Hawk Chieftain
Prince
750 BC Screenshots.
Nero04: Skipping some levels? It's training day
- Thread starter nerovats
- Start date
CommandoBob
AbstractArt
It occurred to me today, before I saw Hawk Chieftain 's game post, that if we conquer this land mass we can get a good industrial base and not trigger the domination victory conditions.
To do this, the Orange and the Purple will have to be eliminated, or at least 'cleansed' from the continent of Spain.
Is this case of continent conquering a good idea for us?
To do this, the Orange and the Purple will have to be eliminated, or at least 'cleansed' from the continent of Spain.
Is this case of continent conquering a good idea for us?
CommandoBob
AbstractArt
Let us look at where we want to be and what it will take to get there.nerovats said:
To get to the stars we need four or five techs in the Modern Age and one small wonder. The small wonder is the Apollo Program, which can be built once Space Flight is discovered. We must Rocketry before we can know Space Flight. Satellites can be learned after Space Flight. To learn Superconductor we need to know about Space Flight and Fission. All in the modern age.
In the Industrial Age are eight optional techs that we could ignore. These techs are Advanced Flight, Amphibiuos Warfare, Fascism (in PTW?), Espionage, Communism, Nationalism, Ironclads and Sanitation. Of these, only Sanitation and Espionage could benefit us. Sanitation because we could build hosptials and Espionage because we could plant spies in other nations.
The Middles Ages also has eight optional techs, of which Economics and Military Tradition may interest us.
The Ancient Times has three optional techs and we have one, Literature, and we want to get one more, Republic.
So, to lay some groundwork for latter discussion, there are techs we can ignore as we head for the stars. Researching these techs only us slows down.
My first thought is this: we should ignore most (not all) of the optional techs. Ones that would benefit us directly would be Republic (less corrupt government), Economics (Great Wonder:Smiths Trading Co.) and Sanitation (hospitals and city growth past size 12).
If we can research an optional tech for a monopoly and then trade it around, let's do it. That helps us.
This is only a starting point. Any other thoughts?
Claiming the continent would help as then we can do with less military to defend. Landings usually come with just a couple of units. Strategically places knights/cavalry will be able to fight them off. But when and where to attack firsth.
I think it was not a good idea to postpone the discovery of CoL. At start of HC's turns set it was 7 turns now still 2 turns. The almost riot could have been dealt with differently.
Techs look ok to me, C-Bob. I'm till missing some wonders tho.
I think it was not a good idea to postpone the discovery of CoL. At start of HC's turns set it was 7 turns now still 2 turns. The almost riot could have been dealt with differently.
Techs look ok to me, C-Bob. I'm till missing some wonders tho.
CommandoBob
AbstractArt
I will update my wonder thoughts this evening. You are right, I did miss some. I relied too much on experience and did not research them enough.nerovats said:
CommandoBob
AbstractArt
Modern Age
In the Modern Age we need to build the Apollo Program (Spaceflight), a small wonder, to go to the stars. We need to build (defensively) the United Nations, to make sure no vote for world leader is ever taken.
By the time we get to the Modern Age our science should be fairly strong. If it is not, we could consider building the SETI program (Computers) or the Internet (Miniaturization), both which boosts our science output. Of the two, the Internet is more powerful. It puts a Research Lab in each city on the continent of Spain. SETI program doubles the science output of the city it is built. This can be a good boost, if this city also has Newton's University and Copernicus's Observatory.
Industrial Age
The Industrial Age has only three wonders and we want two of them: Theory of Evolution (Scientific Method) and Hoover Dam (Electronics). ToE gives two free science advances. Hoover Dam puts a Hydro Plant in each city on the continent of Spain. Both good things to have.
Middle Ages
The Middle Ages has lots of wonders, nine to be exact. Spain needs three of them and would like three more.
Spain needs
To boost her economy Spain needs Smiths Trading Company (Economics -opt). All commercial city improvements now are maintenance free. This is an optional tech but well worth it.
To boost her science Spain needs two things: Newton's University (Theory of Gravity) and Copernicus's Observatory (Astronomy). The techs are separated by Physics, which in turn requires many techs. So it is possible to head for Astronomy (Theology -> Education -> Astronomy) and then get to Physics (Invention -> Gunpowder -> Chemistry) and then learn Theory of Gravity. And the benefit? Each of these wonders doubles the science output of the city it is built in. Both in one city, the effects multiply.
Spain wants
These first two are defensive builds and may not be possible in our game. We would like to build Sun Tzu's Art of War (Feudalism) and Leonardo's Workshop (Invention). Both wonders are boosts to people and AI that like to conduct diplomacy with a pointy-stick. If Spain has them, no one else can have them.
