangalore. Other spear runs east and checks north from Bangalore.
ØShanghai vArcher, vArcher in 4.
ØCanton settler, settler in 10.

Turn 9
ØIrrigate SE of Tsingtao.
ØMove settler with vArcher escort toward horses in SE (old Madras spot, I think).
Øat –1 gpt. Research slider to 40%. At +8 gpt, Currency in 16.
ØTrying to get things together for attacks at Lahore and Bangalore.

IBT
ØIndian rArcher attacks eArcher outside Lahore. We win (19 of 31).
ØZulus moving warriors (2) toward Nanking.
ØBeijing vArcher, vArcher in 2.

Turn 10
ØvArcher kills Barb cWarrior outside Shanghai.
ØResting two stacks of archers at Jaipur ruins and Bangalore.
ØMoved one vArcher into Indian territory. His partner was the one attacked on IBT and is at 1/5. I had him hold. He needs protection.
ØHangchow founded one SW of iron on the eastern shore. City has one vSpear and one vArcher garrisoned.
ØHangchow -> Library in 80. Probably not the best idea, but I leave it up to discussion to change this.

Screenshots to follow. Save is attached.

 

[Yahya]

Here they are. Talk amongst yourselves.

East

West

South

 

[TheOverseer714]

lurker's comment: The position of the Zulu warriors whiffs of sneak attack. Oh, and welcome to the cruel RnG gods, losing 4 archers to 1 spear really sucks.

 

[Yahya]

lurker's comment: The position of the Zulu warriors whiffs of sneak attack. Oh, and welcome to the cruel RnG gods, losing 4 archers to 1 spear really sucks.

I agree fully about the Zulu. Hence the buildup of archers.

Something I forgot to mention, we have all cities conneceted by Hangchow, and we have iron to them all, so we can build Swords if we want to take that tack.

Also, Shaka was offering Horseback Riding and Mysticism, plus some gold for Lliterature on my first turn. I forgot to document that.

And, I feel the pain of the RNG gods. That was total bs, but I rolled with it. Unfortunately, it really set us back. We could have destroyed India easily on my set if that hadn't happened. But, we'll get them next time.

 

[Yahya]

Roster:
Yahya - just played
Northen Wolf - UP!
new player / CommandoBob - on deck
ngraner42 - warming up