NCSG IV Redux - The Mummy Strikes Back

I am back, and have time to play my normal turns now. Looks like its Gat's turn, with me on-deck.

Some cool turns too. S.ilver, I swear you should be in the Immortal SGs, bro, your game is rock solid. Heck, everyone in this SG seems to out-think me, LOL, I tend to play it from the hip, though, I dont even mind coming from a bit behind, like we did with Gilga.
 
Nah, I panic a bit too easily and make smoke decisions. I always perform better in SGs because I have the rest of you guys to hold me down and beat some sense into me when I want to do something insane :lol:.

In a private game, I probably would be in full panic mode in this situation :eek:. I need to learn to be more comfortable playing from behind.
 
Apologies for the delay... I hoped to play over the weekend, but I haven't been able to focus on Civ games lately... go ahead and skip me.
 
PFT

I run through the citys and assign their roles. I do this more by gut feeling than anything to concrete so feel free to suggest alternative options.

In no particulare order:
Thebes - Military/Production
Helio - Moai/Military
Guim - Commerce
Eleph - Commerce
Alex - Production/Military
Memphis - Science
Giza - Filler
Pi - Commerce
Lisbon - Commerce(?)
Ainu - Forest city (I would cottage this city personally)

So by my reckoning we are a bit short on commerce cities but ok for military ATM.

Thoughts?

Turn 260/750 (1150 AD) [10-Nov-2008 19:16:11]

After End Turn:
Thebes finishes: Maceman
Alexandria grows to size 8

Other Player Actions:

Turn 261/750 (1160 AD) [10-Nov-2008 19:27:48]

I set Thebes to grow in 4 by scrubbing some production.


A Farm was built near Thebes
A Farm was built near Lisbon
Thebes begins: Trebuchet (3 turns)

After End Turn:
A Town was built near Elephantine
Pi-Ramesses grows to size 5
Lisbon grows to size 5

Other Player Actions:

Turn 262/750 (1170 AD) [10-Nov-2008 19:35:06]

After End Turn:
Thebes finishes: Trebuchet
Alexandria finishes: Maceman
Pi-Ramesses finishes: Forge

Other Player Actions:

Turn 263/750 (1180 AD) [10-Nov-2008 19:38:00]
Thebes begins: Trebuchet (3 turns)
Alexandria begins: Maceman (6 turns)
Pi-Ramesses begins: Market (23 turns)

After End Turn:
Heliopolis finishes: Longbowman
Elephantine finishes: Islamic Monastery
Giza's borders expand
Ainu finishes: Longbowman

Other Player Actions:

Turn 264/750 (1190 AD) [10-Nov-2008 19:41:53]
Longbowman promoted: City Garrison I
Heliopolis begins: Crossbowman (5 turns)
Elephantine begins: Colosseum (14 turns)
Elephantine begins: Walls (5 turns)

I started these walls as I thought I'd get some massive overflow (140ish hammers)
Ainu begins: Islamic Monastery (6 turns)

After End Turn:
Thebes grows to size 9
Thebes finishes: Trebuchet
Memphis grows to size 11
Elephantine grows to size 9
Elephantine finishes: Walls
I didn't get massive overflow. Any ideas?

Guimarães grows to size 8
Lisbon's borders expand

Other Player Actions:

Turn 265/750 (1200 AD) [10-Nov-2008 19:46:41]
A Cottage was built near Heliopolis
Thebes begins: Trebuchet (2 turns)
Elephantine begins: Buddhist Monastery (9 turns)

After End Turn:
Guimarães finishes: Market

Other Player Actions:

Turn 266/750 (1210 AD) [10-Nov-2008 19:50:33]

Our spy finds a Portuguese city we had missed.
Civ4ScreenShot0000.jpg


A Cottage was built near Elephantine
Guimarães begins: Islamic Monastery (6 turns)

After End Turn:
Thebes finishes: Trebuchet
A Town was built near Lisbon

Other Player Actions:

Turn 267/750 (1220 AD) [10-Nov-2008 19:55:54]
A Cottage was built near Agra
Thebes begins: Trebuchet (2 turns)