To keep our people happy we would like the Sistine Chapel (Theology). It doubles the affects of Cathedrals, which we can build cheap.
Spain could also build the small wonder Wall Street (5 Banks) to increase cash flow.
Ancient Times
In the near future we need to consider where to place the Forbidden Palace (8 cities). This will act as a second capital and begin a new RCP wherever it is.
The only great wonder worth considering for Spain is the Great Lighthouse (Map Making). This wonder does two things pretty significant early in the game. Galleys can now survive in sea tiles, not just coastal tiles, AND have their movement increased by 1. The extra speed and sea survival means Spain could find new civs before England and the Vikings and use that to our advantage.
The Shopping List
Modern Age
Need: Apollo Program (SW), United Nations
Want: SETI Program, Internet
Industrial Age
Need: Theory of Evolution, Hoover Dam
Middle Ages
Need: Smith's Trading Company, Newton's University, Copernicus's Observatory
Want: Sun Tzu's Art of War, Leonardo's Workshop. Sistine Chapel, Wall Street (SW)
Ancient Times
Need: Forbidden Palace (SW)
Want: Great Lighthouse
Box Score
Need: six great wonders, two small wonders
Want: six great wonders, one small wonder
Key Question
Great in theory; what about in practice?
In the Modern Age we need to build the Apollo Program (Spaceflight), a small wonder, to go to the stars. We need to build (defensively) the United Nations, to make sure no vote for world leader is ever taken.
By the time we get to the Modern Age our science should be fairly strong. If it is not, we could consider building the SETI program (Computers) or the Internet (Miniaturization), both which boosts our science output. Of the two, the Internet is more powerful. It puts a Research Lab in each city on the continent of Spain. SETI program doubles the science output of the city it is built. This can be a good boost, if this city also has Newton's University and Copernicus's Observatory.
Industrial Age
The Industrial Age has only three wonders and we want two of them: Theory of Evolution (Scientific Method) and Hoover Dam (Electronics). ToE gives two free science advances. Hoover Dam puts a Hydro Plant in each city on the continent of Spain. Both good things to have.
Middle Ages
The Middle Ages has lots of wonders, nine to be exact. Spain needs three of them and would like three more.
Spain needs
To boost her economy Spain needs Smiths Trading Company (Economics -opt). All commercial city improvements now are maintenance free. This is an optional tech but well worth it.
To boost her science Spain needs two things: Newton's University (Theory of Gravity) and Copernicus's Observatory (Astronomy). The techs are separated by Physics, which in turn requires many techs. So it is possible to head for Astronomy (Theology -> Education -> Astronomy) and then get to Physics (Invention -> Gunpowder -> Chemistry) and then learn Theory of Gravity. And the benefit? Each of these wonders doubles the science output of the city it is built in. Both in one city, the effects multiply.
Spain wants
These first two are defensive builds and may not be possible in our game. We would like to build Sun Tzu's Art of War (Feudalism) and Leonardo's Workshop (Invention). Both wonders are boosts to people and AI that like to conduct diplomacy with a pointy-stick. If Spain has them, no one else can have them.
To keep our people happy we would like the Sistine Chapel (Theology). It doubles the affects of Cathedrals, which we can build cheap.
Spain could also build the small wonder Wall Street (5 Banks) to increase cash flow.
Ancient Times
In the near future we need to consider where to place the Forbidden Palace (8 cities). This will act as a second capital and begin a new RCP wherever it is.
The only great wonder worth considering for Spain is the Great Lighthouse (Map Making). This wonder does two things pretty significant early in the game. Galleys can now survive in sea tiles, not just coastal tiles, AND have their movement increased by 1. The extra speed and sea survival means Spain could find new civs before England and the Vikings and use that to our advantage.
The Shopping List
Modern Age
Need: Apollo Program (SW), United Nations
Want: SETI Program, Internet
Industrial Age
Need: Theory of Evolution, Hoover Dam
Middle Ages
Need: Smith's Trading Company, Newton's University, Copernicus's Observatory
Want: Sun Tzu's Art of War, Leonardo's Workshop. Sistine Chapel, Wall Street (SW)
Ancient Times
Need: Forbidden Palace (SW)
Want: Great Lighthouse
Box Score
Need: six great wonders, two small wonders
Want: six great wonders, one small wonder
Key Question
Great in theory; what about in practice?
BeefBayford
Going Steady
nerovats said:
I don't even have Civ4 yet
. Who's next on the roster? I'll play a few if nobody else is around...
CommandoBob
AbstractArt
BeefBayford said:I don't even have Civ4 yet
You will not cry alone!My machine will not even handle C3C!
