Need tips on Axe-Rush [Vanilla]
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Bandobras Took
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You're mocking me because I forgot to mention the AP, aren't you.
Okay...I'll give you the AP
Blockinlick
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You're mocking me because I forgot to mention the AP, aren't you.
I don't get it lol.
Also, there is espionage in Vanilla. You can create Spies that steal plans and destroy tiles, but that's it.
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AP = Apostolic Palace. It introduces a new and cheesy victory diplomatic victory condition that can be exploited. Was not designed well. It can also surprise you in other ways if you are not familiar with it. It does have some cool aspects too. And while the AP victory is deemed cheesy, it does not mean it not actually fun to win that way.
As for Espionage, it has been expanded significantly in BTS. So much so that you can basically create on economy out of it (EE). Actually offers some interesting variations on gameplay if you try the EE or incorporate it. Espionage can also be virtually ignored, although you may get nipped now and then with a tech steal or poisoned water.
I don't have much issue with that as Took does, but then I know how to deal with it.alex15
2004
Switch from Vanilla to BTS and switch difficulty from Warlord to Noble because Warlord is too easy at Warlord difficulty player having cheating advantages over AI.
At Noble AI and Player have equal advantages.
Pangea tiny is also too easy, if you want learn to play play Huge Continents with 18 civs instead.
Axe rush is not best thing for new players, intead of axe rush do normal war swordsman+archers+axes+chartiots+horse man and most important part - TONS OF CATAPULTS
i.e use stack 10 swords 5 axes 5-10 horseman/chariots and 10 catapults dont attack citys without siege weapons if you are new
At Noble AI and Player have equal advantages.
Pangea tiny is also too easy, if you want learn to play play Huge Continents with 18 civs instead.
Axe rush is not best thing for new players, intead of axe rush do normal war swordsman+archers+axes+chartiots+horse man and most important part - TONS OF CATAPULTS
i.e use stack 10 swords 5 axes 5-10 horseman/chariots and 10 catapults dont attack citys without siege weapons if you are new
Bandobras Took
Emperor
And this month's award for unhelpful post goes to . . . alex15, who after reading that a person is having trouble with Warlord difficulty and doesn't want to get the expansion, tells that person that Warlord is easy and to get an expansion.
Besides, telling a person to go swords/archers/axes/chariots/horsemen is horrible advice for vanilla. Catapults, and only catapults for attack.
Blockinlick
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And this month's award for unhelpful post goes to . . . alex15, who after reading that a person is having trouble with Warlord difficulty and doesn't want to get the expansion, tells that person that Warlord is easy and to get an expansion.
Besides, telling a person to go swords/archers/axes/chariots/horsemen is horrible advice for vanilla. Catapults, and only catapults for attack.
lol yeah... but I've already refined my playing a lot since then and I'm smashing Warlord to pieces now.
My basic strategy now is to rush 7 warriors as fast as possible, use those to pummel one AI. Then get some Iron/Copper... rush 10 Axes. Use those to either finish off what's left of that AI or to pummel a different AI. Get Catapults. Rush 12 Cats and 12 Axemen. Take 3 cities with 3 different sets of 4+4 [Axe/Cats].
I then take a rest period for about 1000 years, working from Currency all the way to Military Tradition... then gather up how ever many soldiers I need to decimate the rest of the game if I haven't already won a Domination victory by then.
I've been working my tiles a lot better now, managing which tiles are worked at which times [Full on production during war, full on growth during peace and so on]. I've also been specializing each city more. I'm having problems making a Commerce city work right [Always lack of growth] and so far I haven't had any use for a GP Farm since my goal is just to roflstomp every AI as fast as possible. So basically I end up with a couple Commerce cities that do not produce much [They maybe get me from 60 to 70% research which I guess is still great] plus a ton of fast growing Production cities that pump out units.
The only Wonders I ever build are Pyramids [I work on getting Construction and Pyramids at the same time, so that I can get Hereditary Rule and Cats simultaneously], Hanging Gardens if I'm working with Flood Plains, Herioc Epic, and West Point.
What I'm having trouble doing though, is making use of specialists. Honestly, I've never found a situation where my 3x Food + 1 Gold Farm or 3x Hammer + 1 Food tile wasn't a bigger priority than assigning a specialist.
All of that being said, I did try to move up to Noble and I failed. My problem is growth. It seems, on Noble, city growth is a slow crawl compared to Warlord. By the time I build 3 cities that can sustain themselves, get Axes + Cats, and rush someone, I'm being trailed by Civs with scores over 2500, while I sit around 1200... they got me in Techs, in Military Might, and they're definitely not as friendly lol.
For instance, Catherine asked me to join in her war with Quin Shi Haung... I was already about to attack his slanted eyed ass anyways, so I did. That pansy Catherine made peace within like 10 turns and that Chinese bastard got the upper hand on me. I tried to make peace with him constantly but he never wanted it. Then he wiped me out.
The real problem is just how slow everything progresses. I can't keep up with the AI's no matter how meticulously I micromanage everything it seems.
Bandobras Took
Emperor
Food and Granaries are absolute priorities. If you need your commerce cities to produce things, judicious use of the Slavery civic is recommended. A good rule is: if a city doesn't have a food resource to work, don't settle it. You have summed up the problem adequately: cities that don't grow suck.
Blockinlick
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Sometimes I never have much of a choice. I've been in several situations where the best possible spot to settle a second city was either a tile with a few farmable tiles and no resources or a tile with no farmable tiles and lots of resources. That situation always sucks because if I take the one with farmable tiles, it never fails that the AI snatches up the one that had the resources I could have used.