After End Turn:
Heliopolis grows to size 8
Heliopolis finishes: Crossbowman
Alexandria finishes: Maceman
Pi-Ramesses grows to size 6

Other Player Actions:

Turn 268/750 (1230 AD) [10-Nov-2008 20:00:54]
A Cottage was built near Nagoya
A Cottage was built near Memphis
A Cottage was built near Thebes
A Cottage was built near Elephantine
Longbowman promoted: City Garrison I
Longbowman promoted: City Garrison II
Heliopolis begins: Crossbowman (5 turns)
Alexandria begins: Maceman (6 turns)

After End Turn:
Thebes finishes: Trebuchet

Other Player Actions:

Turn 269/750 (1240 AD) [10-Nov-2008 20:04:15]
A Farm was built
Thebes begins: Maceman (2 turns)

After End Turn:
Elephantine finishes: Buddhist Monastery
Ainu finishes: Islamic Monastery

Other Player Actions:

Turn 270/750 (1250 AD) [10-Nov-2008 20:08:43]
A Cottage was built near Guimarães
A Cottage was built near Elephantine
Elephantine begins: Aqueduct (15 turns)
Ainu begins: Buddhist Missionary (4 turns)
This is for Pi. We need to get culture in here to win its BFC.


Info

Our Empire
Civ4ScreenShot0002.jpg


Glance
Civ4ScreenShot0003.jpg


Resources. When the corn is hooked up we can trade it for Ivory or what ever.
Civ4ScreenShot0004.jpg


Tech
Civ4ScreenShot0005.jpg


Should we gift Toku Lit. It might make him friendly enough to be able to bribe.

Joao will Vassal to us if asked.

Roster - not to sure here!
GatlingGun - up now/on deck
Bleys - on deck
S.ilver
Groogaroo - up now/skip/swap/on deck?
grandad1982 - just played
Jkaen

The save
 
Go ahead and skip me... Bleys is up now... Cheers...
 
Groogaroo - up now/skip/swap/on deck?

Yeah! Sorry I'm still really swamped here :sad: Its not that I don't have time to play a set but more a case that I havn't played any civ at all since my laptop died briefly. I really don't wanna screw up the game by playing a rubbish set.

Please skip me, I'll try and get some civ time in between now and my next turn.

Again, apologies for bieng rubbish :crazyeye:
 
I got it, will play and post in the AM after coffee, heh.

EDIT: After peeking at the save, I think its time we took out Jaoa. Keep the northern city, burn the SE one (from Lisbon), and take and keep the 2 to the west. One idea I have is to use the Great Spy on him, but steal techs with it instead of revolts, and just bombard and attack. We are 2 turns from the next GP pop, and a Scientist can bulb Philo and start running Pacifism.

Other than that, we look decent enough. Workers need to do some chopping, lots of forests.
 
Would it be better to use the great spy on Mansa? He is spending all his commerce on research at the moment.
 
Using the spy on Mansa might work, as he's highest in tech, but his geographical location would cause us some problems. I am assuming that the map is fairly default in its setup, and therefore the world wraps. In that case, we have two options to getting actual spies to Mansa to steal the techs.

1) They could walk there. This is probably a bad idea, as the shortest route, through Pi-Ram still takes the spy through at least 2 other civs. Of course, we could simply roll out military and go medieval on Toku after we finish Joao (which is only logical anyways). Ensure we bring X-bows to deal with the Samurai...

2) We could divert to Optics to get caravels and sail them over. As this is a diversion of tech resources, it is also probably a bad idea.

Regardless of how we get there, we'll still be chewing on a significant distance penalty; he's halfway around the world...

Asoka is fairly advanced, and using the spy there would be a workable idea. Walking distance is just across the border, slashing the distance penalties. And Toku is the likely next target after Joao, so we will have some opportunity to milk the techs.

I am not a huge fan of espionage though. Personally, I'd rather save the spy for a 2-GP golden age, as spies are fairly uncommon, at least in my personal games.
 
I would infiltrait Asoka rather than Mansa. Would be good EP to us in a future war when we want that buddist shrine for our Wall Street city. The distance to Mansa is just to much.

I still prefer a Golden Age though.