CommandoBob
AbstractArt
Yeah, it is big shopping list. One by one, every wonder makes sense, but when we look at everything together we havenerovats said:
'price-sticker-shock'. I think the game will actually decide which ones we get.
azzaman333
meh
got it. will play at about 7:30 pm GMT +11. If anyone can play before then, go before me.
CommandoBob
AbstractArt
From Hawk Chieftain's screenshots, it looks like only the Vikings and the English inhabit the continent of Spain. They will be forced to seek residence elsewhere.nerovats said:
By the shape of our land, the Vikings will have to be dealt with first. This will be a land war for us, with an occasional coastal raiding by them. It looks like we have to wade through a jungle belt north of the Viking cities. If we have horses, this is not their best attacking terrain. The jungle belt has deterred the Vikings from heading our way and focused their attention on the English. That will soon change as all of the good land south of the jungle belt is taken by them or the English. Both will soon be heading north.
We can stop their expansion by having a Military Alliance with England agaisnt the Vikings. They are close to each other and so will most likely fight each other. No settlers created due to warfare, I hope. We expand southwards quickly and set up a perimeter of cities and armed thugs to protect our border.
Right now I do not think we are strong enough to attack the Vikings, even with English help. We need to expand and then conquer.
I have a plan. A good one, maybe. It has three steps.
The Plan
In Step One, we sign an MA with the Vikings against the English. We cannot really attack the English so our risk is small. Her UU, the Man-o-War, is a long ways off in the future. Her navy will be galleys. So for twenty turns the Orange and Purple turn each other black and blue. While we make veteran units and move them south.
In Step Two, we sign an MA with the English against the Vikings when the first MA expires. Will England want money? Probably. Do we pay. Yes. Will it do England any good? No, not a bit. This time we attack and we should be very successful, since I am hoping that all the Viking units will next to the English. Their northern towns should be weakly defended.
In Step Three we finish off the Vikings. This may take less than 20 turns. If it takes longer we do not sign a second MA with Elizabeth, unless things have turned out very badly. Once we finish off the Vikings we will start Latinizing the English and push them every southward, until they no longer have a presence in Spain.
We do not make peace unless we can get a great deal from our victim. A bunch of gold and three or four techs. Delaying the conquest only makes the conquest harder.
This is only a plan and, as always, it is up for discussion and revision and rewriting.
On higher levels it more important to follow a plan. When going to war make an 100% effert. There's not a lot of room to war and settle and research. When the ai's are removed from our island there will be enough time to settle the gaps. We could also stay peacefull and become the tech broker. Then we need to find the other civ's first.
CommandoBob
AbstractArt
nerovats said:
At Chieftain it was possible to do everything and do it all at once. Those days are gone.
Is one of the basic differences between Chieftain and Emperor the idea of only having one main priority at a time? For example, in this game, at this time in the game, I am understanding you to say that we can focus on making war or making cities or making science. One of these must have top priority. We do not forget about the others, but they are of much less importance. All three can not be the main focus of attention.
Am I understanding you correctly?
Gee, CommandoBob (also known as CannotSeeForestBecauseOfTrees), why didn't you think of that!
Hawk Chieftain
Prince
I think that at this time we should continue expanding. We need to to research Map Making next so we can explore, trade, and make friends. By that time, either the Vikings will initiate war with us, or we can start on them. If we continue building swordsmen & archers with some of our core, then we should be able to take on the Vikings.
azzaman333
meh
azzaman333 said:
Unfortunately, i was buried in homework on Friday. I wont be able to play fo a while.
CommandoBob
AbstractArt
Got the save and it opened OK. Looked at map briefly; did not do more than that.nerovats said:
CoL in 2 for a monopoly; trade it for all we can get.
Begin to research Republic. Same rate?
Hmm, the Vikings are closer than I thought from the mini-map. Should be OK.
Only one settler being built in Madrid - OK - will not change.
Four cities making swords.
However;
Zaragoza (1) making barracks, due in 40, grows in 10
Seville (2) making granary, due in 15, grows in 6
Valencia (1) making barracks, due in 37, grows in 17
No problem with Seville and the granary; it could become a second settler pump (I think) and allow Madrid to build improvements.
Zaragoza and Valencia building barracks, this makes me uneasy.
Valencia, on the east coast, would be better served making a worker, connecting the incense, and then connecting with the rest of the empire. We do not plan to invade another continent, so a barracks here seems to be unneeded.
Zaragoza, being closer to the bad guys, and currently with bad guys in the vicintity, can be better justified. Yet I think a worker might be better. The terrain around the city lacks a bonus of any sort (as far as I can tell from screenshots) and the bonuses around the city would require a culture expansion to get them.
Any thoughts?
Similar threads
- Locked