Pangaea
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I can understand that if it was far into the game and you're just backfilling or grabbing desert stone or whatever. But 2nd city? It should have food, period.
(People always come with exceptions this and exceptions that, but really, the city needs food so it can grow and provide to the empire right away. You don't want the first city you settle to weigh you down).
(People always come with exceptions this and exceptions that, but really, the city needs food so it can grow and provide to the empire right away. You don't want the first city you settle to weigh you down).
Bandobras Took
Emperor
Though even that's not an absolute, e.g. The Oracle.
Blockinlick
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Even though that's a pretty sound strategy... the AI on Noble doesn't rush to build Pyramids. Seriously, I once built them in 300 BC. Now that I got a good idea of what I'm doing, I don't have that much time to wait on Pyramids, it's something I need asap and if I can get them done at the same time that I get Construction early on, I have a massive advantage over the AI.
The core problem is building two starting cities that grow fast enough to get it done. I keep running into the same exact problem EVERY game, even when I settle on the terrains that offer optimal food. I always get slammed by sickness & unhappiness, and my cities stop growing and stop working. I even started to completely avoid the Floodplains because they were half the sickness and I still kept having the same issue. They grow so slowly and yet the AI is building Grenadiers by the time I've put my Cats/Axe army together. Idk how they're doing it.
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Bandobras Took
Emperor
For happiness, Monarchy can be your friend.
Getting to Grenadiers is actually rather easy in Vanilla (compared to BtS); if the AIs are trading with one another it's possible that they're getting there while you're stuck somewhere else in the tech tree.
Kallikrates
Prince
If the AI is teching so much faster than you on Noble you are doing some basic things wrong. Probably not enough workers/cottages and too many useless buildings in some cities.
To avoid cities outgrowing their caps build in the early phase settlers and workers and whip if necessary. Health should not really be a concern unless you are isolated. Trade food with the AI, build granaries and in bigger cities harbors, grocers. Health is self-regulating anyway as the city will stop growing once you lose food by unhealthiness.
Happiness can be more tricky, but again it should be manageable on Noble. For getting from Noble to Monarch all the old stuff in the Forum on standard strategies is really helpful and usually sufficient, unless you have really crappy land and an unlucky combination of AI opponents.
To avoid cities outgrowing their caps build in the early phase settlers and workers and whip if necessary. Health should not really be a concern unless you are isolated. Trade food with the AI, build granaries and in bigger cities harbors, grocers. Health is self-regulating anyway as the city will stop growing once you lose food by unhealthiness.
Happiness can be more tricky, but again it should be manageable on Noble. For getting from Noble to Monarch all the old stuff in the Forum on standard strategies is really helpful and usually sufficient, unless you have really crappy land and an unlucky combination of AI opponents.
Kallikrates
Prince
Some more points, because these were all things I used to do wrong or at least not flexible enough:
- Don't panic if there are not all strategic resources nearby. Don't settle the second city too far away in a food poor spot only to get copper. If you have either copper or horses within your first three cities you are usually fine at intermediate levels in the beginning. To have neither is quite rare, IMO. Rather build these cities fast and in good commerce/food spots and connect them asap for the trade route. You might expand fast enough to get to the other resource anyway or you will probably have iron within the settled area of your first 3-4 cities if you lack copper. You have to scratch the early rush, but that's not the only strategy.
- Don't rush a neighbor unless you have or can research pottery and/or writing during the war. Otherwise you might overexpand without a chance to recover your research. If you have these two techs you can get back to decent teching soon.
- Don't panic if you do not manage to get a Wonder. You may think it impossible to win without it, but this have proven untrue by expert players on high levels. But it you shoot for a wonder that's feasible do it as quickly as possible (assisted by chopping)
- Forget about the first 3 religions. If someone on your continent founds one of them it will get to you once you have open borders and you may use it for your happiness and for better diplomatic relations. If you are isolated or there is no religion on your continent you should probably try either Confucianism by oracling or self-teching CoL or Taoism by bulbing philosophy with a great scientist which you probably want to do anyway. Even on Emperor the chances are quite decent that you will be first to philosophy with a bulb. This of course depends on the presence of happiness resources. If you have enough of these you can forgo religion altogether.
- Think about diplomatic implications before converting to a state religion.
- Don't panic if there are not all strategic resources nearby. Don't settle the second city too far away in a food poor spot only to get copper. If you have either copper or horses within your first three cities you are usually fine at intermediate levels in the beginning. To have neither is quite rare, IMO. Rather build these cities fast and in good commerce/food spots and connect them asap for the trade route. You might expand fast enough to get to the other resource anyway or you will probably have iron within the settled area of your first 3-4 cities if you lack copper. You have to scratch the early rush, but that's not the only strategy.
- Don't rush a neighbor unless you have or can research pottery and/or writing during the war. Otherwise you might overexpand without a chance to recover your research. If you have these two techs you can get back to decent teching soon.
- Don't panic if you do not manage to get a Wonder. You may think it impossible to win without it, but this have proven untrue by expert players on high levels. But it you shoot for a wonder that's feasible do it as quickly as possible (assisted by chopping)
- Forget about the first 3 religions. If someone on your continent founds one of them it will get to you once you have open borders and you may use it for your happiness and for better diplomatic relations. If you are isolated or there is no religion on your continent you should probably try either Confucianism by oracling or self-teching CoL or Taoism by bulbing philosophy with a great scientist which you probably want to do anyway. Even on Emperor the chances are quite decent that you will be first to philosophy with a bulb. This of course depends on the presence of happiness resources. If you have enough of these you can forgo religion altogether.
- Think about diplomatic implications before converting to a state religion.
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