I consideredDoW on Joao in my set but decided against it untill we had more Trebs (we'll be able to attack Toku that much sooner with good siege). Xbows a must.

If GSci then bulb Philo.
 
In fact on the golden age front with the GSpy the GA, another great person and the chance of getting the Taj we could score 45 turns of back to back GA! Not bad if we can hold out....
 
OK sorry about the delay. Playing right now. Will save both Great People for future GA's (my preferred usage of GP, hence the reason I built the MoM).

Also taking out Jaoa. He needs to be killed, not vassalized. I will take at least 2 cities my set without a hassle.

EDIT: On second thought, I am going to settle the spy in Thebes. With the GW, and a future Scotland Yard, we should have enough EP generated to mostly ignore the Espionage Slider and still be able to see all the AIs current research by Rifling.
 
OK, well, this got crazy REALLY fast! As I said, I split the stack in Lisbon and went for Jaoa's 2 easternmost cities. No sooner to I DoW, then I hear that noise in the background and this hits my screen:

Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0067.jpg
Well, it was inevitable. I quickly swap into Slavery and Vassalage and whip out some troops, mostly HAs and Pikes, although Toku seems melee-heavy, and doesnt have Samurai yet. HA-Pike teams are nice for pillaging stuff though.

Anyway, its not so bad, I do settle the Spy in Thebes, though. I take the 2 cities from Jaoa as I shore up the defenses in our Western cities. We got pillaged to crap out here, so another bout of Serfdom may be in order, but for now, I have them mostly chopping out units.

I got worried when we got Education, and went straight for Lib. Another AI had Edu, and I was worried we would lose it. Took Nationhood, so we could get working on that 45 turn Golden Age, although an SPI leader makes GAs less effective. Still tons of prod + commerce bonuses though, so its very worth it.

Anyway, here we are. I played 1 turn over, sorry. I also chopped out the AW in Thebes to give us 2 hammer Priests, one of the nicest combos with Egypt. Makes em better than Engineer specialists because theres an extra gold.

I think I have enough defenses in the West to hold out Toku while we finish off Jaoa. 2 cities to kill. Needed some healing though. Heres a screen of the situation:

Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0078.jpg
I must mention a gameplay thing here. I havent played a lot of sets this game, so its gotten a lot later than I thought, but I think I know why are are "holding our own" instead of "totally dominating". We should have settled this tundra area in the southern part of that screenshot, those arent bad cities at all.

Oh well, live and learn. I dont think we are in any trouble at all. Toku cant mount any threat, and as soon as we have enough units over there, we should clean his 2 stacks out.

Heres the situation in the North. Jaoa is down to 2 cities, I have some units healing up and slowing bombarding one of them, while the other stack comes in as well. Next set should be the end of Jaoa, both his last cities are keepers.

Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0077.jpg

Civ4ScreenShot0076.jpg

I did manage Lib though, and in retrospect, I may have panicked too much. Again, though, no worries there. I got rid of Edu for a couple techs (forgot to take screenies though), and once I got Lib, I made these trades:

Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0071.jpg

Civ4ScreenShot0070.jpg

Civ4ScreenShot0073.jpg
Both these bozo's still have a pile of cash, too, heres the current tech situation:
Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0075.jpg
The final "actual" turn of my set I got this for us, as I said. An underrated Wonder, solid for Egypt and Arabia though, all those yummy priest slots.
Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0074.jpg


So thats about it. I did a second civic change after I picked up Theo, so I went back to Bureaucracy and Theocracy, but we should be done making units once this round of War is over, so next guy should look at a civic change when its available (2 turns I think). Thinking Rep, Bur, Caste, Merc, Paci, popping into Slavery now and then. Get as many specialists hired as we can.

Other Points of note:
- Some HAs and Maces have moved into the West and we may be ready for offense. We need a couple more siege units, then lets try to have battles with Toku's piles of outdated crap (both those stacks you see are mostly Swords, Axes and Chariots) on our soil for the GW bonus.

- If we are going to go with an SE, we need to go with it. I did hire a bunch of Scientists, which slowed growth in many cities, so adjustments are needed there now that the Lib race is over. I am teching Gunpowder, maybe Steel or MT before Rifling? Biology is the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow for more pure SEs, though, so lets keep that consideration.

Good game though, we have a solid position. I think a quick war with Asoka to put him in his place is a plan for the medium future (and scarf some of those Tundra cities along rivers he's already improved for us, heh). Moving some of those troops from Jaoa's front in that direction shortly anyway, although Toku's northern flank is open from the east when we finish off Jaoa, so we have some options up there.
 

Attachments

Good play Bleys... perhaps our concerns about Toku weren't quite as "irrational" as some might propose.

Although I think that if he sends both stacks against one of the western cities (in the same turn), they will crumble. We can recover for sure because of our production and because he is definitely backwards, but I'm the sort that just prefers to keep a few longbows playing zone defense on my opposite borders just in case...

Anyway, the silver lining is that we won't get demerits from Asoka for declaring on Toku.

EDIT: as for tech, I think Gunpowder > Mil Tradition is great... West Point and cuirassers == lotsa fun
 
Nice set Bleys.

Lets get some universities up so we can get Ox down.

AW is a fantastic wonder as we saw in our last game (those preists rock).

I'm not sure a pure SE is on here is it? Maybe a SE biased hybrid (most economies are hybrids anyway).

I think if we hit Asoka after Toku (and when we're ready) we should nail his shrines and some core cities and than take him as a Vassel. He's an ok partner in my experience and it would allow us to push in to Islamic lands for the Domination Victory I imagin we're going to go for.

On the Tech front the sooner we hit an idustrial army the better really so I'm ok with theching up towards rifling.

On a different note I wish that Firaxs hadn't made Toku so rubbish as an AI. He never really stands a chance when the early game is over.
 
I got it. Very nice set Bleys!

Point taken about Toku. I never really expected him to DoW on us before Fred. I suspect he was bribed into doing so by Joao, so perhaps he wasn't inclined to do so, but Joao paid him off to do it. Then again, since we were attacking Joao, we should've been ready for a retaliation from Toku and/or Asoka since they are his buddies.

I was genuinely worried about the Liberalism race back there for a moment, as Mansa had both Phil and Edu, but it looks like Bleys pulled it out of his magic hat, so all is good :lol:.

Regarding Asoka beating us to expanding into our backyard. That was due to a combination of factors, mainly us hording wonders, but the rush to found Pi-Ram, and then Giza to secure us iron were both costly. In hindsight, they were both mistakes too, as they haven't really contributed to our empire while costing too much in maintenance and being under attack all the time. When I initially razed the barb city near Agra, I thought we were going to found near it, and not out at Pi-Ram.

We also have 0.5 workers per city for a large portion of the game, and that didn't help us in getting our cities productive very quickly. Looking at the big picture, I'd have to say we're in great shape considering some of the events that happened earlier in the game. Around the time Asoka came into our backyard we were fighting Joao, the reason I assumed is because his land is way better than the tundra that we gave up to Asoka. Unfortunately we just took it from him.

Definitely want Mil Trad. West Point to complete the duo in Thebes, and Cuirassiers are Gunpowder units for the ultimate destruction of walls everywhere :lol:.

I'm going to do a bit of rearranging of specs... Places like Alexandria have no business running specs while running none of its mines. I assume we want to destroy Toku for his insolence (and it would only be logical as his land meshes nicely with ours anyways). We need a bit of economic repair and a bit more discretion when it comes to specialization.

I won't put us in pacifism yet, as I will be cutting down on our specs temporarily, and our bloated military would cause us problems (and stopping military builds is a good way to get into a bind, although our power is astronomical right now).
 
Nice set, while we have momentum I am all for rolling straight from Joao into Toku's flank. Would be tempted to try and keep asoka sweet for now though if possible.

If think we have suffered a bit this game from not really deiced what economy we are running early on
 
Yeah, I just kind of whipped through the cities and assigned 2 scientists without looking too hard. Of course our Production cities need to be on the mines.

Maybe its time for OR though. OR would really help crank up the infra in all our new cities, as well as get some much-needed Markets and such in our Commerce cities up quicker.
 
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